Podcast / Talkernate History

"Hello, and welcome, to Talkernate History! The podcast where we,"
"Matt,"
"And Max, talk about works of alternate history, alternate history scenarios and history in general."

Talkernate History is an irregular Alternate History Podcast hosted by friends Matt and Max.

The two hosts spend each episode having a long, freeform discussion on topics relating to general Alternate History (e.g. German Victory in WW1, Cold War Hot, Bad Alternate History), specific AH media (The Man in the High Castle, Sliders, How Few Remain, Kaiserreich, Deep Blue Fleet, user-submitted stories and others), or regular history (the Falklands War, Spanish Civil War, Desert Storm etc.).

The chats are lively, passionate, warm, humorous, and chock-full of tangents (to the point two entire episodes have been dedicated to Extended Tangents), showcasing the creators' interest in (especially American) history, film, AH media, bad movies, and general interesting trivia.

You can listen to them on SoundCloud here, and also on YouTube, where each episode contains visual accompaniment in the form of slideshows with additional clarifications, corrections, and humour.

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This podcast provides examples of:

• invokedAlternative Character Interpretation: Parodied: Matt insists that Shaquille O'Neal's character in Kazaam is a psychopathic monster who crushes people into basketballs.
• Artistic License – History: Critiqued when actual history is being (supposedly) presented. The Spike TV Alternate History Special is the most prominent example, going from the small details (misplaced weapons and racially integrated units on the beaches of Normandy), to the dunderheaded misunderstanding of the capabilities of the Nazi nuclear programme and the overhyping of certain technologies that shall go unnamed.^note It's the Me262, ok.
• Backstory: Matt and especially Max sometimes explain how they stumbled upon a piece of media, like a book with a ridiculous cover, or one of their previous discussions of the topic at hand.
• Berserk Button: Nonsensical historical revisionism.
  • Also, general historical illiteracy and incompetence of writers and educators.
• Childhood Friends: Matt and Max have known each other since before college.
• Deconstruction: Often happens with blatantly unrealistic and stupid AH scenarios, accompanied by prodigious two-pronged snark and exasperation. Most prominently seen in the Spike Tv Alternate History Special, Deep Blue Fleet and Wild Wild West episodes.
• Epic Movie: The Director's Cut of Gods and Generals is the one discussed, and its excessive length and padding (especially the maligned and cut John Wilkes Booth scenes) are frequently criticised and made fun of.
• invokedEpileptic Trees: Matt believes Good Burger to be an allegory for America's treatment of the mentally disabled.
• Irregular Series: Even with months-old gaps between episodes, the series had uploaded steadily for more than a decade.
• Lampshade Hanging: Their tendency to run off on long tangents is occasionally highlighted, to be reined in and the main discussion to be brought back on track. Occasionally there is a lampshade on the lampshade, where the particularly interesting tangent is consciously continued for a bit longer.
  • After telling Matt that Patton's birthplace is in California, Max asks himself "Why do I know this?". Matt replies:
  Matt: Because you're on Talkernate History, Max.
  • Similarly, after talking about the meaning of Paraguay's capital city's name:
  Matt: Trivia day, guys!
• Long-Runners: The first episode, on the American Civil War, was posted on the 25th of January 2014. The podcast has continued, posting irregularly, since.
• Lost Common Knowledge: Lamented regarding the Library of Alexandria and various other historical works that have been lost to time.
  • Also discussed regarding the lack of sources for Ancient events as opposed to modern ones (the few available being grossly biased). Emperor Justinian's court historian, Procopius, and his insane Secret History is brought up as an example of a sole biased work having the potential to colour the entire world's perception of a historical individual in a negative manner.
• Malicious Misnaming: President Rutherfraud Hayes (referencing the Corrupt Bargain that let him become President after a deadlock in exchange for ending Reconstruction), though in jest.
• Pet-Peeve Trope: Both Matt and Max reflexively dislike fantasy (magic especially) and certain science-fiction elements (like Psychic Powers, Steampunk in general, and Alien Space Bats) in their Alternate History, and will gloss over stories or episodes featuring them. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste, but sometimes they argue the inclusions of such elements turns a work into something stupid for seemingly no reason.
• Pun-Based Title: They talk, and it's Alternate History: Talkernate History!
• Reality Is Unrealistic: They discuss how there were spectators picnicking near the first Battle of Bull Run, as they assumed it would be the only battle of the Civil War, and how this was not included in American Civil War movies - it would have seemed too ridiculous to the audience.
• Real Life Writes the Plot: The Deep Blue Fleet episode is the only one hosted exclusively by Max, as Matt was out of town. He spent the episode summarizing the plot of the (untranslated) anime and highlighting its inaccuracies, No Celebrities Were Harmed versions of Historical Domain Characters, and blatant pro-Imperial Japan revisionism.
• invokedRooting for the Empire: Matt admitted that he rooted for the humans in Avatar because he's not a "big blue alien".
• Rousing Speech: Mocked in every instance in Gods and Generals.
• Running Gag: Several have accumulated over the years:
  • Both creators being American Civil War buffs, there are topics which always come up when the conflict is discussed:
    • Stonewall Jackson's weirdness and awkwardness: his love of lemons, the fact his students hated him, and his hypochondria (for instance, sitting ram-rod straight on a chair so his organs wouldn't come out of alignment).
    • The Guns of the South is always mentioned, sometimes being treated as historical fact.
    • A shapeshifter messing with and playing both sides of the Civil War.^Explanation Stephen Lang played Union commander George E. Pickett in Gettysburg and Confederate General Stonewall Jackson in Gods and Generals. The two were played by different people in the other movies, leading to noticeable Other Darrins.
  • "This man's skin is very fair, and it sunburns easily. The readers gotta know that!"^Explanation One of Harry Turtledove's characters is constantly mentioned using Zinc oxide for his ailment. Every time he appears, across several books in Timeline-191.
  • George C. Scott having replaced the historical George S. Patton as the real Patton in people's mind.
  • Calling a bad movie a "joint", referencing the Tagline "a Spike Lee joint".
  • The Teapot Dome Scandal: initially mentioned as an important but thoroughly forgotten and irrelevant scandal of The Roaring '20s, jokes about its insignificance kept popping up, culminating in an episode dedicated to the event and era surrounding it.
    • "Our boy" Warren Gamaliel Harding's rampant infidelity and drunkenness, general incompetence, and obliviousness and support for his subordinates' shady dealings (especially Albert Bacon Fall, the only person convicted for the above).
  • Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis having sent Max's grandfather a fruit basket.
  • S&M Stirling's love of giant Americas, Theodore Roosevelt, steam engines, and lesbian sex and kickboxing (also his refusal to speak about The Draka books).
  • Jewish Ho Chi Minh (Ho Chi Mensch).^Explanation A short story in one of the compilations was about a Genghis Khan who converted himself and his Empire to Judaism. This was extended to other historical figures by Max, as they both agreed it was an absurd (but entertaining) premise.
  • WHO - IS - DEADLIEST?^Explanation A reference to the ridiculous and bombastic series Deadliest Warrior, brought up when a joke about a duel or fight between unlikely people appears.
    • Alexander Hamilton "getting his whig split".
  • What if Constant Rebecque Had Obeyed Wellington's Order of 7 pm, 15 June 1815, and Abandoned Quatre Bras?^Explanation The title of a short story. Used to mock overly intricate and minutiae-driven AH works, with hints of Self-Deprecation.
  • The History Channel having abdicated its responsibilities and plunged into inanities and nonsense (see below).
  • Ancient Aliens, dirigibles, overuse of Me262's in Nazi victory scenarios, and other mainstays of Alternate History media. Once after mentioning one of them Max lampshaded this by saying that they got their bases covered for the episode.
• invokedShout-Out: To various historical books and documentaries.
  • Throat Discs are very good (not paid).
• Shown Their Work: Relevant books about historical and military matters are bought up when appropriate (often in the form of "I've been reading..."). The entire bibliography for the Spanish Civil War episode is even presented.
  • Dates and places of birth of important (and less so) people, as well as details of important military actions, are treated as common knowledge.
• Sliding Scale of Alternate History Plausibility: Both Matt and Max fall firmly on the Hard-Hard/Soft side of the spectrum in their preferences, preferring realistic (though not overly rivet-counting) works, or at least those which can maintain Suspension of Disbelief in spite of illogical underlying assumptions (The Man in the High Castle being, for them, a prime example of Soft AH done right). While they do enjoy occasional wackiness, blatant nonsense or SF/fantasy elements are a pet-peeve of theirs (see Pet-Peeve Trope).
• Take Over the World: Thoroughly deconstructed in the Wild Wild West episode.
  'Matt: What's your bureaucracy gonna look like? What's your command and control structure gonna look like? What sort of currency are you using? What's gonna be your official language? How are you gonna operate this? How are you gonna make sure everyone toes the line all the time?"
• Take That!: Jokes about real people:
  • Max used to cut funny Garfield comics from newspapers and put them in a scrapbook. Matt remarked that it's empty.
  • A story mentioned Maynard Keynes being killed. Matt jokes:
  "This short story was brought to you by Thomas Sowell."
• invokedValues Dissonance: The movie Soul Man is frequently brought up for its absurd premise and use of Blackface.
  • Discussed regarding the overly-sympathetic portrayal of the Confederacy in Gods and Generals.
• Truth in Television: Mentioned when a strange portion of an (allo)historical work is shown to be accurate, like the Non Uniform Uniforms of Civil War soldiers in Gods and Generals.
• War Is Hell: An important point and deconstructive prong brought up whenever a major war is discussed, like the WW1-like trench warfare conditions during the Italian Campaign in WW2.

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"This is Matt, signing off."
"This is Max, signing off."
"Have a good day, guys!"