Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
Blapper of Water
I deleted the folder. There were some commented-out "examples" (dating back to 2012), but they may have contributed to this nonsensical "loophole." I added the following: "If you have a desire to add a Real Life example (or multiple examples, discuss your desire at the Real Life maintenance thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800"
- Why not? There is a Real Life group out there called the National Bolsheviks.
- Got dumped to the Analysis page, needs to be more noticeably linked. Adding my own example that is rigorously unconventional. This trope is about multiple "evil" political movements getting tossed together, right?
- What about the fact that the Nazis actually did work together with anti-Semitic Muslim extremists during World War 2, to the point of actively trying to coax disaffected Muslims to declare Jihad on Britain (which held colonial dominance over Egypt and India at the time) in hopes of gaining a further ally in the fight?
Also, should Analysis.Commie Nazis even exist? Do we care? Is policy at least okay with it (given that the page is No Real Life Examples Please)?
edited 21st Feb '17 5:56:00 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Sorcerer in training
I have to say, that's a different technique to sneak RL examples pass the Hive Mind detection.
That folder name in your post is very amusing. 
I wouldn't cry if that Analysis page is zorched.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Blapper of Water
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thanks. I was just a bit exhausted with how obvious it was that these tropers knew better but put the examples in there anyway.
So, I just went through all of the tropes listed under "Gossip and Stereotypes" to look for similar loopholes and attempts to hide people's booboos. I looked for "Other," "Real Life" coming back, and pretty much any folder that isn't like the regular media folders.
- Under "Real Life"
- Everybody Owns a Ford (slipped through in 2015, I guess)
- Under "Other"
- All Germans Are Nazis: Theodore N. Kaufman's book influencing Dr. Joseph Goebbels; an article from the Onion.
- Gossipy Hens: Posters in WWII era about not gossipping because spies might overhear you.
- Under "Fashion" / "Fashion Industry":
- Sensual Slavs
- Snark Bait: This trope also has an "Automobiles" folder. Do we trope cars? I don't get it.
- Under "Comedy":
- Violent Glaswegian: It's all about Billy Connolly; it's troping him as a RL person and not as his persona, either. "He also developed a reputation for punching journalists" seems less like his persona and just gossipping. Considering this trope is under the "NRLEP because of gossipping," I can't help but think this should get cut.
- Under "Sporting Event":
- Wounded Gazelle Gambit: "Notorious troublemaker Reggie Miller"; "Terry Bradshaw was famous for this"
- Under "Jokes" (I did not check every jokes folder, LOL):
- Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys: There's a weird label at the top of this folder. "Keep in mind that this section just archives jokes related to this trope as other people tell them, and should NOT be used for arguing about how right or wrong they are."
- Under "LARP"
- Crazy Cat Lady: It just has one example: "The newly added DM Jerem' for French Vampire LARP 7 De Sang loves cats so much that the community's facebook page was taken over by the followers of the Kitten Imperator."
- Under "Other Media":
There are more that I found, but I don't want to say more about them in the thread until I get a better look at them. Please remember that this was only under the "Gossip and Stereotypes" folder.
Also, are NRLEP tropes permitted to have images of RL people? The Stoner and Those Wacky Nazis both do, which is why I'm asking.
edited 21st Feb '17 7:34:25 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
I'm having trouble opening those folders, let's see if this works.
Oversized Garden Ornament
That "jokes" folder under Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys:
Are we really suppose to "archive" jokes as trope examples? A joke that is a part of a work is of course just like any other part of a work: if a character in a show makes a joke about a RL person, it's just like any other fictional reference to that person.
But "jokes as other tell them"? If that is what it sounds like - real-life people telling jokes about other real-life people - it's just gossip, isn't it?
The example of the WW 2 posters in Gossipy Hens is about an usage of the trope, not about a real life situation, so I kept it when I sent the trope to the list.
Calling Nice Jewish Boy (18,3).
Ace Gamer
Plenty of pages have jokes sections. It's hardly unique to that page; This Index Is a Joke is a whole index of pages with jokes on them.
Also: The Onion is not real life. The problem with that All Germans Are Nazis example is that it's a violation of Weblinks Are Not Examples, not that it's a "real life" example.
ETA: Fixed the Onion example. Not sure what to do with the other "other" example.
edited 22nd Feb '17 3:43:41 PM by MissMokushiroku
Blapper of Water
I looked at over a hundred pages in the span of maybe an hour and a half? Maybe two hours? Two and a half? So the example with The Onion slipped through. I didn't really have the mental energy to discern the difference between "satire article" and "genuine article."
Also, my comment had nothing to do with the fact that it was a section on jokes. There are about 20 pages within "Gossip and Stereotyping" that have such sections. My question was about that specific page's section on jokes. But yes, RE: , we do archive "jokes." Whether that's because it's just fun or because it's technically a form of modern oral story telling, idk. le shrug
edited 22nd Feb '17 5:59:36 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
Jokes are, strictly speaking, very short works, like a haiku, a simple sketch, or a logotype.
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Oversized Garden Ornament
OK, I just haven't really noticed any such Jokes sections before. And I agree that we can view jokes as very short works - that's one of the reasons I was asking.
I still think that RL jokes about RL people are gossip, though.
edited 23rd Feb '17 9:14:45 AM by GnomeTitan
These are the voyages...
Depends on the joke and the format, I think. SNL or a stand-up comic's routine are probably better references than r/jokes or Facebook, for example.
No, the other one.
The thing about jokes is that they're made up, and you're not expected to take them seriously or to be accurate. However, if there are jokes that do have parts of them that are meant to be accurate that fall under gossip or whatever, then those can be cut. It's something I really want to see a widespread problem to ban whole sections of.
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Oversized Garden Ornament
I get your point, but that attitude to jokes is troubling; it's the "just kidding" defence, which is often used to excuse both hate speech and slander. And jokes can be worse than "straight" gossip; if a person has a handicap, pointing it out in public can be hurtful, but making jokes about it can be outright cruel.
Thisis not directed at you and I realize that you didn't mean to excuse anything like that - in fact, that is probably exactly what you meant should be cut. I'm just making the point that we shouldn't be more tolerant about discussing RL people just because it's made in the form of jokes.
edited 23rd Feb '17 1:22:27 PM by GnomeTitan
Sorcerer in training
We can only handle them joke by joke, as we find them. Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement can be applied, and can rules against hate speech.
A good response to 'just joking' involving bad behavior is 'that is still inappropriate'. Focus on the behavior, not excuses or defenses.
edited 23rd Feb '17 7:15:04 PM by Candi
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
No, the other one.
I was arguing how they're not real, not anything about how hurtful they are.
If you say it's not directed at me, don't use wordings like "that attitude". It's the equivalence of the "no offence, but" excuse, as well as a slippery slope argument, as you went all the way down to hate speech, which is banned by our rules.
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Oversized Garden Ornament
OK, I guess that turned out slightly disingenuous, because the argument was originally directed partly at you after all. I do find it troublesome when people claim that jokes are just jokes and should be treated with more tolerance than direct speech, and I interpreted your argument that way the first time I read it.
Then I re-read your posts, reconsidered, and understood that was not what you meant. I edited my post to make it clear that I didn't think you were promoting "that attitude", but I bungled it and made it look like I still was implying that. I apologize for that.
To make it clear: I'm troubled by the attitude that "jokes are jokes" but I am not accusing you of promoting it.
edited 24th Feb '17 4:40:19 AM by GnomeTitan
"In distress", my ass.
Pending:
- "Just Joking" Justification: Added 21st Feb '17 at 10:57:23 AM, 3:1 (16)
- Shirtless Scene: Added 19th Feb '17 at 09:10:20 PM, 2.17:1 (19)
- Jealous Parent: Added 21st Feb '17 at 02:46:06 PM, 1:2 (6)
(Don't really have anything to contribute to the joking discussion, just wanted to make it clearer about trends for votes, as I'm not sure what JJJ and SS were doing previously as far as voting goes.)
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Caling "Just Joking" Justification (15y, 4n).
The Maiden Name Debate Real Life section is mostly general examples of laws/customs from different countries (some of which are discussed in the main article text), a list of famous women who did not take their husbands' names, or inversions where men took their wives' names. Is this really tropeable, or is this PSOC?
"In distress", my ass.
Well, I trimmed down some of the generics in Maiden, plus nuked that inversion entry for Weblinks Are Not Examples reasons. Still looks kinda headachy, in particular the part talking about cultures, but I wasn't quite ready to cut even deeper than I did, since I just got off work (never something resulting in higher brain activity 
). At the moment I'm undecided about whether it really needs to be made NRLEP.
—
It looks like Shirtless Scene has more or less stabilized, gaining a "yes" vote in the 34 hours or so since my last post, so I'm calling it to make NRLEP. Added 19th Feb '17 at 09:10:20 PM, 2.33:1 (20). Redirecting to the main SS page, as 156 inbounds is too many for simply cutlisting.
Jealous Parent hasn't stabilized yet, so going to wait a while before calling either way. Added 21st Feb '17 at 02:46:06 PM, 1.2:1 (11)
edited 25th Feb '17 7:31:25 PM by Nohbody
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Sorcerer in training
I can see how culture might tie into the Maiden Name Debate trope, but I don't see how the culture examples fit the trope.
I would think it would be easier to just have 'this is how culture applies' in the examples where it's topical.
That description strikes me as being half trope and half Useful Notes, but that's another thread.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Zzzzzzzzzz
How names are handled on marriage is exactly the sort of thing that the Analysis pages on tropes is for.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
No, the other one.
I find that a lot of entries are just examples of what the results are. The trope as far as I understand, from the actual description, is about the actual debate or decision about what to do with the name, rather than just the result. That results in either non-examples or ZCEs.
Also agreeing with the Analysis page thing.
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Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
That folder should be removed. Real Life is Real Life.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.