The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

I'm wondering if those "sex + profession" tropes should be in-universe.

Well maybe maybe not. Different professions historically do have different connotations as far as Wish-Fulfillment and Fanservice. And can have different In-Universe consequences as well. And some are just so common that my instinct is that they deserve their own trope.

Definitely need a wick check

Also, the storytelling roles of In-Universe fanservice and out of universe fanservice can be drastically different. I don't think that would be the right move at all. Pinging ~Larkmarn about this too, as they wanted to work on these tropes.

Both Windows To The Soul and Personal Appearance Tropes are easy jobs so we could do them before and then Hot Scoop. Creepy Blue Eyes on the other hand is a big project - ~eievie.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

If Windows To The Soul gets a rework, I think it's name should be change since it might get confuse with Windows of the Soul.

See, the thing about many (most) of the "Sexy job" tropes is that they're usually not even really "sexy reporter" so much as "she is a reporter. She is also sexy." There's no connection between the two. Especially since, in movies, anime, TV shows, hell media in general ''most characters will be sexy." We like looking at attractive people so in a visual medium, chances are a character is going to be attractive. Even if the character is considered hot In-Universe, I fail to see how "happens to be hot and happens to be in a certain profession" is a trope unless that profession genuinely has ties to attractiveness.

Now something like Hospital Hottie, now that's a trope. These people are hotter because of their job since things like "nurses are sexy" and "women want doctors" are classic cliches. But even that page is filled to the brim with "sexy and a doctor" or "plays a doctor and I think they're sexy."

Let me put it this way. A character being a profession and being attractive isn't a trope. But a particular profession being fetishised is a trope.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:23:56 PM by Larkmarn

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Yes that last point is what i was getting at and is key to any further discussion of sexy professions.

A character being a profession and being attractive isn't a trope. But a particular profession being fetishised is a trope.

But is also where the In Unvierse Out of universe can get messy. Where to tow the line as far as the creators designing a character to play into fetish, more so than just 'characters in visual media are always at least above average in attractivenesss'

edited 25th Feb '17 3:59:46 PM by acrobox

How about a person who attractive to a person because of their profession?

In that case (And I assume it to be the case) I can see Meido, French Maid and Hospital Hottie being spared, but the rest of the tropes might not be. However I think a different limitation should be in place to qualify. Mainly:

• Limit this to professions that have uniforms (which might exclude reporters, and maybe models)
• Have the uniforms be fetisihized one way or another, while also be worn by the person who would be in the cossreponding profession.

BTW how does Sexy Whatever Outfit fit into all of this?

edited 25th Feb '17 4:35:39 PM by MorningStar1337

It depends on the actual trope there.

There are many profession outfits that don't really exist anymore in real life outside of cosplay and fetishy stuff such as French Maid, as well as other stereotypes attached such as a Swedish or French accent and teasing behavior.

Meido has speech patterns, personality and such. It has a lot more to it than just appearances. You don't need to be attractive, hell I would say being hot hurts the stereotype.

Sexy Whatever Outfit seems fine to me, they take some stereotypical cookie cutter outfit and make it sexier and shows more skin. What is the problem with it?

On Hot Scoop well its kind of a standard that reporters have to be attractive in general, 500 pound Gonk fat guys don't look good on camera.

Windows To The Soul is a subtrope to Meaningful Appearances, a very underused and needs to be pimped subtrope but still. I didnt know it existed. It needs a massive expansion to include stuff like Exhausted Eye Bags and Dull Eyes of Unhappiness.

edited 25th Feb '17 6:49:37 PM by Memers

Windows To The Soul needs to be rewritten to focus on personality or "the soul." As it stands the definition dwells on Elemental Eye Colors way too much

edited 25th Feb '17 6:54:29 PM by acrobox

Since Hot Scoop got the bulk of the discussion now, I've shifted the thread over to that. I'd suggest that Windows To The Soul, Personal Appearance Tropes and Icy Blue Eyes (following some advice I got in moderator chat) follow then in that order. Later we can do other tropes such as Green Eyes, Hello, Attorney! and Grey Eyes.

Anyhow, in my mind the actual trope behind Hot Scoop is that cast characters tend to be more attractive than Real Life average people. This is part due to fanservice, casting (gender) conventions and attractive people being more likely to become actors.

This isn't specific for a given profession, although in some professions (such as medicine) it'd be an unwise thing/Artistic License to do. Tropes for these can stay as subtropes, I believe. In other circumstances the profession does not matter and then we want the profession-neutral supertrope.

Such a trope can't have straight examples as they'd become a bunch of meaningless fawning. Only lampshade hangings, discussed, conversed examples and more generally examples where the pattern is explicitly referenced in-story or by Word of God.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

... Why did this thread get moved from Long-Term Projects to Trope Repair Shop?

In other words, it's essentially one of the Tropes in Aggregate like Heroic Build and Most Common Superpower?

edited 26th Feb '17 4:18:02 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Aye. There was a previous TLP on the matter.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Nothing really, I just think that SWO would be the most likely place the examples for the Sexy+profession tropes that would get cut might go.

Regarding this I wonder how many of the tropes like Hot Scoop are Tropes in Aggregate?

That is a cosplay trope though. To paraphrase Barney from How I Met Your Mother 'people don't dress up as a witch anymore for Halloween past a certain age it's a sexy witch instead.

Things like Hospital Hottie there does need to be an element of fan service, such as a Walking Shirtless Scene or showing up to work at a high school spilling out of your top◊, but it's usually a bit more than that with some kind of flirting and things like that.

edited 26th Feb '17 7:46:40 AM by Memers

To play devils advocate in defense of Hot Scoop, i will say that journalism is a profession where hotness matters because In-Universe they could be an 'attractive person that gets put on screen.' Like being an actress or a model, particularly for female journalists, there tends to be a lot more attention given to the attractive ones. And they sometimes use that attractiveness to get closer to people they are going after for a story.

See also, latin american weather ladies who pretty much use it as a modelling career.

That seems legit but not necessarily profession specific.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Maybe something like Attractiveness Pet, or Good Looking Privileges, Look Good Get Noticed, Because Theyre Hot? to generalize.

Getting cast cause your hot is a thing and a stereotype for news media, like say Becky aka Boats! Boats! Boats! in How I Met Your Mother.

However it isn't exclusive to news media at all.

So, my impression is that we'd need to discuss three concepts:

• Characters in fiction tend to be attractive.
• Professions prefer attractive employees (Sex Sells, Fanservice Cover and Sexy Packaging are related concepts)
• Attractiveness where it is not plausible

Hard question is how to trope them. I don't really like having dedicated pages for all three...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

even if you troped the first one, it would probably have to be an exampleless Trope in Aggregate.

We have related tropes for the first one. Hollywood Homely, Hollywood Pudgy, etc, are about how there are no ugly people in Hollywood, so "ugly" characters would be slightly above-average in real life. Maybe that just needs a supertrope. My first thought is to call it There Are No Ugly People In Hollywood, but that would attract aversions of ugly actors.

I have no idea how the third one would be troped. Like a mine worker who looks like he stepped off of a magazine cover, I guess? Some of that is covered under Beauty Is Never Tarnished, but for the part I think it's too subjective to bother with.

Hollywood Beauty Standards?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Personally, I think Hot Scoop is redundant with Intrepid Reporter and that the only way to salvage it is to alter the definition to something like "love interest professions". As the page itself says "it's a good way to introduce a love interest who has a plausible reason for following the hero into danger" so the report aspect serves the same purpose as a Macguffin. It doesn't matter what the profession is as long as it serves the narrative purpose of bringing the two together.

Eh? That seems like something completely different to me. Hot Scoop does not require being a love interest, and what they do on the job is off point as welll.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman