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Tropes are common denominators. Their viewers recognize them, laugh at them or groan at them, but most of us can guess where they're coming from — specifically, what cultural values are embodied in the trope.
Unfortunately, some tropes just don't travel very well. They're fine on their home turf, where everyone understands them and knows what value system they're based on. When that trope makes the trip to another country however, it gets seasick on the way over, arriving at port looking distinctly disheveled and finding itself among strangers who have no idea what they're talking about.
Since there are so many countries and cultures in the world, it's not surprising that there are so many different outlooks on life — what's important, who's important, what constitutes justice and what qualifies as cruelty changes according to where you are. Even in countries that speak the same language, values can be different. The UK and the USA, for example, share a language and are regarded as culturally similar to one another... but handguns are legal in the USA, while they are banned in the UK. The UK also has no death penalty, while many States in the USA do. This leads to some fundamental differences in the way the legal system is perceived, even between two countries that are supposedly alike.
Sometimes, the difference is even closer to home. A show where the death penalty for a criminal is a good ending in a state that accepts such a measure may not be as accepted as such in a state that frowns on execution. With the multicultural nature of many places, sometimes a trope only has to go down the street to become completely unrecognizable. Differing religions, backgrounds or life experiences can mean that a person's view of a trope differs from the "standard" the trope is derived from.
Other tropes find it difficult to age gracefully. The world being the dynamic and evolving place that it is, some aspects of the media don't quite manage to keep pace with the time, and become the "Grumpy Old Men" of Tropeland.
Very often, the trope in question is An Aesop, and exporting it, or viewing it twenty years later than the time it was created, results in a transformation into a Family Unfriendly Aesop.
If you see an example here that you disagree with, please refrain from adding your own interpretation. This wiki is multicultural, so there will be some examples that are dissonant for you.
See also Unfortunate Implications. Compare Moral Dissonance, where the show breaks its own morals. Also see Germans Love David Hasselhoff, in which it's critical acclaim rather than moral values that is on the line. Also see Fair For Its Day, in which the work actually has less values dissonance than its contemporaries. See Culture Clash and for when this happens in-story and Deliberate Values Dissonance for when the author is doing it on purpose. Also see Have A Gay Old Time and Get Thee To A Nunnery, where dialogue is interpreted differently due to this. Has similarity to Good Flaws Bad Flaws.
Examples
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Advertising
- Commercials for Underoos brand underwear, once omnipresent on Saturday Morning TV vanished in the early 90s — a combination of networks' programming targeting older kids and increasing paranoia over anything that could even be implied to sexualize kids. Do a search for "Underoos" at You Tube and judge for yourself.
- Tell that to JC Penny and their miniature Britney Spears costumes for 4 year-olds.
- Or, over here in NZ, the T-Shirt shop that sold "Future Porn Star" shirts in all sizes. Including toddler.
Anime and Manga
- Gunslinger Girl: Any Italian would find all of the relationships including between the adults to be unspeakably cold and distant as the artists, due to cultural projection, have depicted them as Japanese relationships might be, instead of as the very physical Italians would act.
- In Fruits Basket, Kisa Sohma, the Tiger of the Zodiac, is bullied by her classmates, who gang up on her because she has a different hair colour from the rest of her class. As a result, she becomes mute, and leaves school. Her teacher writes her a letter "encouraging" her to return. In it, the teacher seems aware that Kisa is being tormented, but she also seems to suggest that it's Kisa's behaviour that is causing the trouble, not the bullies'. She asks how Kisa can expect her classmates to like her when she obviously doesn't like herself, apparently skipping over the fact that it was her peers' tormenting of her that caused Kisa's self-loathing in the first place (she despised the fact that she was "too weak" to stand up to her classmates). Some have interpreted this to mean that the episode places the blame on Kisa's shoulders, saying that she should be strong enough to face the bullies alone, without relying on adult intervention. This is very different from the Western approach, which would punish the bullies first and foremost. However, Yuki says that the way to self-esteem is "to have someone tell you that they like you", i.e. outside support is a necessary condition for inner strength. So far as we know, the bullies are never punished, and eventually it's all about Kisa learning to stand on her own. But the episode still expresses the idea that it's good for Kisa to seek outside support, even if it's just emotional support.
- Hatsuharu, before delivering the teacher's letter, states that it makes him want to vomit. Other characters are supportive of Kisa and don't tell her that the bullying is her fault for being a good victim. Kyo points out that he also got bullied for having odd coloured hair. I think (it's been a while) that Akito the mean crazy hyena person taunted her for being weak... The show, if anything, is discussing Values Dissonance in the culture, not exhibiting it straight.
- Something similar happened in Sukeban Deka live-action episode 10, where Saki told the girl who was being bullied into shoplifting that she is not handling the situation properly by not saying no. She listens and says no, gets beat up, then Saki comes in and beats the bullies up. Since Saki is an undercover police agent, this could be interpreted in the Western sense of getting an authority to intervene, but only the adult ringleader (who also committed murder) gets arrested, and Saki seems to be beating them up as an example for a fellow student to follow, not as an agent.
- Blaming the people who get bullied for their situation isn't unique to Japan.
- In real life, maybe. However, most fiction denounces it, and most cultures denounce it as well even if it's not 100% adhered to, or even only lip service. Japan is fairly unique in actually having good characters espouse this in fiction as an aesop.
- A similar situation and reasoning was found in the short manga Vitamin, where a girl found in a compromising situation is systematically and brutally bullied by her entire class, to the point that the girl abandons school, becomes a hikikomori and develops an eating disorder. Even the same "arguments" formerly mentioned in the Fruits Basket example are given to the protagonist. However, the way her problem was focused (implying that she could be the victim of the situation, and no amount of strength from her side could have stopped the high level of cruelty she amounted) and how she finally overcomes the situation (including a scene where she rips her junior high school diploma, in front of all the students, parents and personal present in the graduation act), while still done in the Japanese way, implies an attitude a closer to the way people confront bullies on West. Maybe the attitudes are changing...
- The situation reaches full-blown subversion level in Aeka Shiraki's arc of the Visual Novel Yume Miru Kusuri. The protagonist, Kouhei, even points out how utterly stupid it was to blame Aeka for her bullying, especially in light of not just the horrific abuse she was forced to put up with, but the fact that she was an odd, but incredibly sweet and friendly person... being actively prevented from ever fitting in. In fact, the game as a whole casts a very critical eye on Japanese values of conformity...
- The Yamato Nadeshiko trope, when exported to the West, seems a bit sexist...
- ... but the Well Excuse Me Princess and Tsundere types are, for some specific groups of fans, far more popular overseas than they are back home.
- An example of this, albeit with males rather than females, is Yuri's harem in Kyou Kara Maou. Gentle, chivalrous Conrad seems to be the most favoured candidate for Yuuri's affections in Japan. In the West, however, Tsundere-esque Wolfram appears to have a bigger following. Mind you, this may be due to Conrad being interpreted as a father-figure by some Westerners.
- On the third hand, presentation is everything...
- Likewise, in Ai Yori Aoshi, Kaoru's preferred match is Yamato Nadeshiko Sakuraba Aoi for Japanese fans; but western fans prefer hooking him up with Loveable Sex Maniac and Manic Pixie Dream Girl-wannabe Tina Foster.
- Almost as if the Values Dissonance of Yamato Nadeshiko has a Distaff Counterpart, Western fans just doesn't seem to take Bishonen, Emo and Metrosexual characters well compared to the Japanese. On the other hand, rugged Badass guys devoid of any girly things are usually revered in the West as Manliness. This might be credited to the Japanese's belief that if you are a Bishonen, you are very sure that deep down you are a man, even if you dress like a girl, as well as a standard that places a high value on male androgyny as the ultimate sign of male beauty. Furthermore, the macho-men that are revered as American standards of heterosexuality are commonly used as gay stereotypes in Japanese media. In other words, each culture has the opposite concept of what is a manly man and what is a man that wants to sleep with a manly man.
- Compare Ah My Goddess to Bewitched The reactions of Keiichi and Darrin to their Magical Girlfriends, Belldandy and Samantha (wife in the latter case), and their treatment thereof, couldn't be more opposite.
- Keiichi embraces Belldandy's special status and is very gentle to her, letting her use her abilities to some degree.
- Darrin, on the other hand, pretty much makes Sam hide her magic powers so she won't be found out. Ironic, since IIRC Bewitched was one of Fujishima Kousuke's inspirations for Ah My Goddess!
- The difference goes even further, in that Samantha hid her powers from Darrin until after they were married. Keiichi does have to teach Belldandy to not use her powers obviously in public, but for fear of scaring people.
- Bewitched did address this topic on a few occasions, and tended to take care to emphasize that Samantha willingly chose a life where she hid her power to live as a mortal. An episode where she and Darrin decided to use her powers constantly threw off the status quo and greatly upset Samantha's ideas of how she wanted to live her own life. Other episodes showed that open displays of Samantha's powers could attract attention from less scrupulous people, such as a detective who blackmailed her after discovering she was a witch. Another episode showed how life would have turned out if Samantha had told Darrin about her powers before the wedding — Darrin initially freaked out, but came back to Samantha because he loved her anyway and actually quit his job because he refused to let his boss manipulate her powers for personal greed.
- In many anime, a character will be reprimanded for laughing loudly, crying or generally showing an "excess of emotion." While this may be universally understood in certain places (such as in an important meeting, in the cinema or in a library), it can be confusing if the character is just sitting with friends or talking to their parents. It only makes sense once you realize the emphasis Japanese culture puts on dignity, and not bothering other people with your personal problems.
- It works both ways, of course. The stereotypical American's emotional and dramatic nature, as well as the constitutional right to own a gun, is presumably surprising to the Japanese population. This resulted in "half-crazy, gun-toting American" characters appearing in anime. Examples: Leon of Pet Shop of Horrors, K from Gravitation, and most of the cast of FAKE (except Ryo, who's half Japanese). Another example happens when laws allowing citizens to own guns are passed: Bakuretsu Tenshi, for example, depicts Tokyo as slowly becoming a more rotten place than the lowest favelas of Rio de Janeiro after one of these laws was enacted.
- France has a similar attitude toward private gun ownership, as has Britain, which introduced some of the tightest gun control laws in Europe after the Dunblane
and Hungerford massacres.
- Perhaps this can best illustrated by a story. In an unnamed show, the group consisting of two Texans, a Louisianan, a French-raised American and a Brazilian. When the protagonist of the show pulled out his personal pistol and shot a guy about to cause somebody else harm, the Texans and Louisianan applauded the action as the act of a good Samaritan. In those states, citizens didn't have reliable police services at one time and had to protect themselves from Indian raiders, and troublemakers. The French-raised American and the Brazilian were both horrified and thought they saw an act of barbarity, since the protagonist shot the guy rather then trying to talk him down.
- Then there's the fact that over in Western countries, cousin intermarriage is treated as almost as bad as Brother Sister Incest, causing an aversion to cousin Unwanted Haremettes in Dating Sim games and shows based upon them.
- Note that not all Western countries share this. In the UK, it's legal but uncommon, and treated more as a joke than a source of revulsion.
- Nayuki in Kanon, generally seen as the normal one in a bunch of girls plagued with supernatural problems and Soap Opera Disease, was called "incest girl" by a lot of blogs covering the series, to match "sick girl", "demon girl", etc. This is because she was in love with her first cousin, a relationship that is accepted in many parts of the world.
- Yuka's unrequited love for her cousin Kouta in Elfen Lied is perfectly normal in Japan. To many American viewers, however, it makes her look like just another character with mental issues—but still not quite as bad as Maia's father, Mariko, or Lucy.
- Sayaka in Yoake Mae Yori Ruriiro Na, the Cool Big Sis, is also a cousin; her situation is made worse by the fact that the main character refers to her as "onee-san", or "older sister".
- This isn't exclusive to anime; many older Western works have it. The Importance of Being Earnest ends with the revelation that Jack is Gwendolen's long-lost cousin, which actually frees them to marry.
- The awkward/revolting aspects of cousin intermarriage are played for uncomfortable humor in Bully, mostly among the Preppies, one of whom is engaged to his second cousin (which is legal), much to Jimmy's disgust.
- This was once acceptable in parts of the United States. Gone With the Wind even creates the initial conflict of Scarlett O'Hara and Ashley Wilkes over the latter's family tradition of marriage to a cousin. In a Truth In Television example, Eleanor Roosevelt and her husband Franklin Delano Roosevelt, were fifth cousins and the former did not need to change her name at marriage — because she was a Roosevelt. This practice is frowned upon today and a common stereotype of Southerners is the perceived tendency to inbreed with cousins.
- Fifth cousins are so distantly related that they have no more chance of sharing genetic traits than any two unrelated strangers would. (Franklin Roosevelt was actually more closely related to Ulysses S. Grant than to Theodore or Eleanor.) This troper also suspects that cousin marriage is associated with the US South because people from the US South actually know who their fourth and fifth cousins are, unlike areas of recent immigration where young adults may not even know who their second cousins are, or if they even exist.
- Raye Penber's heavy-handed Stay In The Kitchen speech to his (former FBI agent) fiancée in Death Note makes his later murder less a tragedy and more an instance of Karmic Death, in the eyes of many readers, especially because Naomi was much more competent than he was.
- On the other hand, it makes you really feel for Naomi — which works heavily in favor of the story.
- In Universe (and possibly for reader) example: In Episode 23, Light refuses L's suggestion to carry a gun to assist in Higuchi's capture, citing that it's illegal for a citizen to own a gun in Japan, while L (who is of mixed ethnicity and is presumably not native Japanese) has no problem with carrying one, and neither does Watari. Similarly, earlier in the episode, Soichiro refuses to take one from the also non-Japanese career criminal Wedy, citing that he's no longer a police officer, and suggests that Wedy shouldn't have a gun, either (Aiber, however, declines to do so for personal reasons).
- The treatment of sexual harassment is another issue that can raise more than a few eyebrows in Western audiences. In Japan, "inappropriate touching" on trains is so widespread that some stations and trains have signs
warning women about perverts. Yet women are not supposed to raise a fuss about it should it actually happen to them; it's the emphasis on dignity coupled with an attitude of female subordination. The most the train stations do to prevent this is offer women only cars, thus continuing to place the responsibility on the victim to stay away from men rather than on men to not attack them. There is still great controversy in Japan over the legality of this, the lack of prosecution in all but the clearest of cases, and the lenient punishments of those who actually do get convicted.
- In anime, the Accidental Pervert is usually a bumbling, supposedly likable character; if the "target" freaks out, her reaction is played for comedy. More serious plots may feature outright, deliberate harassment, but very often the heroine will be scolded for fighting back or told not to make such a big deal out of it. Often it's not entirely clear whether the story is on the heroine's side ("sexual harassment is bad"), or backing up society's view ("the heroine needs to accept her lot in life as uncomplaining, submissive victim").
- In MARS, for example, Kira, the heroine, is assaulted while at her work. Naturally, she retaliates. Her boss, however, forces her to apologize to her attacker, even though she is the victim. The story is just ambiguous enough to leave the reader wondering if the author takes the manager's side or the best friend's.
- Indeed, if you were to look at a lot of Shoujo manga, you will notice that the girl is considered "pure" and more "chaste" if she just quietly and tearfully takes the groping from the molester. It is generally up to her boyfriend to call the molester on it and protect her, because a woman should never protect herself.
- Wait a sec, a girl is considered 'pure' and 'chaste' if she's allowing herself to be violated?
- However, most shoujo manga that indulge in this are fantasies in the vein of romance novels and bodice-rippers, so they don't necessarily reflect society's actual opinions.
- In Fate Stay Night, Shirou finds it good that a particular female character had a run-in with a molester on her way home, believing that the attack will knock a sense of femininity into her. And do not get me started with what he thinks of Saber defending him...
- This is changing somewhat: in the manga Keroro Gunsou, for instance, Aki Hinata, strong Hot Shounen Mom and aikido master, is groped on a train and responds by slamming her attacker to the ground. Several other writers have followed this trend, especially when dealing with strong female characters.
- Also in the Parasyte manga, when one of the infected humans humiliates a groper, the other passengers cheer her on.
- In one episode of Ouran High School Host Club the heroine Haruhi takes on two thugs in defense of a group of girls. Her male friends reprimand her for getting involved and finish the fight themselves, but the lesson they teach Haruhi is more about understanding her own limits and safety than about being a meek, submissive girl.
- Pet Shop of Horrors, mentioned above, runs into a lot of values dissonance, as many of its episodes have an odd, twisted kind of moral to them. In Japanese culture a lot of these morals probably make sense, but to a more Western eye they come off as Count D being a bloodthirsty bastard rather than an Aesop-dispenser. (Though how much of a bastard he was supposed to be even by their standards is unclear.) A good example is one episode where the man who has "vengeance" visited on him is implied throughout to have murdered his wife by pushing her over the railing of a cruise ship. Turns out she jumped, because she overheard him talking to the woman he was actually in love with. It seems that she was a huge bitch who always had to have whatever she wanted, and she decided she wanted him and railroaded him into it. She became "heartbroken" at their words and killed herself. The story still seems to treat him as if he's to blame, and his fate is treated as a Karmic Death.
- Er... It's been a while since I read PSOH but IIRC it was only her rival in love who said that Evangeline was a huge bitch and so on. As far as I remember she was selfish, but she was genuinely in love with the guy. The rival had been also jealous of her for a long time, especially after Evangeline became engaged with the man she (the rival) loved. The guy apparently tried to play both women, effectively betraying Eva with having an affair behind her back. Not to mention that going by his reactions to the mermaid, somewhere along the line he did genuinely fall in love with Eva.
- Things get really weird in Pet Shop of Horrors: Tokyo, which starts blatantly imposing the "rules" of the animal kingdom directly on to humans. Take the first story, "Domestic": A victim of domestic violence dies, but it's treated as a happy ending by Count D because she protected her son. The pet the woman gets is not to save her, but to ensure that she fulfills her role as a woman and mother: defending her young to the last. The Count has no remorse for his actions, basically sending her to her death, because that is apparently Nature's Way. It becomes increasingly difficult to tell if this is a strategy to de-humanize the Count after he becomes notably more compassionate in the first series (which would be in-universe Values Dissonance), or whether Akino herself supports this view. Men don't get off lightly either — see "Double-Booking".
- How would D have known the woman's ex-husband would really return to kill her?. This Troper thought that the point was that the pet would eat her nightmares and help her get over her insecurities, hence the lecture it gives her about how it's not unnatural or horrid for her letting the stress get to her.
- Also, our very first introduction to Count D in the manga chapter "Dream": Angelique's actions were no doubt seen as selfish and overly emotional to a Japanese audience, but to Americans she seemed to be motivated by love for her pet, and her punishment came across as over-top cruel. Yes, she broke the rules. But even if she hadn't, her bird would still have been eviscerated, and Count D never even warned her.
- However, if she hadn't broken the rules she would've never seen the massacre and would've never known what happened to the male bird.
- Not to mention the fact that she got off pretty light. In almost all other cases, breaking a rule for D's pet leads to a violent death.
- Transformers Beast Wars II will never, ever be officially translated into English for Western audiences. The reason? The Jointrons, who act like stereotypical Mexicans, are really lazy, and transform into bugs.
- One would hope the real reason would be the horrendous sidekicks to the Autobots... in fact, it probably would be. Look at how the Mexican and Central American community reacted to white people suddenly deciding Speedy Gonzales and Slowpoke Rodriguez were "racist", after having allowed them to grow up with them. Stupid white folk are still antsy about placing them back on Looney Tunes rotation, amazingly.
- In retrospect, the Jointrons would be quite a non-reason to keep Beast Wars II as No Export For You thanks to the Twins from Revenge of the Fallen.
- Maison Ikkoku features a big one in the main character Godai's relationship with an annoying teenage high school girl who follows him around, insists they're "meant to be", and tries to ruin his maybe/maybe not relationship with his beloved out of jealousy. The problem everyone has is that she's annoying and Godai doesn't really lover her... not that she's sixteen or seventeen years old, and he's at least twenty. In fact, everyone acts like he just may hook up with her anyways, and they don't particularly comment about the morality of it aside from breaking the "true love"'s heart. Even worse, his "true love" had married her teacher years earlier, when the age difference was even bigger, and it's viewed as a perfect relationship.
- The anime's slightly different take on the Kasumi/Tofu "relationship" (mainly A: keeping Tofu around and thus giving him the occasional chance to pop up and be stupid because of Kasumi, and B: having Akane be a Shipper On Deck for the "couple") in Ranma One Half could be viewed in a similar fashion.
- In Ikki Tousen, when a character is revealed to really be the incarnation of Wang Yun rather than who he had previously claimed to be, it's treated as a huge shock and evidence that he's completely evil. Wang Yun was a hero in the original Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but it seems the Japanese don't think too highly of him.
- That was before, well, Saji (the one who was Wang Yun), actually had betrayed and manipulated his friends....
- In episode 19 of Clannad After Story Tomoya, his five year-old daughter, and his father (in his 50's-60's) are all seen sharing a bath together. Now, under a Japanese values system, this is a very touching moment, because it represents Tomoya's acceptance of his father into his life, thus allowing him to share an intimate, very Japanese tradition of the family all bathing together; particularly significant insofar as Tomoya scrubs his father's back while his daughter looks on. In short, it is meant to be highly symbolic and touching. But under a Westerner's values, or for that manner many other cultural perspectives, one simply sees two adult men and a five-year-old girl naked in a bathroom together and this could be interpreted as very disturbing.
- Same for a scene in My Neighbor Totoro that supposedly was almost changed until Miyazaki himself complained.
- In the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga, Jonouchi (Joey) and Honda (Tristan) start out by bullying Yugi. When Yugi's grandfather expresses concern, Yugi defends the bullies, saying, "They're teaching me to be a man!" Also, Jonouchi and Honda sexually harass Anzu (Tea) by finding new ways to lift up her skirt in class. This is seen as harmless "boys will be boys" fun.
- Yugi's grandfather never expresses concern—he never even knows about it. What happens is Joey and Honda themselves get beaten up by an even worse bully (who claims to be acting on Yugi's behalf, but its actually part of an extortion scheme), and Yugi stands up to this guy. There's not really much Values Dissonance there (the thing with Anzu, on the other hand, is hard to justify, except that they soon stop doing it).
- Tor-ment.
- Of course, it should be noted that most OTHER bullies in the manga are not portrayed in a positive light and punished for their misdeeds... in fact, several times the punishments go a little too far.
- Of course, such actions used to be seen as exactly that, "boys will be boys" fun, in most of the world, so it might not be country-to-country dissonance so much as Japan-lagging-behind dissonance. (Of course, it's left to the reader to decide if it's gone too far in the other direction, since Jonouchi and Honda might be thrown in jail to spend the rest of their formative years behind bars for peeking at Anzu's panties, in some places.)
- In Loveless, it is very obvious to most of the teachers at Ritsuka's school and his personal therapist that he is being abused by his mother, but no one does anything about it. This is a grade school student, and no one asks him where he got those bruises! When his teacher does attempt to become more involved with Ritsuka's homelife, as she is rightly concerned about him, she is met with scorn from her faculty, Ritsuka, Soubi, Ritsuka's family, and generally everyone. Again, very Japanese values at work here. Essentially, under a Japanese code of behavioural conduct, Ritsuka's family and their actions around him are a private affair not to be meddled with by outsiders. Therefore, his teacher is breaking a big social taboo by attempting to establish a greater understanding of the problems with the parents' behaviour. Under Western ideologies, she is in the right and is fulfilling the duties of a responsible adult and teacher by looking out for her students while the other staff are in the wrong for letting a child abuse case go unpunished.
- It's often very difficult to tell where the bruises on children come from. Some children come to school black and blue while others have only a few marks, yet it could be the latter child that is abused and the former only plays rough. Although there is valuses dissonance going on, this troper believes that it isn't as clear cut as the above example.
- Similiar situations occur in Aishiteruze Baby. Several instances of child abuse come up - one of the most glaring is when Yuzu's friend is beaten by his mother for no reason at all other than her own frustrations. His father, who witnesses the abuse, mainly dodges his wife and occasionally moves his son out of the firing line, but doesn nothing to address the main problem. When five-year-old Yuzu realises (and announces) what's going on, the abusive mother accuses her of being a badly-raised child for meddling in others' affairs. Then there's Miki, whose teacher ensures that she is bullied and ostracized by her classmates after she witnesses him beating a boy. Her father's response to her increasing introversion? Looking out for her? Asking the people around her what's wrong? Talking to her? Nope - saying he doesn't want "a child like her" and hitting her. The resolution of these situations is presumably to suggest that even major problems can be sorted out within the family with enough love - but to other audiences, hitting a child is automatic crossing of the Moral Event Horizon. The abusive adults look a lot like a Karma Houdini bonanza. Many would be quite happy to see the whole miserable lot lined up and hit by a steamroller.
- A more solid example of this is touched upon in the manga Doll Star where the main character Saho's father continues to abuse both her mother, and then her brother when he tries to defend her from him. Even while they call the police in the more serious situations, they try not to resort to it for, as the father says (and was mentioned above), it is 'his' family and their situation. In fact, they make a note that the japanese police didn't really do much to help outside of a mild punishment, even after they'd moved away to escape him. So, like in Loveless it's kept quiet within the family. The father even praises Saho as a "good girl" for keeping completely out of the way of his abuse. The only person who seems to be able see the incidents more broadly is the heroine
(?) Yugi, who only seems to be able to do so because (magic aside) she's strange and has her own unique perspective and sense of justice on the matters. (Later on, Saho herself is (like Yugi) outcasted and looked upon as odd after she decides to change herself to be more honest/outspoken. This follows after she confronts her dad and seeks help from Yugi, so it does have a sense of justice against abuse.))
- In Toradora episode 16, Ryuji finds Kitamura sitting around with a giant bruise on his face; Kitamura reveals eventually that his father basically hauled off and punched the hell out of him because he dyed his hair (and also probably for not wanting to run for student council president); both of these were explicitly stated to be cries for help on Kitamura's part. In most Western productions, the rest of the episode would probably be about how abusive and wrong this was, both physically and emotionally. The characters don't seem to think twice about it, and Kitamura comes back to school the next day with his hair dyed back and saying he's all better now.
- The dyed hair turns up in a lot. This also is featured in The Twelve Kingdoms where Yohko is thought to be some sort of hoodlum or perhaps prostituting herself just because her hair is red and not black like other Japanese students. This escalates to the point where her parents are called and she is cornered by teachers to stop dying her hair for the sake of her honor student reputation. Unfortunately for her, she is a natural redhead because she is from another world. Even more unfortunate is the fact when she's whisked away by the golden haired rapunzel Keiki who only solidifies suspicions of her relating with unscrupulous characters. Because, even if he's innocent, we all know blond guys are evil especially when they're foreigners in Japan.
- Tall Dark And Bishoujo Sakaki from Azumanga Daioh has huge self-esteem issues and wishes she looked more like Chiyo-chan, a fact that is often played for comedy. This may actually be a joke that benefits from values dissonance, as it seems much sillier to those who are not fully aware of the casual pedophilia that informs modern Japanese ideas of beauty.
- Fans usually designate her height issues as a "Japanese conformist/acceptance" concern and the said height makes her feel as the odd one out.
- Plus, there's simply a lot of Truth In Television to the idea that being tall and imposing is a lot less fun than most people who aren't think it is, making the exchanges where Chiyo wishes she was more like Sakaki and Sakaki just wishes she were more like Chiyo empathetic for some, rather than dissonant.
- In the RSE arc of the Pokemon Special
manga, one of the protagonists Ruby (10) runs away from home to battle in contests. Eventually his father finds him in a ruin, and starts beating him to a pulp . He then uses his Slaking to rip out the stair his son is standing on, (almost hitting a bystander), and dangles him, over the edge of the building . His son is finally forced to start fighting back, until the floor collapses, with them both dangling over the edge , they just miss some metal debris, Ruby is knocked out, and his father stands to start battling again, before conceding his son's goal. Then we get this .
- The incident had more behind it due to an event in the trio's common past. A berserk wild Salamence attacked Ruby and Sapphire in its frenzy. Ruby took a horrible scar from Salamence's attack, and his innate gift at Pokemon battling let him repulse the frenzied beast, but he felt such influence tainted Sapphire's crystal heart. He has since shunned all forms of battle and sought instead to focus on contests, swearing never to fight in the public square again.
- Sapphire was not tainted by Ruby's counterattack and defense of her as he feared, but even she was affected by that incident. Having massive guilt over the injury he took, she blamed herself for her weakness. She has spent the time since then assisting Prof. Birch in his work as a means to strengthen mind, body, and soul, so that she would never fail someone in that manner ever again.
- Norman covered up the incident to atone for Ruby's attack on Salamence, and was disqualified from the Gym Certification as a result. On top of being barred from reapplying for the next five years, he was commissioned to seek out Rayquaza to set things right. His sacrifice made Ruby's disdain towards his training sting that much more, and the two have been at odds.
- In the Pokemon anime, Zoey/Nozomi's behavior and tone of voice toward Dawn/Hikari was changed in the dub. She acted rather attracted to her, had a sweeter tone of voice and constantly complemented her. This was probably due to implications and the fan-base. Zoey eventually mellowed down, but eventually, Candice came in and made the situation.."Worse".
- In Sailor Moon, the romance of the story involves a junior high school student involved with a college student. In Japan, Mamoru is the butt of a few jokes at worst — in North America, he would be arrested.
- That's Adaptation Decay, since anime!Mamoru was made older than in the manga, where he's just a highschooler and not much older than Usagi herself. However, Japanese culture still generally approves of relationships with a gap like this despite the jokes, as the older man is seen as more capable of protecting the younger girl.
- In general, older men dating younger girls is considered acceptable in Japan. In a Hot For Student plot, for example, it's the teacher/student relationship that usually makes the relationship forbidden, not the age gap. Most of the time, though not always, once the student graduates they can be in a relationship and no one will object, even if the student is in middle school.
- This contributed to the commercial failure of Detective Conan in the US. The anime is supposed to be a children's show, aired at 7:30pm Mondays for most of its televised history, and the structure of the story is along the lines of a children's show. However, the sheer amount of Family Unfriendly Deaths caused serious problems to the West, and importers were given the choice of cutting or timing out of its intended demographic...
- There was a later episode on Tekno Man where a middle-aged, overweight man with a Irish/Scottish accent slapped a little girl on the ass. In front of other people. And it wasn't as punishment or even anger. Did I mention this was being shown on an Australian kid's show that kids like myself were watching before they left for the bus to go to school?
- Some fans of Naruto seem to have trouble grasping Japanese culture, particularly in regards to Naruto and Sakura's relationship. Sakura makes occational signs of affection for Naruto that wouldn't be seen as romantic in the U.S., but in Japan... that's a different story.
- Then again, compared to her declaring that she "love(s Sasuke) so much (she) cannot stand it," many of Hinata's actions toward Naruto (particularly when she states that she's willing to die protecting him because she loves him in Chapter 437) and Naruto's own overtures of affection toward Sakura, it is subtle enough to be seen as merely (close) friendship.
- Keep in mind that in Japan, it's considered much more romantic to be quiet and subtle with expressing love, given their whole values system. Also, the Japanese have...very different attitudes about affectionate contact between men and women. Male and female friends hugging in the U.S is a common sight, and nothing to blink at. (so it totally makes sense if people thought Naruto and Sakura are just friends) In Japan, not so much, given their attitudes about physical contact and modesty. Which is why from the point of view of the average middle-school age Japanese male (who the comic is actually aimed at), the Naruto-Sakura hug would seem unambiguously romantic.
- There's also a large amount of westerners who got the wrong idea of what Pain means when he says he considers himself a god: They often think of "god" in a more Abrahamic manner, as in immortal and omnipotent, when he really only considers himself very powerful (which he really is) and "enlightened" while even knowing that some of his powers shorten his life.
- In Japan, the extended middle finger is seen as a harmless, meaningless gesture. Hence the reason Old Tom gives one to Star Saber in Transformers Victory, a children's cartoon.
- Likewise with the tendencies to flip people exhibited in the mains character of the Viewtiful Joe anime and the Naruto manga (though not the anime).
- The situation is reversed with the gesture where someone pulls down their bottom eyelid and sticks their tongue out at the victim, which is apparently Japan's equivalent of flipping people off. This seems to be completely ignored by Western censors, since the face doesn't mean anything to Western viewers.
- During the beach episode of Ouran High School Host Club, Kyouya pretends to be about to rape Haruhi — because Haruhi decided to confront thugs harassing girls all alone without any regard of her own safety And was nearly killed by them. It doesn't cross Haruhi's mind to report Kyouya to the school authorities or the police for harassment.
- This would be valid only if Haruhi had not deduced that Kyouya would actually not have done anything to her. She realizes he was trying to teach her a lesson and she catches on, thereby fulfilling his goal.
- Not to mention the fact that trying to retaliate against Kyouya Ootori is a very bad idea.
- Nudity in Japanese culture is viewed very differently. While it's also used for plain old Fan Service, it's also used to convey innocence and purity. This really causes a problem with children - a nude child or a panty shot is not intended to be sexual at all in Japanese culture and in fact, a nude child is often intended to emphasize their lack of sexuality. Consider, for example, the bathing scenes in My Neighbor Totoro (in which the father is bathing with his daughters) or the numerous panty shots in Kikis Delivery Service. This does not translate well to a pedophile-wary West, in which any instance of this is immediately branded as Lolicon.
- Parents bathing with children, even fathers and daughters, is not uncommon in Japan, up to a certain age. Girls taking baths together is considered more a relaxing social thing than anything else, especially if the happen to be visiting an onsen, even comparing bust sizes and curves and such while in the bath. Even mixed sex baths are OK, as it's not really a sexual thing, just a chance to relax in the steaming hot water and chat with friends.
- Frankly, this trope could probably adequately explain a lot of what seems to be Relationship Writing Fumble in the eyes of western fans. If you are more used to more open western romances, don't realize that the Japanese are generally more shy about overt romantic affection, what the mythological themes and symbolism mean, and a lot of subtle social cues, you're probably going to be pretty lost.
- The character of Izumi in Fullmetal Alchemist. To a Westerner, her Training From Hell and habit of randomly smacking Al and Ed borders on the sadistic, and it is particularly jarring when she behaves this way after they've experienced a lot of trauma, especially when what she scolds them for (using alchemy to try to bring someone back from the dead) is something she attempted herself. Apparently, she comes across as more stern but loving to an Eastern audience.
- Much of Izumi's treatment of the Elric brothers, Winry's treatment of Edward (a wrench to the head? As he himself says, does she want to kill him?) Edward's treatment of Hohenheim (he could literally kill him... bad idea to punch someone in the face or gut with a metal limb), and even some of Al and Ed's treatment of each other (come on... punching your big bro with an iron glove?) would definitely count as domestic violence. This is played for fun, but would be extremely dangerous if taken literally (especially by children, who shouldn't be watching FMA in the first place). Concerning Izumi, Ed and Al literally display signs of post-traumatic stress disorder when they talk about her — to great "comic" effects. Hell, in the real world she could get sued for this.
- Significantly, there is no sign whatsoever that Trisha, who is portrayed as a kind of "perfect mom" archetype, ever smacked her children for whatever reason; in a manga Omake, she just scolds young Edward when he beats up Al with a book (!). And Hoho punishes him by making him carry a bucket of water and delivering An Aesop about how mothers love their children, which they have carried in their belly for nine months. Hardly a violent upbringing. At her most "violent", Trisha tells Ed he can't keep the kitty.
- In fact, much of Edward's seemingly cold-hearted treatment of Winry is also very abusive and quite similar to the way Hohenheim "abandoned" Trisha, but the plot seems to underline this voluntarily.
- Much of this is a product of the first anime, where characters were obligated to be significantly more dysfunctional. In the manga, those issues were either muted or simply not present. The new anime seems to be doing this even more so, with Edward not losing his temper at Winry over opening the watch.
- A lot of things about Amestris seem like values dissonance at first, until you find out that there is something seriously evil going on behind it all.
- All this is meant for 14 year olds.
- Card Captor Sakura has an astonishingly casual view of May/December teacher/student relationships. Sakura's mother and father met when he was a high school teacher and she was his student. One of Sakura's prepubescent classmates has a crush on their teacher... and he returns it! But then, it's Clamp.
- Sakura's mother was disowned by her family, because they considered the match scandalous. It is not entirely clear whether her relatives are angry because he was her teacher, because he is not upper class or both.
- It's hinted in the anime that it was more of the latter, since Fujitaka speaks to Nadeshiko's grandfather Masaaki at some point and mentions how he was "a mere highschool teacher without family" when they got married.
- In Kodomo No Omocha, Sana's adoptive mother Misako slaps and berates Sana's birth mother Keiko for giving her up to adaption. She doesn't seem to acknowledge that Keiko gave birth to Sana at age thirteen and the manga hints that Sana was actually a child born out of incestuous rape by Keiko's uncle. It doesn't help that in the anime she went all bitch at Keiko after she explained that she was too young to keep Sana. (Sana herself doesn't seem bitter at Keiko, and in fact she even wishes her biological mom well in her life.)
- Misako's actions and anger had less to do with putting Sana up for adoption and more to do with leaving her newborn daughter on a park bench to freeze to death if Misako hadn't found her.
- In Code Geass, when Milly announces that whoever brings her a runaway cat will get a kiss from one of the student council members, the enthusiasm this inspires in most of the campus, and the horror it inspires in never-been-kissed student council members Kallen and Shirley, seems rather extreme from an American perspective considering most of the characters are around 17 years old.
- Kissing, especially a First Kiss, is a huge deal in Japan, for both boys and girls. In the West, eleven-twelve years old seems to be the usual age for a first kiss, but in Japan, a high school student who has never had a first kiss is not uncommon.
- It's worth noting that while it is a Japanese show, the scene in question takes place at a Britannian high school (the half-Britannian, half-Japanese Kallen attends as a Britannian but considers herself Japanese). When Lelouch and Suzaku catch the cat, Nunnally, who is technically on the council, has no reservations about giving the two of them a kiss (although there are potential Brother Sister Incest undertones in Lelouch and Nunnally's relationship).
- Played For Laughs in Katekyo Hitman Reborn. In the Italian mafia, a subordinate kissing their boss on the chhek is not unusual. In Japan (and done to Tsuna by newly introduced Chrome), it's a Ship Tease
- In some series like Hikaru No Go, Yu Yu Hakusho and Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, characters sometimes drop out of schooling after middle school, typically for the sake of their job/sport/hero career. While this might seem shocking to Western readers, high school is not mandatory in Japan.
- The content ratings for English versions of shonen manga often demonstrate various standards of acceptability, with many manga that younger children would be able to read in Japan being deemed for teens or older teens in America. Mai Hime is one notable example, as while it is a shonen series, the English release contains a content warning stating that it is not for children.
- In Ponyo On A Cliff By The Sea, a mother leaves her five-year-old son alone in a typhoon in order to take supplies to elderly women in the old-folks home, who seem to already have others taking care of them. This looks like child abuse from a Western perspective, instead of dedication to her job and trust in her son's maturity as was probably intended.
- But of course, this troper is American and took the scene for its probable intended meaning. So Your Mileage May Vary
- It's supposed to be romantic that Black Jack stalked his lover for weeks before they started going out "to keep her safe". Also, it's apparently cruel to tell your patient she has cancer. Presumably you're supposed to lie and say they're having surgery because of their sore throat or something. And removing a woman's cancer infected uterus and ovaries requires them to get a sex change, as she's no longer a woman. Black Jack's just full of this. All three of those examples were within 5 pages of each other.
- Japan definitely has a more accepting/even positive attitude toward suicide than the West, and one series in which you can see this is Irresponsible Captain Tylor. When desperate situations happen in early episodes, basically every single character bar Tylor himself start talking about dying a heroic death, and Tylor's self-preservation instinct is treated as a sign of his incompetence. What makes this weird, is that while it would be perfectly in character for someone like Yamamoto, who was The Ace until Tylor showed up to act like this, it even extends to the Marines on the ship who are the kind of malcontents you wouldn't expect to be so eager to die.
Comics
- J Michael Straczynski's Marvel Comics maxiseries The Twelve contains an in-story example. Golden Age hero Dynamic Man sees a woman who's been mugged being chased by a black man. Upon grabbing the man he finds out that this is the victim's husband. He instantly loses interest in helping either one.
- In-story example: in the Buffy comics we see that Dracula is a product of the 15th century and uses terms like "moor" and "yellow swine". "Moor" is a slur when aimed at black people and not the actual Moors. Both Xander and the black recipient of the insults acknowledge this as horribly racist.
- Tintin in the Congo has often been criticized as having racist and colonialist views, as well as several scenes of violence against animals. Hergé said that he was portraying the naïve views of the time. When the album was redrawn in 1946, Hergé removed several references to the fact that the Congo was at that time a Belgian colony. This failed to mollify critics. Because of its controversial subject matter, the album was previously only published as a facsimile black and white edition in English. However, a color English edition was finally published in September 2005, by Egmont Publishing, with a foreword explaining the historical context (a similar move had been employed for the 1983 translation of The Blue Lotus) and a collectors'-edition banner in red covering the main image over the front cover.
- It's probably worth noting that after this fiasco, Hergé did an about face after realizing just how badly racist it came out. The Blue Lotus actually had a section where Tintin discusses various racist stereotypes about Chinese people to Chang, who laughs and says "people in your country must be crazy!" Later on, Hergé actually developed a close friendship with a Chinese man who was the model for the character Chang, and when he dropped out of contact, he wrote arguably the most beautiful and touching comic, Tintin in Tibet, just to express how much he missed him. That's an about face turn if I ever saw one.
- When the album was to be published in Scandinavia, the publishers objected to a scene on page 56 of the colour album, where Tintin blows up a rhinoceros with a stick of dynamite. They asked the page to be redrawn, and Hergé complied. Instead of blowing the animal to pieces, the rhino accidentally fires the gun of the sleeping Tintin, gets scared, and runs away. This page was also used in the English- and German-language translations.
- In the introduction to Fagin the Jew (his own confrontation with the anti-Semitism in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist), Will Eisner recollects how he created Ebony as a one-dimensional comic relief black sidekick for The Spirit because it was common practice at the time. After serving alongside other Americans of different heritage in World War II, Eisner was more enlightened and gave Ebony more depth and gravitas.
- Not quite a comic book, but near enough: This 1815 cartoon
◊ is meant to be a funny, comic portrayal of how to deal with your wife. By strapping her into bed so that you can do whatever you want with her, using gags and thumbscrews, if necessary.
- Ultimate Captain America is another in-story example. In order to maintain his World War II origin story for stories in the 1970s and beyond, the original Cap was said to have been frozen in an iceberg and thawed out years later. The Ultimate version goes into depth about the kind of culture shock that would happen if a man, frozen in the 1940s, actually woke up in the 2000s.
- In the case of the Argentinian comic strip Mafalda, while Mafalda's ideas on women's rights were advanced by the standards of The Sixties, they come as more rude and stuck-up than well-intentioned to modern readers. Specially when she says that her House Wife mother Raquel is "useless" and "mediocre" because she chose to raise Mafalda at home than juggle with work/college and motherhood. This feminist/equalitarian Troper has often wanted to punch Mafalda for being such a bitch to Raquel.
- Manolito's parents' quick willingness to use corporal punishment on their son is also quite cringeworthy.
- Also, one strip shows that mentioning divorce during dinner is a big no-no.
Films
Literature
- A good example is the classic Lensman series by E.E. "Doc" Smith, one of the seminal works of science fiction. The noble protagonist, Kimball Kinnison, may come across to the modern reader as a blatantly condescending sexist when dealing with women and humanoid female aliens such as the Lyranians. Ironically, despite this, the series still treats female characters better than much of the other fiction written at the same time.
- On the other hand, it's mentioned that one of the distinguishing traits of Civilization (the good side) is more-or-less equality of the sexes, while Boskone (the evil culture) is generally really oppressive to women (see Second Stage Lensman). The Lyranians really are alien, and most of them seem less human (psychologically) than many of the Starfish Aliens.
- In Theodor Fontane's 19th century novel Effi Briest, the eponymous, sixteen-year-old protagonist is married off to the much older Baron Innstetten by her parents. Bored and feeling constrained in her marriage, she then has an extramarital affair with an (even older) military officer and friend of her husband. While this alone would seem sympathetic to a modern audience, she also self-admittedly (and in the opinion of her parents) only married the Baron at all because of his good looks and excellent career prospects, choosing not to object to the marriage and pass up the chance to be together with her cousin, whom she genuinely likes. This is, for the time and in the opinion of everyone involved, a sensible and normal decision. Effi herself feels bad more for having to hide her affair than having an affair at all. Additionally, her husband is portrayed as genuinely loving and giving her many freedoms for his time, if somewhat of a workaholic and often absent. In our modern society, in which gold diggers of this type are considered cold and unscrupulous, Effi looks like much less of a tragic heroine and more of a conniving bitch who gets her just desserts when Innstetten finally finds out and divorces her.
- Anne McCaffrey's earlier works show levels of sexism and violence towards women that are cringe-inducing to modern audiences. In Dragonflight (1968), F'lar, the hero, regularly shakes and slaps the heroine, Lessa, despite the author's assertions that theirs is a healthy and loving relationship. Dragonquest (1971) suggests that one of the female characters, Kylara, actually enjoys being battered as proof of her lover's masculinity. The books are products of their time — they were written when domestic violence was quietly accepted, and the "barbaric" hero was the epitome of romance. The modern Dragonriders Of Pern books, however, omit this behaviour, suggesting that the author recognises that times have changed. Unfortunately, the non-consensual sex remains, a hangover from the outdated, sexist and dangerous theory that women like to be "mastered" (read: raped) by their men.
- It's also mentioned that it happens to other men, too, if their dragons choose to have sex. Afterwards, the men are turned gay, due to the author's explicitly stated belief that anything being inserted into a man's anus will permanently make him homosexual. Seriously. Menolly and Sebell in the middle of the ocean is another example, with its implication that even though she loves him, she still has to be "forced" into sex by her fire lizard, apparently because Good Girls Don't. And because she's still got a thing for Masterharper Robinton. And because she hadn't planned on having to screw someone in the middle of an ocean on an uncomfortable boat. And because at that point, she hadn't admitted her feelings for Sebell yet.
- The simplest explanation of green riders is that it happened not on purpose but merely to patch very badly planned setting, and that Anne basically told Yaoi Fangirls to sod off — and as such probably don't mind instead of gushing they now repeat 'peg! horror!' story everywhere without a single prooflink.
- Prooflink
, of a sort.
- Mc Caffrey retcons Lytol for just that reason: Larth is originally a green, only to become a brown by the second novel.
- On the subject of Kylara, it was also implied in Dragonquest that she had "exotic tastes" that she conditioned the male riders to respond to; which could easily be argued as a taste for masochism. The hero of Dragonquest, perhaps not ironically F'lar's brother, F'nor subjects the heroine Brekke to the persuasive affection treatment by luring her to an isolated area and having sincere non-consensual sex with her. Evidenced when she tries to fight him off before submitting with "surprising passion", because she was really crushing on him all along and just needed help showing it. Seriously.
- Well, she does tell him "I have loved you from the first moment I saw you..."
- In-universe, the Values Dissonance between the Oldtimers and the present day people of Pern, including the other dragonriders, is a major plot point in Dragonquest.
- Pretty much anything written by HP Lovecraft, whose racism went far beyond what was common even in his day and age. Due to his belief in Britain as the pinnacle of civilization, he would regularly describe other ethnicities with the same revulsion as his Cosmic Horror beasts. According to his divorced wife, "Whenever we found ourselves in the racially mixed crowds which characterize New York... Howard would become livid with rage. He seemed almost to lose his mind."
- His writing commonly refers to "degraded" or "degenerate" people, which is usually code for tribal natives, blacks, or Jews.
- Medusa's Coil
is one of H.P.Lovecraft's script editing jobs; basically, the magazine sent him a somewhat-promising story, and he reworked it into something publishable. Most of them are nonetheless crackling good reads, and this one is pretty promising — mysterious goings on in a seemingly abandoned house. A strange host, his son's mysterious wife, Cosmic Horror, and turning into giant snakes. Our hero learns his host was dead long ago, and discovers the true secrets of the house. But one secret is held back to be revealed in the last sentence: It would be too hideous if they knew that the one-time heiress of Riverside — the accursed gorgon or lamia whose hateful crinkly coil of serpent-hair must even now be brooding and twining vampirically around an artist's skeleton in a lime-packed grave beneath a charred foundation — was faintly, subtly, yet to the eyes of genius unmistakably the scion of Zimbabwe's most primal grovellers. No wonder she owned a link with that old witch-woman — for, though in deceitfully slight proportion, Marceline was a negress. Wait... WHAT?! While that ridiculously over-the-top racism (so jarring that it practically counts as Nightmare Retardant) may have more to do with the original author than Lovecraft, he still chose to leave it in...
- Parodied in To Mars and Providence by Don Webb, which is about H.P. Lovecraft witnessing the Martian invasion from War of the Worlds, where the narrative (which is from Lovecraft's perspective) is ridiculously racist to the point of hilarity. It opens by describing Lovecraft as "A gentleman of pure Yankee stock, and the true chalk-white Nordic type" and gets worse from there.
- Also parodied in Warren Ellis' Planetary comics, where Lovecraft is shown believing black people reproduce by laying eggs.
- Both "The Shadow over Innsmouth" and the earlier story "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family" nominally involve sex with non-humans; this, naturally, is still questionable today, but it's clear that Lovecraft perceived miscegenation the same way.
- The Dramatic Twist of "The Dunwitch Horror" involved human/Eldritch Horror sex as well—although it's hardly a surprise given the unusual appearance of the resulting...children?
- Then there's the story "At The Mountains of Madness", in which wherever the word "penguin" appears, the adjective "grotesque" is there, too. Now, granted, these were giant albino mutant penguins, but still, there's really no way of making a frigging penguin scary.
- At least one person
has theorized that Lovecraft's early works showed standard Victorian Values Dissonance, but his racism really became inflamed when he moved to New York City with his (Jewish) wife. The theory goes that the humanity-destroying Cosmic Horrors of later works were directly influenced by the extreme racism and fear that gripped HPL during his time among immigrants in NYC.
- They still lived separately (helping the theory that Lovecraft was asexual) and later divorced, if amicably and staying friends.
- To call Lovecraft's attitude "racism" is something of an oversimplification. It would be more accurately described as ethnocentrism, with a strong dose of classism included. He also showed a strong antipathy toward non-Anglo Europeans, and to lower-class Anglo-Europeans (his descriptions of the "degenerate" people of the mountain regions, more recently referred to as "hillbillies", are notoriously derogatory; despite the fact that they were also of his preferred Anglo-European ethnicity). There is evidence that his views became more moderated toward the end of his life; and he is known to have deplored the butchery of the Holocaust, despite his earlier anti-semitism.
- Possibly fairer to say he deplored the extreme anti-semitism of the Nazis, if that is what he did. He died before the wholesale slaughter of the Holocaust occured.
- I, for one, would say there's a definite difference between racism and genocide.
- It's best defined simply as 'xenophobia'. Eldritch Abomination is just the ultimate expression of it and while it's more showy by far, Uncanny Valley cases seem to be more prevalent in his works.
- George R Stewart's Earth Abides has a fairly innocuous tone, but does have one bizarre moment when the protagonist's girlfriend (and one of the last survivors of an apocalypse) has near Heroic BSOD when confessing (in fairly euphemistic language..."blue in the half-moons") that she's part black.
- Sax Rohmer's The Mystery of Fu Manchu, and to some extent the entire body of Yellow Peril fiction which it is representative of.
- Avoided and parodied in the 1980 Flash Gordon: the story basically admitted it was rather campy and old-fashioned, and the Fu Manchu IN SPACE! Ming was played by Max von Sydow, a (white) Swede.
- The same year, Peter Sellers (white Englishman) played Fu (and Nayland Smith) in The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu, an Affectionate Parody of the whole business (building on from The Goon Show in the 1950s) that makes Fu a Villain Protagonist who gets the female lead to do a Face Heel Turn and ultimately triumphs over the heroes. This is also, tellingly, the last time the character has appeared on film to date aside from a completely tongue-in-cheek gag in the "Werewolf Women of the S.S." segment of Grindhouse, in which he is played by Nicholas Cage.
- Fagin from Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist is a pretty bad Jewish stereotype. Dickens felt so bad about it later that he tried to lower the references to Fagin's Jewishness in later editions of the book, and in Our Mutual Friend included a far less stereotypical Jewish character. Will Eisner later put his own spin on the character in "Fagin the Jew".
- This is to say nothing of Oliver being such a virtuous boy himself compared with the other urchins because, as it turns out, he's got noble blood.
- Values Dissonance is even found in the early fiction of Isaac Asimov, of all people. His first stories were written when he was a young man with almost no experience of women, and his early female characters are to a woman idiotic, strident, screeching, whining, nagging harridans who don't care if their husband is saving the world, it's dinnertime! Asimov wrote in his final autobiography that he based almost all of these characters on his mother, of whom he had a very low opinion.
- He wrote a poem parodying his own works which had the line "it's enough [the hero] has a mother, other females are a bother" showing how aware of his failings he was.
- Colleen McCollough's Masters of Rome series has several mentions of the ancient Roman practice of abandoning unwanted girl babies, or throwing away their bodies (God only knows what killed them). It makes for... interesting reading.
- The protagonist of Mary Renault's The Last of the Wine is matter-of-fact about exposing unwanted infants, even though the very first sentence of the novel informs us that he just barely escaped such a fate himself.
- Also in Masters of Rome, there's a sequence where Cotta asks his niece Aurelia (Caesar's mother) why she lets her ugly slave girl follow her around. Aurelia explains how the slave's family was killed, how she was enslaved, how her former master raped her... and when Cotta says "Oh, so you feel sorry for her?", Aurelia's reply is "No, uncle. I know that she will be utterly obedient and never question me." Cotta's reaction is to be stunned and so proud of Aurelia for her utterly Roman behavior. Horrifying to modern audiences, but very true to the mentality of the time period and culture.
- Both are Truth In Television. In Roman times, refusing to perform infanticide on weaker male infants and all but the very healthiest female infants was considered a form of depravity: letting every child live meant that the healthiest wouldn't have enough to eat, and letting every daughter live meant that there would be too many women around (since a large percentage of men entered the military and either never married or married non-Romans). It was also considered weak-minded and stupid to express the least bit of sympathy toward the average slave, since it was believed that most slaves were waiting for their chance to murder their owners.
- A self-fulfilling prophecy if ever there was one.
- It very rarely happened in practice, since there was a law that if a slave murdered his master, every single slave in the household was executed. There was a notorious case in the reign of Nero when such a crime was committed, and the Senate insisted on executing every slave even though Nero disapproved.
- The first Masters of Rome novel, The First Man in Rome, opens with the "New Man" Gaius Marius negotiating with the shabby-genteel patrician Julius Caesar (grandfather of Caesar the Dictator) to marry one of his daughters (he is offered his choice of the two Julias). Not only is the negotiation incredibly cold-blooded from a modern perspective (Marius wants Julia, whom he has barely even met, for the sake of a social promotion and does not pretend otherwise; Caesar is interested only in a respectable marriage for his daughter and a financial settlement for himself), but at the conclusion Caesar asks Marius, as an afterthought, "Oh, and it won't distress you to divorce your current wife, will it?" Marius replies, "Not at all!" Marius goes home and tells his routinely-neglected wife, who never saw it coming, "I am divorcing you!" He is actually rather surprised at her angry reaction.
- Again, Truth In Television. This is how marriages were arranged in ancient Rome: the woman had no say in whom she married or, until much later than this, whether she was divorced.
- Which is why early Christianity imposing a blanket ban on divorces was Fair For Its Day.
- Not really. Early Christianity had more in common with Jewish law than Roman law, considering how long it was illegal, and the Jewish marriage contract was designed to protect the wife through difficult divorce process (this often backfired/s).
- Flatland presents the females of the titular world's sentient species as explicitly less intelligent and more emotional than the males, though they can be deadly when need be. An addendum to the later editions mentions protests regarding that issue even when the book was released in the beginning of the 20th century; likewise, revisions to the text admit how horrible females have it (the only "blessing" being that they have no memory).
- One suspects, counter-intuitively, that there might be fewer objections now: the Flatlanders are, of course, not human, and since that book was published nonhuman intelligences with significant differences between the sexes have become quite common in science fiction, with examples like the male Lyrans of Doc Smith (who never actually showed up, but were basically oversexed monkeys useful only for reproduction) to the non-sentient female Kzinti (although in that case the males bred them that way). Of course, these examples themselves have provoked controversy, and the story wasn't from those species' viewpoints as it is the Flatlanders'.
- The dissonance may have been intentional even back then; Flatland was in large part a satire of Victorian England, and the women a satire of that culture's views on gender. It could also be a case of Unreliable Narrator. In The Annotated Flatland, Ian Stewart suggests that, if you look at what the women in the story actually do, they are a lot smarter than the narrator A. Square thinks they are.
- Ian Stewart's sequel of 2001, Flatterland, updates the whole setting by making the protagonist A Square's granddaughter, Victoria Line (the book is full of horrible puns, I'm afraid). At the end, it's discovered that the women aren't just lines, but flat shapes like the men: it's just that they poke out into a supersymmetry dimension
- Gene Stratton-Porter's 1904 novel Freckles is based in large part on the notion that the hero, raised in an orphanage, thinks he's the bastard child of abusive parents, and therefore unworthy of love or respect. The other characters, particularly the love interest, spend much of their time convincing himself that he is worthy — not because he's a good and decent man himself and therefore it doesn't matter what his parents are, but because his goodness and "fineness" prove that his parents must necessarily have been upstanding, righteous, and probably well-to-do. The clear implication is that an abused child is unworthy of compassion, because as the offspring of abusive parents it must be innately incapable of anything good.
- Agatha Christie could be the patron saint of Values Dissonance, with many of her characters holding beliefs appropriate for her time period yet now outdated by modern standards, but her most infamous example would have to be the controversy over the title of And Then There Were None, which started out as Ten Little Niggers. When that was viewed too offensive, it was changed to Ten Little Indians. And when that was viewed as too offensive, it was changed to the now commonly-used title And Then There Were None.
- The game averts this by using the less controversial title, and changing the poem to "Ten Little Sailor Boys". This wasn't quite so averted with the Russian film version, however, which has the title Desyat Negrityat which roughly translates to Ten Little Negroe Boys.
- Likewise, James Joyce's Ulysses used the word "nigger" with impunity. It referred to "nigger lips" three times, for example. This is probably just cultural differences, though: Ireland had essentially no non-white population, and the word tended to be used as an equivalent to "Negro". It was only when Ireland began synching up with America that it was realised that that word should probably not be used, and it began to get edited out.
- Similarly, the American habit of censoring that racial taunt as 'the N word' (and only that one, there's no "K-word" for "kike" or "D-word" for "dyke") seems odd to fellow Westerners because it's treating the word as a regular sexual or eschatalogical profanity like the F-word.
- Once you realize that, in America, "nigger" is considered by far the most offensive word in the entire English language, far worse than any other sexual or racial slurs or profanities, its censorship begins to make more sense. Using the word "nigger" in public in America can invite violent retribution, and not necessarily from black people.
- Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales was a collection of tales, many featuring some incredibly un-PC events and viewpoints. However, because each tale is heavily influenced by the various tellers' prejudices, it's difficult to gauge Chaucer's own opinions on the matter. For example, the Nun tells an incredibly racist blood libel portraying Jews killing a Christian child. However, the Nun herself is shown to be a shallow twit. While Chaucer likely wasn't much friendlier to Jews than his contemporaries, the seriousness of the Nun's Tale is inconclusive.
- Popular opinion places this as the reason Victor Hugo killed off the protagonist of Les Miserables, Valjean. The book was written about 19th Century France for 19th Century France, and in 19th Century France, a criminal is a criminal until he dies not a criminal. Letting Valjean live, which would seem the logical choice today, would seem a Karma Houdini to 19th Century France. Mind you, with Valjean's sympathetic portrayal throughout, as well as the critique of the class system disguised as a Betty And Veronica, one could form a fairly solid argument that M. Hugo was not very fond of The Rules Of 19th Century France(tm).
- Alternatively, his death had more to do with the fact that that 19th century stories tend to end with the main character either married (or about to marry), dead, or in despair. Valjean was "too old" to get married by 19th century literary conventions. Indeed, Victor Hugo very often had his main characters die at the end of his novels, even when they were young, innocent and in love. Marius and Cosette's Happy Ending is quite the exception. Read Notre-Dame de Paris (aka The Hunchback Of Notre Dame) for another example that ends like this.
- On the subject of Marius and Cosette, modern female readers are likely to have their skin crawl off when reading about the early parts of their "courtship" (or, in modern terms, Marius' stalking of Cosette). However, when the novel was written, Marius' extreme shyness, his ardent desire to see Cosette and holding her on a kind of mental pedestal all came across as intensely romantic. (It doesn't help that many of the older female readers of the time would not have objected to having a cute twentysomething follow them around like a lost puppy in the slightest.)
- Homer's Iliad centers around women being treated as pieces of property, to be looted in warfare. The play The Trojan Women was already deconstructing this in ancient Athens.
- This troper has always been baffled by the veneration of Achilles. There are readers out there who seem to think his falling in love with Penthesilea as she died is highly romantic. Clearly they only know this story by hearsay or the sanitised versions — and don't know exactly what he did to her corpse afterwards....
- For an even greater Values Dissonance, check out the Odyssey, where Odysseus brags about the sacking and raping of the Cicones. Of course, this angered Athena, who set them adrift.
- Virgil's Aeneid serves as an example from a Roman perspective, Aeneas is much more concerned with protecting his men than Odysseus was. That is, he shows some interest in protecting his men.
- The Sherlock Holmes novel The Hound of the Baskervilles has an example which also qualifies as Science Marches On: a secondary character is an expert on phrenology and various racial "sciences" of the day, traits which would certainly be villainous in any modern work. Watson clearly finds the phrenology absurd but is tactful enough not to say it aloud, especially how the character gushes over the shape of Holmes' head and wishes for it to be displayed should the Great Detective depart from his mortal coil.
- Also, as an interesting mark of how perspectives change, when Doyle depicted Mormons as a Religion Of Evil, that wasn't considered controversial, whereas his similarly unsympathetic depiction of the Ku Klux Klan was. Nowadays, this is essentially reversed. He supposedly later issued an apology to the Mormons after being taken to task by them.
- In The Yellow Face (A reference to a mask), when the mother of a mixed-race daughter showed Holmes and Watson a locket with a picture of herself and her black husband, Watson commented that the man was "strikingly handsome and intelligent-looking, but bearing unmistakable signs upon his features of his African descent." Authors of the time would often describe sympathetic non-white characters as being very attractive except for their non-white features.
- The Three Gables opens with a black man in an ugly salmon-colored suit coming in to threaten Holmes. Both Holmes himself and Watson's narration insult him repeatedly, in a manner that would certainly be considered racist today; Holmes repeatedly refers to Steve Dixie's smell and even comments about his 'woolly head'. And it has a Jewish villainness. Way to go, Sir Arthur!
- A non-racial Holmes example is the Great Detective's drug use, which began being dissonant when Cocaine started being banned, but is particularly noticeable when the stories are billed as young adult literature. A common perception is that Watson was essentially Holmes' drug dealer. This is one of the things addressed and debunked in the pastiche The Seven Percent Solution. It is Canon that Watson disapproved of Holmes' excessive drug use, when he bothered to mention it at all. He even mentioned it to Holmes at the beginning of The Sign Of Four, but it didn't help. In Victorian times, a gentleman could freely walk to any drugstore and buy as much cocaine and heroin as he saw fit. The Jeremy Brett adaptation addressed this by having Watson clearly and repeatedly voicing his disapproval about Holmes' drug taking. Finally in "The Devil's Foot", Brett (with the explict approval of Doyle's granddaughter) had Holmes give up this habit and bury his syringe.
- In one of Doyle's "Professor Challenger" stories, The Poison Belt
, the Earth pases through a toxic region in the Ether , which gradually kills knocks out the entire population of the world... in order of darkest to lightest skin. Professor Challenger's plan to protect people from its effects was offered to his friends, but not to his servants.
- If the Discworld novel Men at Arms seems harsh in its depiction of firearms (i.e. The Gonne being an Artifact Of Doom that turns all but the strongest-willed into vengeful murderers), keep in mind that the UK has notably strict gun control laws banning handguns entirely and regulating rifles and shotguns to almost the same effect. Also, in the story, an almost-missed point is that The Gonne doesn't want to be duplicated, because that would reduce its specialness and remove its power. Still, in the novel The Truth, firearms are, by then, illegal, but Mr. Pin has what amounts to a spring loaded pistol. Legally this is considered a crossbow; however the book says that if he was caught with this weapon by the police, his unofficial punishment for having it would be worse than the official one of owning a firearm. Similar comments are made about a similar weapon possessed by Inigo Skimmer in The Fifth Elephant.
- On the other hand, Night Watch in the same series explicitly mocks the idea of a weapons ban, pointing out "criminals didn't obey the law. It was more or less the job description."
- Actually, this troper read it as sending up the Fridge Logic of a lot of the gun control side of the argument by making The Gonne exactly what they think it is. It helps that it was already established that things can be, well, subjected to the same forces as gods are in Discworld: if everybody believes guns have evil mind control powers...
- Note that the Gonne in question, following its theft from the Assassins Guild, had functioned exclusively as a means for murder (including cop killing) and political assassination. Not once was it actually employed for hunting or defending innocent life, meaning there was no reservoir of belief to support Narrative Causality's taking the stance that the thing wasn't innately evil.
- Note also that British readers are capable of reading the book without seeing it as a metaphor for gun control. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
- Also, the Gonne is not evil because it's a gun. It's dangerous because it's one of a kind and more powerful than any other available weapon.
- In the book Gone with the Wind, all the sympathetic male characters (except Rhett, who is something of a rogue) are in the Klan. Moreover, all the black characters speak in a stereotypical slave dialect, while the white characters speak perfect English. Readers might also be surprised by the fact that Gerald and Ellen name each of their three infants who died in infancy Gerald Jr, as reusing names lost to infant mortality was a common practice at the time.
- It's not so much that they "speak perfect English". The problem is that the slaves' accent is literally spelled out while the whites' accent is not, as if somehow the white accent isn't an accent at all. (Some Americans do this unconsciously when they say that someone from the Midwest "doesn't have an accent". Oh yes they certainly do, and as strong an accent as any other.)
- In the James Bond novel Goldfinger, Bond "cures" a lesbian by being sexy enough.
- Ian Fleming was pretty bad about this. Pussy Galore was far from the worst case — try From Russia With Love, where not only does Darko Kerim hold a stated belief in the Rape Is Love principle, but his own history with women also makes his role as a sympathetic character (one of a very small group of people Bond considers friends) border on the absurd.
- Not to mention the book Live And Let Die with its over-the-top crazy racism. Hilariously, James Bond's Texan sidekick Felix Leiter tries to educate him about black culture in America.
- Even more ironically, Leiter was portrayed by a black man in the Casino Royale reboot with Daniel Craig.
- Felix makes a joke in Diamonds Are Forever about how you can't call a measure of whiskey a "jigger" anymore; now you have to call it a Jegro.
- In "The Hildebrand Rarity", Bond muses that "the only trouble with beautiful Negresses is that they don't know anything about birth control." Admittedly, he was having a conversation about Nigeria at the time, where contraception is indeed less prevalent, but the line's still jarring.
- Helen Bannerman's children's story Little Black Sambo has long left a bad taste in people's mouths due to the horrible "darky" caricatures that illustrated most of the early publications. However, apart from this and the name of the title character (which became a racial slur after the fact), the story is rather innocuous and has been retold (sans Unfortunate Implications) several times in recent years.
- It may also be worth mentioning that, seeing how she spent much of her life in India, Bannerman's original target audience was comprised of Indian children. The fact that British usage of the period made it reasonable to use the term "black" to refer to dark-skinned Indians is a whole different level of dissonance.
- Although not as much as most of 15th and 16th century literature, where a "black girl" or a "nut brown maid" would always mean a young white woman with dark hair.
- All of which is kind of odd, given that for This Troper, the beloved tale of Little Black Sambo was one of her first exposures to any story with an entirely Black cast (darker than the "Black" characters she sees nowadays, too). She never saw the racism and to this day wonders why depicting cute little black people with funny names gets people up in arms (cute little white people with funny names are okay?). Though, admittedly, the copy she's got may not have the original illustrations.
- Because depicting ethnics as child-like is still a condescending stereotype which has been the excuse for all sort of bad things in the real world.
- The mentality that all ethnic minorities must be presented as perfect, superhuman intellectual and philosophical elites also opens up a can of worms because it still means that you aren't treating them like "real" people. This is one of the reasons why the "Magic negro" is reviled.
- Which is why most people just want minorities given the same breadth of personality that others do.
- To illustrate (pun not intended), here
◊ is an example of some earlier artwork for the story. Contrast that with the cover of one of the more recent editions and, well, you see the difference...
- The Warhammer 40000 novel series Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain have as main characters Commissars who don't field-execute their men very often. This is more in line with 20th — 21st century military practice than the rest of the Imperium, arguably in order to keep the characters sympathetic.
- Ciaphas Cain almost subverts this, in that the title Commissar will tell anyone who asks that he refrains from shooting his own men because he knows that if they like him, he won't be the victim of "accidental" friendly fire like many, many Commissars tend to be. However, it's plainly obvious that, while he certainly believes in this logic, he also genuinly cares for them.
- In the Doc Savage novels, Doc runs a facility known as "the Crime College", where captured crooks are given brain surgery to wipe out criminal impulses and retrained into productive law-abiding citizens. This leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many modern readers, and some later authors have gone so far as to suggest that Doc was lobotomising criminals. (The college was phased out in later novels, probably as a result of Science Marches On.)
- The Charge of the Light Brigade was treated at the time, most notably in Tennyson's poem, as an act of tragic heroism, exemplifying military courage despite the unfortunate mix-up in the orders making it all a futile blunder. A watching French general commented "it's magnificent, but it's not war". The modern sentiment is that it wasn't heroic at all, just tragic, and above all an indictment of a military system that made soldiers "lions led by donkeys". The lesser-known but much more amusing part of that quote, "it is stupidity/madness" would suggest that he caught it well enough. Unfortunately it seems to still work that way... but at least communication speed means botched orders can (usually) be corrected in time.
- What most critics of The Charge of the Light Brigade don't realize it that it worked. Despite heavy losses it went through and the Russian cannon were stopped.
- On the other hand, they were the wrong cannons and the action (and subsequent rout) broke the momentum of the allied counter-attack, leading to the Russians holding the captured redoubts and winning the battle.
- There's an interesting dissonance in how modernity tends to look at "fops" in both historical fiction and works actually written in the 18th century. There's often an assumption that a man wearing makeup, facial powder, and elaborate clothing must either be Ambiguously Gay or a Camp Gay, even though this was the style of the time for heterosexual men. Many people dressing this way were more along the lines of being Casanova. (Possibly including Casanova.)
- To make matters even more dissonant, male characters derided as "effeminate" in seventeenth- and eighteenth-century literature aren't any sort of Camp Gay. Instead, they're hyper-heterosexuals whose feminine mannerisms are supposedly a way of attracting women.
- Indeed, this "superficial-femininity as a means of attracting females" has seen a recurrence in several modern subcultures, most notably the Anglo-European Glam Rock
scene of the early- to mid-1970s and those influenced by it, and the Japanese Visual Kei scene. Although both of these did include some degree of bisexuality, they had a profound influence on later subcultures which more closely replicated the feminine-but-hyper-heterosexual fops of the 17th and 18th centuries; most notably the Glam Metal scene of the mid-1980s
- Romance of the Three Kingdoms (the novel, not the anime) manages to have a TON of Values Dissonance because it is set in early-AD China (the main story is from 184 to 234) and because of the Confucian moral slant of the novel. Some of the most extreme examples are ironically from the main protagonist Liu Bei, who sometimes puts Honor Before Reason to the point where other good guys, despite sometimes having similar moral slants, have to call him on it.
- It's not helped by the fact that Liu Bei comes across like a Designated Hero quite often (especially in pure Values Dissonance scenes like throwing his infant son at the ground because the valuable general who managed to save the child could have been killed in the process, and Liu Bei considered his general far more valuable than his son), and Cao Cao is more of a Designated Villain. Many people who read the books today consider Cao Cao to be the far more noble, honorable, and likeable character.
- Likable maybe, since Cao Cao's scenes are often actually pretty funny, but noble and honorable? Cao Cao agrees to assassinate high officials multiple times, constantly runs away with his tail between his legs, at one point murders an old family friend and his household over a stupid misunderstanding and finally attempts to take over China as the new Wu emperor (which he, posthumously, actually manages.) A lot of things describe Cao Cao, but "honorable" or even "nice" is not one of them. His most famous quote is "Better I wrong the world than that the world wrong me!" for a reason.
- One of the most blatant examples of this is when Liu Bei stays at the home of a commoner. The commoner goes out hunting and promises him a fresh kill but fails to kill anything, so the would-be hunter murders his wife and serves her for dinner instead. When Liu Bei finds out, he weeps tears of gratitude for the man's noble sacrifice.
- What we modern readers consider a Mary Sue was considered an acceptable type once (see Little Eva in Uncle Toms Cabin). More idealistic characters were accepted in certain eras than now, types like the Princess Classic and Pollyanna.
- The 18th-century idea of children's literature and poetry was painfully moralistic and didactic. Goody Two-Shoes was an actual book. This trend was mocked by Lewis Carroll in his Alicein Wonderland books.
- Victor Hugo's Notre Dame De Paris. Frollo's obsession with Esmeralda is regarded as twisted and inappropriate because he's a priest, and supposed to be celibate. It's highly questionable because he's of (minor) nobility, and she's a Gypsy, the lowest social class in Paris. But there's no hesitation over the fact that he's thirty-six years old and she's barely sixteen.
- While it is still regarded as a masterpiece of world literature, War And Peace is not known for espousing the feminist philosophy. It never becomes so bad that women are considered inferior in the book, but anyone looking for it (and ignoring the actual morals of the book) could probably find enough subtext to dismiss it as male chauvinist propaganda.
- Buck of Left Behind blackmailed a woman who accidentally outed herself as a lesbian with revealing said lesbianism if she revealed information she had, that she legitimately thought the public had the right to know. Chloe, his wife, who used to be a realistic, fairly nice woman before she was 'saved', laughed about said blackmail.
- Even better, the scene in question plays out exactly like the opening to a standard smear campaign to harass a woman out of her position (She's his boss, who he's been disrespecting, belittling, and treating like his secretary because he thinks she's not good enough). Buck brings up, out of nowhere, "Well, what if I go around telling everyone you're a lesbian? How will you like that?" It's not even clear initially that she's a lesbian, since her response is simply to panic at the idea he's going to start spreading the rumor and deny it, not that this stops them from taking this as proof. Later Buck takes over her office and, when she comes in to demand to know what he's doing, he attempts to kick the door into her face. This is, of course one of his great heroic actions in the books, and also totally hilarious, even more than blackmailing her.
- Erm, that's not exactly how it happened. At the end of book 2, Nicolae placed Buck in charge of the newspaper he worked for, and so Buck, who continues to work out of Chicago, is now Verna's boss. Furthermore, he took over her office earlier in the book, when World War 3 broke out and he was trying to find out what happened to everyone. He's still a huge jerk, but at least he didn't earn his position by blackmailing his boss.
- There's a huge blog dedicated to discussing the Values Dissonance
and general craptastic writing in that series. Notable examples: The protagonist Airline Pilot who considers himself a hero for refusing to ride on a bus from his plane to O Hare Terminal, even though this requires him to walk around plane wrecks and ignore the dead and wounded inside. And the protagonist Reporter who discovers an International Conspiracy after it murders his close friend, and then runs right to the head of that conspiracy and trades silence for his life.
- Simon Black in the Antarctic (1956). While the patronizing attitudes toward a lost tribe of Neanderthals was expected, one thing that stood out was how contemporary novels about Antarctica emphasise its beauty, whereas this novel went on about how terrible the place was.
- In the same way, older writing tends to portray rainforests as hellish environments, challenges to be heroically overcome, rather than precious ecosystems.
- To be fair, if you're stuck hacking your way through a rain forest with nothing more than a machete, compass, and pith helmet, all that malaria and yellow fever can make it into a pretty awful place. This might be a Science Marches On, in that sicence has made rainforests more tolerable.
- In The Last Guru by Daniel Pinkwater, a sudden increase in spirituality in America leads to the world economy crashing.
- Frank Herbert's The Dosadi Experiment features an out of nowhere aside that homosexuals make ideal suicide bombers, as they already don't have to worry about spreading their genes. The number of terrible jokes that could arise from that statement just fills it with Unfortunate Implications
- Works such as To Kill A Mocking Bird and The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn contain period-appropriate depictions of racism and racist epithets, causing them to be criticized as racist books despite their clear stance against racism.
- In the original Doctor Doolittle books, the African animals were portrayed with considerably more dignity and sympathy than the human natives.
- The king is shown to be pissed off at the whites because the last white man who came to his country first dug up holes everywhere looking for gold, and started to kill lots of elephants for ivory when he didn't find some. And the second book introduces an African character who has studied at a university and loves Cicero. (He still dislikes algebra and shoes, on the third hand.)
- The last is a standard English trope: the degraded, disgusting African cannibal/murderer who is also a graduate of Oxford or Cambridge.
- While the king's dislike of white people is justified, the later scene with Prince Bumpo wanting to be "a white prince" is more than racist enough to make up for it, by today's standards.
- The greatest naturalist in the world, greater even than Charles Darwin, is an Indian shaman, who is also a great warrior. He's illiterate, sometimes naive and quite realistic in the description.
- Sir Walter Scott gives an ambivalent portrayal of Jews in Ivanhoe. Isaac and Rebecca are both sympathetic characters who constantly suffer from unfair persecution. However, the book still indulges rather heavily on Jewish stereotypes by making Isaac a typically greedy, rich Jewish usurer. On the other hand, Isaac frequently shows that his love for his daughter outweighs his love of money, and his daughter Rebecca shows no signs of greed.
- And to modern sensibilities at least (uncertain if this was intentional on Scott's part) Rebecca comes across as a far more sensible and generally better person than the blond, English heroine. In fact this troper doesn't know anyone who doesn't think Ivanhoe would have been better off marrying Rebecca. Well, other than both of them being cast out of their respective cultures that is.
- That was played with in the book The Knight's Castle, which was heavily based on the plot of Ivanhoe. The main characters (four children) wonder why Ivanhoe didn't marry Rebecca instead of Rowena. They later go on quests from the story and in the end, Ivanohoe does chose Rebecca.
- In lines 53-56 of Juvenal's fifth Satire, he describes a black waiter 'you would not want to meet by night among the tombs on the Latin Way.' This is because ghosts were believed to be black instead of white in those days, the afterlife being dark and gloomy in general, not because of the stereotypes now current in some parts of the world.
- In the novel Lord Of The Flies, the heretofore admirable and sensible character Piggy shouts at Jack's tribe "Do you want to be a bunch of painted niggers, or do you want to be sensible like Ralph is?" The phrase was changed in later editions: some substitute it with "a bunch of painted Indians" (which may have been a case of Acceptable Targets at the time of the reprinting, but by today's standards isn't a whole lot better), and some substitute it with "a bunch of painted savages" (which is probably the best and most fitting to the story).
- Robert A Heinlein's Have Space Suit — Will Travel (1958). While trudging across the surface of the Moon in a life and death situation, Kip takes dexedrine tablets when he gets exhausted. There is a major Values Dissonance in that the reason he has dexedrine is that when he rebuilt a surplus space suit as a hobby while living on Earth, the town doctor wrote him prescriptions and the druggist he worked for filled them so the suit could contain the original medical supplies. This is when no one, including himself, ever expected him to actually go to the Moon. It is about impossible to imagine a modern law abiding doctor and pharmacist agreeing to provide dexedrine to a minor no matter how impressed they were at his hard work in rebuilding a space suit (about like turning a junked car into a pristine one). And this is a young adult story!
- The Sheik, a 1919 novel, is practically the epitome of this trope. Young, independent heroine who has no use for traditional feminine values takes a trip into the desert and is kidnapped by a cringeworthy-stereotype of an Arab Sheik. Said Sheik proceeds to rape her more or less daily, giving her what is actually a fairly accurately written case of severe PTSD. The dissonance sets in when, halfway through the novel, she realizes she's in love with him because he's 'mastered' her, made her realize she's a woman and weak and needs a man, and proceeds to give up her personality and do whatever he wants to make him happy. While he eventually falls in love with her, too, he feels so terrible about what he did that he wants to send her away so he won't hurt her anymore, and only agrees to let her stay because she tries to shoot herself in the head. And even today, a lot of people consider this romantic. (The heroine's abrupt change of heart could easily be read as Stockholm Syndrome, but nobody knew what that was in 1919 and that clearly wasn't the author's intent.)
- You forgot the cherry on the sundae of dissonance: he's not even Arabic, but rather the product of an English father and a Spanish mother. God forbid our heroine should fall in love with someone who's not white!
- If now there are readers for Fan Fic with fantasies of this kind, why not then?
- One View of the Question by Rudyard Kipling is about Values Dissonance among other things. Only, this time the narrator is Shafiz Ullah Khan and readers encounter a good (and very cynical) exposition of how thoroughly perverted, small-minded, self-righteous and plain stupid "progressive" and "modern" Europeans themselves may seem from outside... complete with hopeless attempts to understand their quirks.
- Mark Twain in The Innocents Abroad offhandedly poured a cup of acid on purportedly respectable books of travelers bragging what "great dangers" they encountered in moderately visited locations and what "brave explorers" these tourists were, by presenting similar situations through his own eyes.
- Tristan And Iseult, a classic romance about true love, is full of the titular couple engaging in behavior that for this troper at least seemed to be absolutely reprehensible. Of course this is all justified by their having true love... except this "true" love only came as a result of their accidentily drinking a love potion. Before that Iseult hated Tristan to the point of wanting to kill him. But apparently getting drugged is enough to make their love justify infedelity on both sides, deceit, the death of a dwarf whose crimes were being ugly and telling King Mark the truth about them fooling around and then proving it, and Tristan taking a young boy's dog.
- Don Quixote has the usually lovable Sancho Panza fantasizing about getting rich selling Africans into slavery, as well as a man who raped one woman and abducted another being instantly forgiven and counted as a friend by the heroes as soon as he agrees to let go of the second woman and marry the first. And let's not even get into the stuff about Muslims, which sadly probably isn't Values Dissonance for a lot of modern readers...
- This Troper would like to remind you however, that Don Quixote is, at its heart, a satire. Its main purpose is to ridicule what was normally found in most stories of the time, so how you interpret this is up to you.
- Actually Don Quixote is notable for having the character of Ricote, a sympathetic Morisco (descendant of Muslims converted to Catholicism after the conquest of Granada), right at the time the Moriscos were subject to an extensive political bashing that led to their final expulsion by a royal decree in 1609. And when 'real' Muslims do show up as characters in a Book within the Book set in Algeria (based, by the way, off of Cervantes' own experience as a prisoner of war in Algiers), the Arabs do get a fair good portrayal compared to the Turks, who are said to be ruthless imperialists that treat the locals as slaves (and might be a reason for Don Quixote's modern popularity in the Arab world, especially in North Africa). Hell, he even claimed the whole book was a translation from an Arabic original found in the Jewish quarter of Toledo, at a time when simple knowledge of Arabic or Hebrew was reason enough to spend some days in company of The Spanish Inquisition.
- At one point in The Great Gatsby, Jay and Nick see a car with three black men in it being driven by a white man, which prompts Jay to comment how "anything can happen in this town".
- In an earlier scene, Tom, the novel's resident Jerk Ass, claims that white race is doomed (after reading a racist screed to that effect). They are probably enjoying a laugh at Tom's expense.
- As influential a text as it it, The Bible is perhaps the most heavily affected subject of values dissonence, stemming from the fact that it is not only very old, but that values are themselves a central theme of the text. Because cultural values, even amongst Jews and Christians, have continued to develop while the Bible has remained the same, some Biblical contents may seem shocking to the modern reader. For example, while numerous passages dictate the proper way to practice slavery, which was commonplace at the time they were written (and continued to be in the West until a few centuries ago), such practice is today seen as abhorrent. Likewise, while large-scale killing by both military campaigns and God himself would not have been as objectionable during the Bronze Age, such contents may be more disturbing to modern readers. Understandably, this values dissonance has not only become the subject of frequent discussion between religious and non-religious persons, but continues to develop with regards to rapidly changing issues, such as the public's view of homosexuality.
- Also don't forget that most modern day Christians strongly believe that republics with restrictions on government is the God-given system of government, when the only system praised in the Bible is theocratic monarchy, and almost the entire history of Christendom until the 20th century was built around the idea of divine system of monarchy, with varying interpretations from feudalism, to absolute monarchy to constitutional monarchy.
- Not quite accurate. The social system that was created when the Israelis settled Caanan was anarcho-tribal — "Each man doing what was right in his own eyes, with Judges appointed to decide disputes between them". It was only after the people begged G-D for a king "so that they could be like the nations around them" that they were given one, along with a stern warning that a king would only bring them trouble in the long term. Even then, the king was not necessarily an absolute ruler, but was technically subject to the authority of the Judges and Prophets (messengers of G-D). It wasn't until the Israelis adopted pagan gods and practices that the monarchy became absolute.
- Divine Right of Kings was a pagan concept adopted from Rome and imposed on the Church at a time when it was heavily politicized; and was only barely justified through highly selective (and out-of-context) reading of scripture. Further, it was never fully accepted in Europe. The Catholic church strongly opposed it, considering itself the ultimate authority and establishing the "Two Swords" doctrine against it. It was strongest in those Protestant nation-states that established the king as both secular and religious authority. Overall, it persisted for about 200 years at most; and faced stiff opposition during that tinme, before being universally rejected in the late 18th century.
- One may consider it as little more than a handwave, but the New International (Catholic) Version of the Bible has this little passage that may be noteworthy on the matter of Values Dissonance: "Sometimes inspired searching for meaning leads to conclusions which cannot be qualified as revelations from God. Think of the "holy wars" of total destruction, fought by the Hebrews when they invaded Palestine. The search for meaning in those wars centuries later [i.e. when the Bible was written] was inspired, but the conclusions which attributed all those atrocities to the command of God were imperfect and provisional"
- In-universe example: One of the reasons wizards don't really get along that well with other magical beings in Harry Potter is due to Values Dissonance. One sore point between goblins and wizards, for example, is the definition of ownership. To wizards, the person who pays for something owns it. To goblins, the creator is the owner; the person who pays is just renting it and it should be returned to the goblin after the renter dies. A goblin betrays Harry and company to obtain Godric Gryffindor's goblin-made sword in Deathly Hallows as a result.
- There's several complaints about Mercedes Lackey's Elizabethan novels, specifically the sexual relationship between the 15 year old Elizabeth and the much older Denoriel, and the attempted seduction of Elizabeth by her stepfather Thomas Seymour. Never mind that in the 1500s a fifteen year old female is old enough to already be a mother, and that Seymour did try to seduce Elizabeth.
- ''Farmer Boy'' has numerous chapters in which Almanzo and/or his siblings stay out of school because there are more important things to do at home. The Little House books about Laura and her family are more in line with today's "You're a kid; school is your job" attitude, since Ma is a former teacher.
- Perry Mason novels. The mysteries are great, but sometimes the morals and ideas from those days can... really be distracting. There will be times where certain characters will go on long monologues about how a woman should know her place in order to keep a man, to never ask questions or inquire into his decisions or affairs, and must make it her duty to make the home heaven on earth for him. And then there's his racism in terms of Asians... in one story, he pretty much had a bunch of characters bashing on how sneaky and untrustworthy "Japs" are, and used rather unflattering terms to describe them.
- In the Chinese folk tale Water Margin, there's a section where some of the main characters (who are a part of the rebellion) are drugged at an inn. It turns out the inn is just a front for a black market for human meat. Just as the owner is about to cut them up into meatbuns, his accomplice comes back in time to stop him and tell him the identity of his would-be victims. He spares them, and when they wake up, they're so thrilled that they're "all on the same side," they decide to become sworn blood brothers with him, and act like everything is completely rosy. Nothing like becoming best friends forever with a cannibalistic serial killer.
- Hugh "Bulldog" Drummond was one of the great 'Boy's Own' adventure heroes of British literature between the wars (1920s-1930s). You rarely see him or his adventures these days, mostly because the character was jingoistic to the point of naked racism, and was incredibly anti-semitic to boot.
- Most of the 'imperial' British adventure heroes of the early twentieth century, such as the works of John Buchan, are similarly jingoistic and not without their tendency to resort to crude racial caricatures; for perhaps obvious reasons, they're particularly harsh on Germans. When put up against Drummond, however, the works of Buchan are downright progressive by comparison.
Live Action TV
- "Get Smart", which ran from 1965-1970 garnered a "G" rating by 1960's TV standards. By modern standards, the very least it could muster would be "PG" due to the numerous gunfights, explosions, stabbings, and tobacco references.
- In the original Star Trek series, the treatment of women can feel subtly sexist to the modern viewer, despite the fact that the show was usually pushing standards of equality that were radical for the time. ("But there was prejudice on Earth once! I remember reading about it in a history book!") In fact, the only reason there wasn't more obvious gender equity on the original Enterprise was Executive Meddling by nervous suits who thought the very presence of females would imply rampant promiscuity among the crew.
- The final episode of the series, "Turnabout Intruder", is a shining example of this. Originally Roddenberry said that the episode was meant to show that women didn't have the innate ability to be starship captains and would go mad if they tried, and that instead they should build a "full life" as a helpmeet to a man. Only when the enormity of this attitude (and, this troper suspects, what it would mean to his audience) was spelled out to him by women did he retract his previous statements, or pretend he never made them, and claim the episode was all about equality.
- According to producers who worked on the series, even though Gene Roddenberry did want more female characters, it was less in the name of real, honest gender equity and more in the name of skirts and tops that exemplified the Theiss Titillation Theory. But hey, at least they were there and (sometimes) involved in the plot.
- The Next Generation feels infinitely more sexist than that of the Original Series, simply because it was behind its time.
- An in-universe example applies to the Cardassians in some episodes. While they're often portrayed as an entire race of Card Carrying Villains who are Always Chaotic Evil, some episodes show a more nuanced view. The episode where Picard is captured and one of Cardassia's best torturers works him over, the torturer speaks of his own high position in society, brags about some of his other work, and even allows his small daughter to visit him while he's working. But rather than being used bluntly to confirm what a dastardly villain he is, it's more used to show that to him, and to his society, what he's doing is perfectly acceptable, and simply the way things are done and should be done, and he has nothing to be ashamed of by his daughter seeing him trying to break a fellow sentient.
- Original Trek and Next Gen are an excellent case study in Values Dissonance. One big example, whereas Kirk and company could interfere in the affairs of other planets and use force with impunity, Picard is far more of a diplomat and the Prime Directive is much more enforced. In fact, within the show and its sequels, Kirk is called out for being a "cowboy". This shift mirrors the changes in America's military and police forces where this kind of loose-cannon behavior is likewise frowned upon.
- Not really. Kirk&Co only interfere to fix, or if things become life and death.
- In a DS9 episode that takes place on the Ferengi homeworld, Quark's livelihood is threatened by his mother's profit-earning behavior, and he is scandalized by the fact that she wears clothes and when he and his brother were children, refused to chew their food for them.
- An interesting example showing change over the lifetime of the show is JAG. In early seasons, the presence of female pilots (or women in general) on warships was controversial; it was the subject of the pilot movie. Not only would this seem dated a decade later to the current audience, but female pilots and ship's crew eventually became totally unremarkable within the show itself.
- A more general example, using the "death penalty" issue mentioned above: In American TV, someone who advocates the use of the death penalty may be a little more cynical and pragmatic than the other characters, but is usually credible and well-adjusted. In British TV, anyone who wants to "bring back hanging" is at best ridiculously behind the times — most likely, they'll want to reinstate corporal punishment in schools as well, along with other supposedly Victorian institutions. At worst, they'll be draconian and narrow-minded in the extreme.
- Remember, the UK is the land where selling fast food within 50 feet of a school is a criminal offence.
- You say that as if it's a bad thing.
- British police dramas sometimes see a few exceptions, with the investigators of a particularly horrific crime resenting the fact that even if he's jailed, the killer still keeps his life. Sometimes, in the case of clearly insane serial killers, Karmic Death is employed if the writers honestly can't find a way to justify the murderer staying alive. In any other genre, though, capital punishment is viewed as a "step too far".
- Similarly, before New York's highly publicized moratorium on the death penalty, executions and the threat of execution would frequently play a role in the various Law And Order series. The writers, most of whom lived in California, seemed ignorant of the fact that capital punishment is much rarer in New York — in fact, not a single execution has been carried out since 1963.
- This ignorance seemed to be variable, as well. In one episode, Jack and crew were fretting over sending a woman to death row "for the first time ever in New York state" — two years after the show had a woman convicted and executed. Other times, they'd actually reference this fact for particularly monstrous crimes, but only in comparison to other states. For example, when one criminal had committed a crime in both New York and Texas, the ADA suggests to him as a parting shot after fruitless negotiations that they extradite him to Texas — they're "a lot quicker to throw the switch".
- On British TV in the sixties, racial slurs were commonplace and seen as normal, whilst swearing of any kind was banned. These days, nobody thinks twice about swearing (after the watershed, anyway), but racial insults have completely vanished, except when used to show how unpleasant a character the speaker is.
- Doctor Who example: In the lost second episode of "The Celestial Toymaker" (a 1966 William Hartnell serial), a character recites a version of the "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" rhyme that uses "nigger" in place of "tiger". In a family show! In the more recent audio release, this is censored by the narration.
- The change didn't happen overnight, either: "Roots?", the Are You Being Served? 1981 Christmas special, had the staff trying to track the Grace family tree so they could perform a musical number appropriate to Old Mr. Grace's background. This humble contributor was literally stunned when the closing credits rolled over most of the main cast performing an old-fashioned minstrel show, in blackface.
- To be fair, the Grace brothers are absolutely stunned and horrified at this show.
- It is interesting to track the survey data monitoring acceptability of certain words and attitudes on television. Over the past ten years (and probably for longer), public opinion has shifted such that racial and homophobic epitaphs have plummeted in acceptability, whereas other swear words have massively increased. Indeed, the table of acceptability has been turned on its head, and this is true in all age groups.
- Are You Being Served has many, many examples through the 1970s of poking fun at the culture or speech patterns of foreigners that today seem shocking in their unabashed racism.
- In addition to the above-mentioned Christmas special, another one sees Mr. Grainger spend much of the episode learning Al Jolson's "Mammy"... and ends with him in blackface. This is played for (mostly successful) laughs, as the store is looking for someone to play Santa Claus, and brought in a kid off the street to pick the best one. The kid's black. Guess which one he goes to.
- The Black and White Minstrel Show ran on the BBC on and off until 1978. That is not a typo. Nineteen hundred and seventy-eight.
- Dads Army has one example which stands out — When reciting "Eenie meenie miney mo", Private Pike renders the second line as "Catch a nigger by the toe" which would have been the way the rhyme went both in the 1940s where the show was set and the 1960s when it was written.
- Only Fools and Horses uses the N-word variation in an episode set and filmed in the '80s.
- In the Fawlty Towers episode The Germans, elderly Major Gowan describes having taken a lady friend to an India vs Pakistan cricket match and told her "Niggers are the West Indians. These people are WOGS!" This scene is now omitted whenever broadcast on the BBC before the 9pm "watershed", although it was probably intended to cross the line twice even when it was filmed.
- Basil Fawlty's clearly negative reaction to the Major's comment, combined with the Major's character being that of a potty old man at least partly living in the past, pretty much makes it guaranteed that it was intended to cross the line twice.
- This troper saw a stage production of that episode where the story was changed to make it acceptable: The Major's ladyfriend referred to West Indians as Indians and he had to correct her. The mildly sexist idea that a woman couldn't tell the difference is apparently still okay!
- A quasi-real life example from Iron Chef: In episode 284 (Potato Battle), Canadian challenger Michael Noble created an appetizing lamb-and-potato dish and started to lay it out, casserole-style. To this American viewer's eyes, this was completely normal (and the dish looked awesome). The Japanese panel, on the other hand, reacted with dismay at the presentation, as if none of them had ever even seen a casserole before. (Noble lost, leading many to believe it was that moment of dissonance that cost him the battle).
- Another sort of values dissonance could be seen between the way the original Iron Chef is judged versus the judging on Iron Chef America. Apparently in Japan, watching celebrities eat is a big entertainment deal, and a lot of TV focuses around this, so naturally the judges on the original show are almost always celebrities, with the very occasional actual food critic thrown in. The American version seemed to think that maybe, y'know, food critics should judge a cooking competition, and the ratio of critics to celebrities is usually flipped.
- Not to mention when Bobby Flay was on the show and celebrated by standing on his cutting board. Instant pariah to the Japanese people, because they saw it as a sign of flagrant disrespect. (Or, at least, everybody on the production team.) Flay caught on quickly enough — in his second appearance, he made sure to push the cutting board aside before jumping on the counter. That match, incidentally, he won.
- He didn't push it aside, he picked it up, jumped on the counter and threw it across the room as a Take That to the people that had complained last time. Of course, he still looked like a knob, so...
- In another Iron Chef example, when Iron Chef is shown in Australia it sometimes has a "contains scenes that may disturb some viewers". This is because the people on the show have no qualms about doing things like chopping up a live octopus that is still crawling around on the cutting board and trying to escape. Western audiences tend to be quite a bit more squeamish about that sort of thing.
- Also, French actress Julie Dreyfus flatly refused to taste a challenger's dish because it contained whale meat.
- Yet another: Episode 73 (Stingray Battle), Chef Noboru Inoue — boss and mentor to challenger Yoshihide Koga — spent almost the entire show standing on the sideline, getting drunk on red wine. The camera even catches him punching assistants on two separate occasions. On an American production, any one of those examples would've seen Inoue quietly hustled backstage — at a minimum. And the most of the footage would probably never make the airwaves. Here, the attitude of the commentators was "mildly scolding". The loss of dignity seemed more important than the fact that there's a drunk guy on the floor punching people.
- Yet another example — with broader cultural implications. Whenever one of the chefs displays a portrait of a deceased loved one/mentor on their side of the stadium (such as Chen, in his King Of The Iron Chefs matches, displaying portraits of both of his deceased parents). To the original Japanese audience (and to Asian culture in general), this is a perfectly respectable way to show respect to your elders (and at the same time asking them to watch over you and grant you luck). To Western eyes, even ones who are aware of the underlying culture... it's just creepy.
- That might be an American thing. I'm British and, while I've never seen such a thing in a TV show, the idea of displaying pictures of dead loved ones in such a venue strikes me as rather sweet; a way of showing your respect and affection for them.
- It's not an American thing. This American troper sees absolutely nothing unusual about it either. Granted, I'm Italian-American, and Italians place almost as strong an emphasis on family loyalty as the Japanese do...
- Michelle's character arc in Degrassi High no longer plays remotely like it did in 1990. She moves out of her house at age 16 to escape a reactionary father who doesn't want her to go out with friends after school, or to date (especially not a black boy). She has mixed feelings about him — he's a bully, but he means well and he has trouble changing his old-fashioned ways. Eighteen years later, when the standards of what's acceptable for American and Canadian teens have changed, he seems utterly evil, and his attempts to make peace seem like a Manipulative Bastard softening her up for the kill.
- The premiere episode of Bones, has several characters question main character Brennan about how she is dealing with her parents' murder, and admonish her for not sharing her feelings about it. In other countries where more emphasis is culturally placed on privacy, even asking such personal questions would be considered incredibly rude behavior.
- Americans wearing their hearts on their sleeves is a common source of Values Dissonance for viewers even from culturally similar countries like England and Australia.
- This American troper found the scene odd as well. The whole thing seems to be more a TV culture artifact than anything else, and it would be an incredibly rude question where I live. On the other hand America has at least 3 distinct cultural identities, so it might be a middle-to-upper-class urban thing.
- Even Monty Pythons Flying Circus is not immune. Watch the Erizabeth L episode and prepare to cringe not only at a drawn-out Japanese Ranguage joke, but the sight of Terry Jones in yellowface (and at the end, blackface).
- It has nothing to do with the Japanese. Erizabeth L is a movie about Queen Elizabeth I directed by a Spanish man and it makes fun of the Spanish lisp.
- Er, no. Watch it again. The director is a Spaniard pretending to be Japanese.
- The Kids in the Hall had Mississippi Gary, a black Blues Singer from the American South played by a white Canadian.
- Skins has a somewhat... casual attitude towards teenage sex, which significantly freaks out the leftpondian audience; the Brits, on the other hand, view it as merely as an over-the-top if, at heart, accurate depiction.
- Values Dissonance is humorously referred to in a Not Only But Also Sketch as a reason why Peter Cook can't see the joke in Leonardo's Da Vinci 'cartoon'. "It's a different culture, Pete, it's italianate. For example, the Mousetrap did terribly in Pakistan'.
- Barney Miller has an episode
where a woman comes into the police station distraught and says she's been raped. When it turns out it was her husband, it's treated as a big joke and she learns her lesson that she should put out. Words cannot describe how cringe worthy this is now.
- The latest Values Dissonance shitstorm regarding Australia has been due to a sketch on Hey Hey Its Saturday, their Expy of The Gong Show, where a group of performers did a blackface Jackson Five routine called the Jackson Jive. Two of the judges were Australian, and were long-time members of the judge panel. The third judge was an American guest star. While the two Australian judges had no problems with the skit (blackface has little stigma in Australia compared to America due to a lack of history surrounding the performance), the American was not so happy with the act.
Music
- The song "Same Old Lang Syne" by Dan Fogelberg is about a chance meeting between former lovers who have since gone their separate ways. They talk with each other about their life, buy a six-pack of beer at a liquor store after failing to find an open bar, split it, reminisce, and drive away to go on living their lives as they had been doing. The offhand reference to driving after drinking alcohol introduces an element of Squick into what is otherwise a heartfelt romantic ballad. The song was written in 1981, which was before all the "Don't drink and drive" Public Service Announcements began to appear. Values Dissonance can be Newer Than They Think.
- Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado has some of this: a few songs use the word "nigger", which is changed for modern productions (there's a long-standing tradition of changing the lyrics to G&S songs anyway). Many have criticized the operetta for making fun of the Japanese, but it is almost certainly meant to be a satire of British society.
- In Mozart's opera Don Giovanni, Zerlina wins back her fiance's good graces by singing him an aria inviting him to beat her.
Theater
- The ending of Annie Get Your Gun, in which the female main character throws a target shooting competition and gives up a successful show-business career in order to win the heart of the man who was jealous of her success, is a classic example of something that seems outrageous today that would have seemed completely reasonable when it was written. In Real Life, the opposite happened: Annie Oakley's husband gave up his sharpshooting career for hers.
- Annie Get Your Gun was written deliberately to be post-war propaganda, to lure women out of the factories and back into the kitchen.
- Put simply, in the ancient Greek play Antigone, the title character wants to bury her brother, against the wishes of her uncle the king. In ancient Greece, they would see Antigone as caught between two horrible options; not honoring the dead, or defying her rightful ruler. Thanks to liberalism, individualism, feminism and the separation of church and state, a modern reader would see Antigone as rebelling against a corrupt and authoritarian state, with the only problem being the possibility of getting caught doing it.
- However, because Antigone seems to be unquestionably doing the right thing to modern eyes, modern performances of the play usually shift the focus to her uncle, and instead emphasize his two horrible options; condemning his niece and nephew to dishonorable deaths as is required by the laws of the city, or placing his family above those laws by burying his nephew and sparing his niece.
- Oddly, admitting the rule was wrong and repealing it never seems to occur to him even in the updated versions.
- This troper thinks there are two reasons for that. One, he would then be acting as a tyrant - in the modern, not the Greek sense - and while Creon does seem to have been a rather morose chap, disrespecting the city's burial laws would probably end his political career, and the union of his head with the rest of his body. Two, burial laws are often based on religious beliefs: an enemy of the city, however reasonable his enmity was, would be considered to weaken the city if buried on its soil. If Creon overruled this law, he'd essentially be saying that he himself was above the law.
- Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew feels like a big chauvinistic Author Tract nowadays. What made it worse was that Kate, at one point, actually soliloquized on why she was so self-willed, blunt, and (let's be honest) irascible... and sounded perfectly reasonable. She's the ultimate Tsundere, gone horribly, horribly wrong.
- The current beliefs involved allowing a man to beat his wife to get her to agree. In contrast, Pettruchio vows to never strike Kate and uses only psychological torture. In those times, he was considered to be very soft on her. Modern interpretations generally either play up Kate as a willing conspirator in lampooning society (arguably, her last soliloquy about the proper place of women in society being under men is exaggerated to the point of satire), suggest that Kate was unhappy in pushing everyone away and it took extreme measures to crack her armor and realize that there was a middle ground, or play up the play-in-a-play premise and suggest that the contents of the show were intended to teach Sly to stand up for himself, this last interpretation usually leading to an added closing scene where his attempts to bully his wife end disastrously for him. A lot of it comes down to how a particular troupe interprets it.
- Some productions of Taming have made clear that both Petruchio and Kate were acting tongue-in-cheek in acts 4 and 5. Petruchio thought the gender-roles system exemplified by Bianca and her suitors was ridiculous, and wanted a wife who agreed. Therefore, he exaggerated the system until Kate showed she understood what he was doing by playing along with his most absurd exaggerations. Her final speech was performed as mocking the other women and men who had to settle for their relationships when she and Petruchio could go off and be real partners.
- When Moonlighting did this play in an episode, they changed the ending. And the middle. And, well, largely the entire thing, but mostly the ending.
- Given how Shakespeare used very few stage directions, modern adapations have tended to interpret the relationship between Kate and Petrichio in many different ways, the most popular being that Kate delivers her final speech sarcastically, indicating that she was only pretending to be obedient so that she could get Petruchio to go along with her (signified with a wink). In the Richard Burton adaptation, it was played that the two really did love each other and Kate still one-upped Petruchio at the end by sneaking out of the feast while he bragged, leaving him to chase her while looking foolish.
- Christopher Marlowe's The Jew Of Malta is supposedly a horrific portrayal of a well-poisoning, nun-killing Jewish moneylender. To This Troper, though, Barabbas (the eponymous Jew) is a gorgeous, funny anti-heroic small businessman (and a blatant Author On Board) who runs a brilliant one-man rebellion against the greedy, taxing, anti-Semitic Prince of Malta and the vain, degenerate, lascivious priests who vex him. Sure, he dies in the end, and the Blues Brothers end up in jail, and the party animals of Animal House are kicked out of Faber College. Are you having trouble thinking of who to root for?
- Shakespeare treats Shylock, a Jew, pretty poorly in The Merchant of Venice, although poor treatment of Jews was pretty much a historical constant until around 1946. He is, however, pretty damn humane compared to many Jewish characters of the time. His concerns are utterly stereotypical (money and hatred of Christians), but then you have the fantastic "If you prick me, do I not bleed" speech. For the time, Shylock is almost progressive, which is why he gets the "happy ending" of conversion to Christianity... forced under threat of death. Hooray?
- Arguably, "If you prick me" would only considered positive by a modern audience. "I am all about the inferior issues of flesh, rather than in any way spiritual" was just further condemnation, to audiences of Shakespeare's time.
- The racism in Merchant's depiction of Shylock is mild and nuanced compared to depictions of Jewish characters by Shakespeare's contemporaries. Much of Shylock's villainy is explained as a product not of his Jewishness per se, but as a reaction to the racism he constantly faces.
- It's quite possible that the Aesop of the play is that, if you treat a man as though he were nothing more than a wild beast, eventually, he will turn into one.
- Fun fact: Shakespeare, in all likelihood, never encountered a Jew, as they were at the time banished from England.
- Some people have written academic papers regarding this subject. Some feel that the treatment of Shylock as well as his portrayal is supposed to be allegorical of the repeated forced conversions between Protestantism and Catholicism which were going on during his life; the inability to address this issue directly caused him to target something more socially acceptable.
- Most modern productions of Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing leave out one of Claudio's lines near the end of the play. To make amends for his part in Hero's supposed death, he agrees to marry her cousin, but is told that he can't see her face until he swears it before the friar. He replies that he would take her in marriage even if she were "an Ethiope" (that is, an African).
- "Ethiop" seems to have been a favourite insult of Elizabethans — Lysander calls the dark skinned Hermia this in A Midsummer Night's Dream.
- This could likely be a Values Dissonance in regard to food culture as well, as Europeans almost never ate raw meat when they could avoid it, save for a few backwoods hermit-y types. Therefore being compared with someone who ate raw meat (look up Ethiopian dishes sometime), which is something not even the lowest commoner would sink to, would be seen as equally vulgar an insult.
- Everyone remembers Othello for the (then) controversial interracial marriage of its hero and Desdemona. Nowadays people are far more likely to take issue at the fact Desdemona can only be sixteen at the very most... and Othello's roughly the same age as her father (who was once his friend). It's disturbing that so many characters speak so lustfully about her, considering how young she is.
- Another case of Values Dissonance. At the time, a 16 year old would have been considered fully adult and capable of raising a family. Indeed, in much of the world, that's still the case today.
- Something which always provokes a gasp whenever people who have only seen the Baz Luhrman film read Romeo and Juliet: Romeo kills Paris, for absolutely no reason. While his murder of Tybalt can be (very shakily) justified, poor Paris is simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It would seem Shakespeare's contemporaries would have no trouble whatsoever with this; modern adaptations always omit it as it makes Romeo seem far less sympathetic (ironically, the line by the Prince at the end about losing "a brace of kinsman" is usually kept, even though Paris' death is excluded, thus making Mercutio the only kinsman he lost.)
- The Duchess of Malfi revolves around a forbidden marriage and what we would nowadays consider to be an honour killing. While her behavior in disobeying her family, marrying her steward, and actually proposing to him rather than vice versa, would have met with strong disapproval from most audiences, Webster is clearly depicting her as the most noble character in the play, the only one who didn't do anything seriously wrong; the rest of the court is populated by scheming tyrants, incestuous brothers, hypocrites, and murderers — the anti-hero protagonist is a killer-for-hire. This was a very radical play when it premiered. Nowadays sympathies are entirely with the lovers.
- In a couple of his plays, French playwright Georges Feydeau has English-speaking characters in Funny Foreigner roles often speaking a not very accurate gibberish which while hilarious to the contemporary audience doesn't hold up well in translation. Translation Convention is to either to have those characters speak the same English as the French characters but to be not understood by them or else, to adapt them into Funny Foreigners from other countries.
- Inverted by the Henrik Ibsen play A Doll's House. Audiences at the time were shocked by the end, in which Nora leaves her marriage, and Ibsen was forced to rewrite it. (The alternate ending is something of a Writer Cop Out, and Ibsen himself called the change a "barbaric atrocity.") Modern audiences generally find the original ending perfectly acceptable.
- Ibsen was way ahead of his time in his other writings, too — think of Hedda Gabler and Ghosts, to name but two. The first shows an angry upper class woman who is miserable and depressed, desperate to seek an outlet in any way possible, inciting a man to kill himself, and committing suicide when her role in his death is discovered. At the time critics considered Hedda to be monstrous and the entire play squalid; while Hedda still isn't very sympathetic, modern audiences can appreciate why she behaves the way she does. Even a seemingly secondary character is allowed to ditch her husband to be with the man she loves. Ghosts deals with VD and has a character suffer a syphillitic breakdown on stage; this would have been outrageous when it was first shown. The heroine Mrs. Alving was lambasted, not least for encouraging Brother Sister Incest. Contemporary audiences view her in a much softer light, though adaptations still insinuate she's too close to her son, If You Know What I Mean.
- The musical Carousel features a defense of domestic violence. Julie, thinking longingly of her abusive dead husband, remarks wistfully that "it's possible for someone to hit you ... hit you very hard ... and not hurt at all." The audience isn't supposed to cringe at how cowed she is, but to sigh over this romantic moment.
- Later she and her daughter share a moment where they discuss how "sometimes when someone hits you, it feels like a kiss."
- Similar to the above, Nancy's staying by Bill Sikes even in the face of his abuse in Oliver! comes across as overly submissive and lacking regard for her own well-being to modern audiences, but as one of this troper's music teachers pointed out, there were no abuse hotlines in Dickensian london.
Video Games
- The manual for Interplay's PC adaptation of The Fellowship of the Ring had a section explaining that the portrayal of some elements of the setting reflected the source material and might conflict with modern sensibilities.
- Natsume has run into this a few times in translating the Harvest Moon games.
- The Japanese Harvest Moon DS Cute had a Romantic Two Girl Friendship / Gay Option, where your girl could engage in a "Best Friends Ceremony" with some of the other female characters, at which point they'd become essentially the same as a wife. Although relatively mundane for Japan, this would be considered shocking to certain parties in the US, so was quietly dropped from the US version of the game. Both dropping it, and the way Natsume handled dropping it have upset fans, though.
- Lumina from A Wonderful Life and related games was, in the US, quietly retconned from 13 to 18, because she became a marriage candidate in later games. In Japan, 13 is (in some prefectures) the real-world age of consent — not nearly enough to be scandalous in a fictional context, especially given their greater openness to the lolicon fetish in fiction. In the US, marrying a 13-year-old usually comes across as deeply disturbing regardless of age of consent. Just ask Jerry Lee Lewis.
- Actually she's sixteen in the Japanese version of Special Edition. She just looks younger.
- Many fans of the series caught a less-than subtle hint of sexism when it came to the different "Bonus" spouses between Friends Of Mineral Town and More Friends Of.... Guys got the beautiful (if bitchy) Harvest Goddess. Ladies — with several existing male options Marvelous could've used — got sleazy trader Won and what amounted to two joke characters: the monstrous Kappa and the even more monstrous human Gourmet Judge. Marvelous seems to have picked up on this. In DS Cute your "bonus" groom is White Haired Pretty Boy Skye/Steiner.
- There was also Harvest Moon GBC 3, which gave a choice of playing as either a male or female. The male character could get married and have a child and continue playing. The female character's game ended as soon as she married. Also the love interest for the male character was completely useless until livestock was purchased, which could only be bought after growing a certain amount of grass. The love interest for the female character merely began as incompetent.
- That first instance seems like it's a developer overlooking a secondary audience matter. Since males tend to shoot for the absolute best in the games, they went and made the bonus character a goddess, but because they had a good fleshed-out cast in the game already, they didn't feel the females needed any serious 'bonus' matches, having a good stable to pick from already. Actually, Won himself seems to fit this trope, being the only Chinese member of the cast.
- In Back to Nature For Girl, your game also ended after you became married. Though this was changed in the enhanced port-remake, More Friends of Mineral Town.
- Hugh is only six years old (eight in the English version), but is trained constantly by his dad to be the perfect athlete, and thus his only goal is to be an athlete.
- Later releases of Super Mario World have an instance of this, where Yoshi can eat the cute, friendly dolphins in the game. In Japan, they actually do eat dolphins, so it's not much to raise an eyebrow... while in Western countries, this comes across as a bit horrifying. It was actually removed from Western releases of the original SNES version because of this.
- Though this did serve a gameplay purpose too: if you eat the dolphins, they can't respawn. Which means, on many levels where you need them as transportation, you're boned.
- In the original Japanese version of Super Mario RPG, Bowser flipped you off if you won in battle while he was in the party. Because, as mentioned above, raising the middle finger is completely innocent in Japan but seen as a very rude gesture elsewhere, it was changed into something more generic (an arm pump) for the US release.
- If it's historical and has a level of detail beyond personally killing things (effectively, a strategy game) it probably qualifies. Take Rome: Total War: the men in your family line are the most important characters in the game, providing bonuses when they lead armies and run your cities, with stats and intricate trait and retinue systems; the women don't even have stats, they're used for making babies and bringing new men into their family.
- Games get away with atrocities with relative ease if they're abstract enough. Scifi gamers blow up planets all the time. Consequently, Europa Universalis III can let the player implement the Inquisition when it practically consists of a few button presses and changes in population statistics. There are limits: the WWII-themed parts of the series don't have a "Final Solution" button.
- Slavery is a particular problem with historical building games. Some use it as a critical game mechanic, others pretend that it didn't happen. In Medieval: Total War, if one is playing as a Muslim faction, it is possible to sell captured soldiers/rebels into slavery (for Christian factions, the option is "execute"). It is also possible to launch Crusades or Jihads against another group.
- Each province in Europa Universalis III produces a particular trade good. In Africa, one of the possible trade goods are slaves. The game however gives the player no benefit for finding slaves other than the actual direct profit from the trade good... and even then one prefers to find gold or ivory (Another resource that conjures values dissonance) in Africa. It's possible to abolish the slave trade, at which point all of a player's provinces that "produce" slaves start producing something else; this is usually beneficial because it gives players another shot at finding gold in their provinces.
- Also in EU3, there's an option that essentially allows your armies to march through uncivilized areas (that is, uncolonized areas) and systematically slaughter the native population.
- Hideo Kojima's self-confessed fetish for demure, quietly emotional women was never so bad as in Snatcher, where the thirty-two year-old protagonist has a sexually-charged fling with a demure, quietly emotional fourteen-year-old model. (To give you an idea of the sexualisation, she has a birthmark on her inner thigh shaped like a heart, and you actually need to know that in order to continue the game. You can also make the protagonist sniff her panties and, at one point, he sneaks up on her naked in the shower.) While side characters complain, it's because the man is technically married, although no side characters comment when another female character asks him out and he accepts. The localisation aged her up to eighteen and removed the panty-sniffing and nudity.
- Something similar happened in Metal Gear Solid. It's worth remembering that the plot involves an eighteen-year-old who has never had a previous relationship hooking up with a thirty-two-year-old, and that no-one at all thinks this is odd — in fact, the other characters actively encourage it and point to her youth as a reason why she's perfect for him. It gets worse when you remember that Meryl was originally going to be thirteen (modelled after Natalie Portman's character in Léon/The Professional), and was only aged up to an adult because the character designer had trouble imagining a thirteen-year-old handling a Desert Eagle like in the script.
- On the other hand, the male-female age gap is a very recent (and almost exclusively American) phenomenon. In fact, even in some regions of the US, the fact that she's 18 de-Squicks the game immensely.
- Another Kojima example — in Metal Gear Solid 4, women in combat were used to show the horror and the all-consuming nature of war, with the two strongest elite units being Amazon Brigades and all of the mecha having distinctly feminine legs or arms. While women in combat is still a controversial issue in the West, it still appears unnecessarily sexist and discriminatory to many Western eyes, especially some of the Squicky symbolism involving the BB Corp damaging you by hugging you, the FROGs hating being groped but enjoying it if Snake's wearing his young mask, all of the antagonistic females being presented as insane or brainwashed rather than genuinely decisive about their duties, or even the masculine, bulky Rex attacking the slender, sleek-hipped RAY using its crotch laser.
- The fourth generation of Pokemon implied that humans and Pokemon were once able to be married
, among other things.
- Better not let the Altoshippers hear that...
- So, all those Gardevoir fantasies have effectively now been canonized? Kinda creepy.
- This is also an example of Values Dissonance over time as well as space. In the first games Pokemon were portrayed mostly as animals, with referrences to some Pokemon eating others and few hints of sapience. Likely due to the anime, in which humans and Pokemon regularly communicated, subsequent games, especially the third set (in which the aformentioend Gardevoir debuts), provided them with incresingly human qualities to the point where the above seems plausible, with the result that it is more likely to be "creepy" to someone who has followed the series from the beginning than someone who was introduced to it later.
- It's a bit odd though — Pokedexes still refer to Pokemon as being animalistic, despite them being more humanized.
- Jynx
gained a lot of controversy in America for looking too much like a blackface character (Japan is a homogenous country).
- Jynx, however, is based off a Japanese fashion statement.
- In the Japanese versions of the game, many NPC trainers make rather mature remarks which can be seen as sexual harassment.
- In America having sexual content in a game is more likely to set off a moral panic than having violent content; in some other countries the opposite is true.
- There's also the "coffee" guy from Kanto, who is actually drunk in the Japanese version.
- The European version of Platinum removed the slot machines for no apparent reason.
- PEGI is tight about gambling and it can easily earn a +12 rating.
- Shirou Emiya of Fate Stay Night earned a large amount of fan hatred for his seeming Stay In The Kitchen attitude towards Saber's fighting in the Grail War. In fact, he's actually a subversion; he's just mortally afraid of Saber dying (and painfully aware that he's not qualified to fight alone) and initially doesn't understand why, settling on a traditionalist view as a random excuse. Notably, he doesn't act this way towards any other woman (even Saber herself in the non-Fate routes), and the very idea is even mocked on occasion.
- Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne is rated "all ages" in Japan, it (or rather "Lucifer's Call") is rated 11+ and 12+ by PEGI based on the region, the ESRB on the othehand has it as M (17+).
- The same is true for the vanilla Persona 3 except that it has a CERO "b" (12+).
- The makers of Shenmue II are guilty of this by having a barmaid, in The ''British'' Colony of Hong-Kong, thank Ryo for being so honest about being to young to
drink buy alcohol at aged 18.
- Sort of noticeable in the Metroid series of games: in the Japanese-made 2D games, Samus is a somewhat understated character, implied to not be terribly well-known outside of people who need to know who she is (typically, the Federation and some of the Pirates that she has history with). In the American-made 3D games, Samus is well-known by nearly everyone, played up like some sort of celebrity or war goddess, universally feared by the Pirates and well-respected by even the newest recruits in the Federation; in other words, a more Hollywood-esque portrayal of a heroine of her stature. Incidentally, the Japanese 2D games are also the ones to show Samus scantily clad in her "reveal" even as recently as Zero Mission, the first 2D game to show her in her Zero Suit (which appear in some of the endings, but she's wearing less in others). It was the Americans who first made an attempt to cover her up, with Prime never showing less than her without her helmet, and Prime 2 introducing her slinky but functional-looking Zero Suit.
Web Comics
- Used intentionally in Amazoness! The comic takes place in Ancient Greece, with a cast of Amazons, and several characters are the slaves of other characters, with none of this being looked at oddly or negatively. In fact, the receiving of a girl's first slave is treated more like getting a new pet than anything else, with the mother telling the girls to "take care of them" and that it's a "big responsibility".
- However, in actual practice the situation often seems to be "slavery" in name only. Given the general treatment of women during that time period, being a slave to an Amazon was probably a reasonably sweet deal.
Western Animation
- In the Justice League two-parter "Legends", a case of Values Dissonance between the current League and the Justice Guild of America (an homage to the Golden Age Justice Society of America) is illustrated by the (black) Green Lantern's discomfort with being called "a credit to your people" by The Streak, and Hawkgirl's displeasure at Black Siren expecting her to help bake cookies for the men present.
- Values Dissonance from one era to another is the reason we have to endure being lectured by Whoopi Goldberg on the Looney Tunes Golden Collection. The values of 60-80 years ago were different than those of today? Ya don't say! Thank goodness for fast forward.
- Also, any Wartime Cartoon will completely dehumanize the opposing country (Yellow Peril, Those Wacky Nazis, you name it.) Cartoon Network had to reorganize their otherwise chronological Bugs Bunny marathon to avoid showing these during the daytime.
- The Disney Wartime Cartoon DVD collection has unskippable, un-fast-forwardable intros by Leonard Maltin, with the same message before each of "times were different then but we know better now". Since the collection was released at the height of the early 2000s post-9/11 hysteria, Your Mileage May Vary as to whether they're a Reverse Funny Aneurysm.
- The Tex Avery Show, a late-night set of WB cartons with each episode organized around a specific theme, would often devote entire episodes just to showing racist shorts like "Coal Black and de Seben Dwarves" and noting the Unfortunate Implications.
- After two generations of increasingly extreme paranoia over the sexual exploitation of children, the song "If You Sit On My Lap Today" from the classic 1970 Christmas Special Santa Claus Is Comin To Town can sound positively creepy. If Kris were to walk into J. Random American Town today and make that offer, he'd be dogpiled by tonfa-swinging cops and branded a pedophile before he could blink.
- The Simpsons episode "The Cartridge Family" seems absurdly in favour of guns — while they do mention that they are dangerous (especially in the hands of Homer J. Simpson), the episode goes out of its way to portray gun ownership as a positive thing that helps maintain law and order. This is because the gun laws in America are much more lax than in other countries, where guns are very rare and owning one is looked down upon. In fact, to Americans, the very fact that the dangers are mentioned makes the episode seem anti-gun! By coincidence or not, the UK's Channel 4 airs that episode with a Bowdlerised ending where Marge simply bins the weapon and walks out of the hotel.
- "The Cartridge Family" is about as pro-gun as Sacha Baron Cohen
is antisemitic. (Of course, he gets a good number of people to believe that he's the nutjob he pretends to be, so the analogy holds up so beautifully here.)
- I think the message of the episode is that whether you're pro-gun, anti-gun, or whatever, a man like Homer Simpson should not have a gun.
- It does make the unforgivable (to a straw liberal, at least) mistake of daring to portray other gun owners as responsible; they kick Homer out of the gun club for his dangerous and idiotic behavior.
- Where does a European viewer begin with The Simpsons:
- The South Park episode "It Hits The Fan" was considered somewhat edgy in the USA, where you couldn't normally say "shit" on TV at the time. In the UK, "shit" can be used freely after the watershed, and as such the episode came across as quite Narmy.
- As noted in the anime section above, many Americans seem to read Lolicon subtext into non-sexual Panty Shots like in Kikis Delivery Service. But this also is true for older western cartoons such as Little Lulu and Little Audrey (their entries in the Panty Shot article are referred to as "disturbing"). Let's look at context here, people: These are characters who originated in the 1930s and 1940s respectively, when pedophilia was't even talked about, and they were supposed to be just cute (but mischevious) little girls wearing dresses. And, well, when you're a kid and you wear a dress, sometimes your underwear shows. It was supposed to be realism, people, not fanservice. The fact that there are people out there reading sexual undertones into something meant to be totally innocent would mean...
- One interpretative blind-spot is that most tropers are on a certain end of the Sliding Scale and read "wasn't even talked about" to mean "silently accepted", which is the case for a lot of [1] examples like marital rape.
Other
- Theodore Geisel (better known as Dr. Seuss) drew black characters in what would now be considered "blackface" caricatures. However, some of his political cartoons indicate that he was anti-racist, so this seems to have been simply the cartooning style of the day.
- He admitted that he got caught up in the anti-Japanese storm after Pearl Harbor, and viewed it as an Old Shame.
- Here's
the proof.
- Older works will often show children going out alone and their parents being okay with it, which may seem strange in today's rather paranoid culture. The same can be said for many Intergenerational Friendships.
- Children's television. What's considered 'acceptable' varies on different sides of the Pond. British shows can get away with the occasional use of words like 'damn', 'hell' or 'crap', non-negative depictions of alcohol, explicit references to death and even a few sex references without it being considered Getting Crap Past The Radar. A lot of those things would be considered so in America.
- Any usage of cafeterial or easily available birth control, such as condoms and pills, as well as the concept of pre-marital sex between couples, especially when they're still teenagers, tend to be more controversial in various countries with more traditional and religious views.
- Attitudes have changed over time, and especially since the discovery of AIDS: In 1977 The BBC absolutely refused to show a Durex-sponsored Formula One car on TV, condoms being a much more taboo product than they are now.
- The US seem to have a bad case of Values Dissonance between different segments of their population, which isn't surprising given how big and diverse it is. Naturally, this exists between different subcultures of the same culture in most places in the world, but the US is the most notable modern example. Some examples:
- Reactions to gun control varies vastly. Alaskans and Vermonters find the concept horrific — the latter state's Constitution forbids even licensing or most restrictions on carrying concealed firearms. In California, New York City, or Massachusetts, on the other hand, restrictive licensing on rifles or shotguns kept in the home is the law, and admitting to even lawful firearm ownership is will garner the same reaction from a Bostonian as admitting to cannibalism.
- New Hampshire is one of the most lax states in gun control, and actually has no seatbelt laws. Yet violent crime is low, and people wear seatbelts for safety, anyway. This is because the state's culture of "Live free or die" also seems to apply to living responsibly.
- The popularity of the death penalty, as noted above, varies from state to state. The majority of states do allow it, but even many of those that have death penalty statutes on the books do not actively use them. Most North-Easterners live in states with no death penalty on the books or used, and opinions on the matter seem to be mixed or opposed. Texans, on the other hand, tend to overwhelmingly support the death penalty, as do a good number of other states. Interactions between the two groups on the matter can be interesting.
- And on that note, the methods of execution have changed in response to changing social mores. In an ironic twist of fate, some humane methods of execution are more frightening than ancient methods, it's just that since there's no blood we believe no harm has been done.
- Public opinion on homosexuality ranges, although it seems to be tied more to age than location. It still varies from "Yes, please" in Provincetown, MA or San Francisco, CA, to "Pass the brainbleach" in more of the predominately rural states.
- Even in the predominantly rural south it can vary, some cities like Asheville, NC and New Orleans have large gay populations.
- New Orleans could not be called the 'rural south'. It's so distinctly ITS own culture, and a metropolitan one at that, that it's like a separate country. Aside from the gun laws, it has more in common with South America than the southern US.
- Even basic gender roles vary widely by area, following the same pattern: West and northeast are more liberal/equal gender rights, while the south and central states are conservative and expect old-fashioned gender roles.
- This troper from NC thinks that the above may be mistaken. Even in the more conservative parts of the state gender roles are not really followed. There are women doctors, lawyers, police officers etc. The state eve elected ITS first female governor.
- Land use policies vary extremely between rural and urban areas in the US. Due to the rather different experiences someone who lives at the edge of a forest compared to someone who lives in a high rise you get huge value differences in how they not only view acceptable crowding, but also how much land should be use for agriculture or timber harvesting versus wilderness.
- This also leads to differences in environmental viewpoints. Urban-Suburban Americans often have the impression that wilderness is very nearly a thing of the past, while those living in rural areas are very familiar with the opposite (the country is actually quite sparsely populated outside major cities).
- The presence of gay members of the US military is still the subject of much controversy, and therefore continues to be so in fiction (see, for instance The General's Daughter). In some other countries, however, openly gay soldiers, sailors, and aircrew serve with no issues; therefore, audiences may tend to view American attitudes expressed through fiction to be rather amusingly quaint.
- Please note that many Americans find the real life controversy over gays serving in the military to be embarassingly quaint.
- Naked kids on, say, beaches and in magazine photos of same were once widely considered innocent and asexual, rather than prey for the pedophiles no doubt lurking behind the nearest tree.
- The murders of Lucie Blackman and Lindsay Ann Hawker in Japan raised questions about the differences in Japanese and British legal systems, particularly regarding issues of evidence, gender and the status of foreigners.
- Before that, the Dutch had a similair case with Renée Hartevelt in 1981.
- Frances Fitzgerald's book Fire in the Lake was about how the difference between American and Vietnamese culture was the source of a lot of America's blatant failures in Vietnam.
- To a large extent, so was The Ugly American, by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer. Written in 1958 before America's large-scale military involvement in Vietnam, the book talks about American failure in Southeast Asia as a whole, and Vietnam in particular.
- Anyone who has been in a class where Plato's Republic or Symposium is presented, will have to brace themselves for the inevitable and tiring giggles that come with any discussion of the Greek's penchant for man-boy love.
- That the age of consent is 16 or less in most of Europe but 18 in some US states gives rise to some dissonance when discussions arise about the attractiveness and availability of 16- and 17-year-olds. 16 is actually more common in the US, but very few seem to realize this.
- Probably because it's 18 in California, where a lot of the US entertainment industry is based.
- Another issue is the fact that state laws tend to differ when it comes to age of consent issues, but federal law states that no one under the age of 18 may be photographed in a "sexual" manner. Which creates an interesting conflict when you live in a state where you can legally have sex with a 16-year old, but go to jail if you take a picture of her topless.
- Here in Sweden age of consent is 15, but anyone in pornography — including non photographic art — has to be 18 or older, which is when you legally becomes an adult.
- Which has given rise to several infamous cases where minors have been charged with Possession of Child Porn for possessing nude pictures of themselves.
- In one case, a 15 year old girl was actually prosecuted for Distribution of Child Pornography, for sending a topless photo of herself to her 17 year old boyfriend.
- This is similar to an issue which came to light in the UK a few years ago: one national newspaper has, on page three, a picture of a topless woman on it. However, the law recently changed to state that people who are photographed sexually must be 18 or over (the previous law stated 16 or over), and the law was retroactive. Due to the fact that some of the models were 16 and 17 at the time the photos were taken, any person or corporation who is holding these images is now holding child pornography and can potentially be charged/jailed for it.
- As well as the fact that it is broadly considered unacceptable to have sex with minors, regardless of state law.
- It's as low as 14 in some states.
- But what is a minor? In most countries it's someone who's under the age of consent. In other words, a European 17-year-old isn't legally a minor. It's still considered pretty damn skeevy to break the "half your age plus seven" formula by some, though.
- Making the issue of "minors" even more complicated is that questions about age and maturity of judgement invariably result in someone pointing out that drinking age is 21 while people can join the army at age 18 — generally underlining conflicting assumptions about just when "maturity" is established (or if an arbitrary age limit can ever manage to accurately reflect maturity at all).
- In Japan, the federal age of consent is 13. However, most prefectures bump it up to 18.
- That's because of Enjo Kosai aka "compensated dating", where high school girls get money or presents from older men for going out with them. Doesn't necessarily include sex as part of the package, but it's still common; so the autorities saw the deal as undercover prostitution, and you can guess what happened.
- It's 13 too in Spain.
- Most of Canada's age of consent is 16 (recently bumped up from 14). However, the age of consent for anal sex (no matter which genders it involves) is 18.
- To have sex with someone under 18, you can be no more than 4 years older than them. The same law was also in place when age of consent was only 14.
- Florida is especially confusing to some. Age of consent is 18, unless the older partner is 24 or younger, in which case it drops to 16. As crazy as it sounds, this actually makes a lot of sense when compared to a place like Virginia where the age-of-consent is 18 reguardless. That means an 18 year old and a 17 year old having sex is illegal.
- In France, the age of consent for sex is 15, and you need to be 18 for buying porn. Showing porn to someone under 18 can make you go to jail, but having sex with him or her won't.
- In Finland, age of consent is 16... Except for younger are OK, if they are in same physical and psychological growth stage. Which results in anyone being able to have sex but porn is still restricted.
- In Madagascar, it's 21.
- In many conservative Muslim countries, premarital sex is taboo, however, marriage is permitted at very young ages (usually at the start of puberty). Homosexual sex is often illegal, in some cases even carrying the death penalty (for men, at least). One should also keep in mind that many non-Muslim societies before the 20th century also held similar views on human sexuality.
- This
should break things down well enough.
- The age-of-consent business, at least in the U.S. (and elsewhere, this troper suspects) becomes even more Values Dissonant when you throw in the monkey wrench of marriage laws. They vary widely from state to state; of course once you're 18 you can do whatever you like, but in many states, with parental consent, the minumum age is either significantly lower or non-existant — so sex that was statutory rape, even bordering on pedophilia, when the partners were unmarried, becomes A-OK once they are. Obviously, this doesn't see a ton of practice, but there have been cases much more recently than you'd like. Impregnated a twelve-year-old in Nebraska? No problem; just smooth things over with her parents, then drive to Kansas for a wedding. If you do it quickly enough, no one'll ask any questions. Especially squicky is that in some states that do have minimum ages for minors with parental consent, that minimum is lower for the girl than for the boy — 14 and 16 or 15 and 17, say. Lovely.
- This is reversed with alcohol, the minimum age to purchase being 18 or less in nearly every non-Muslim nation except the US, where you have to be 21. There, 18-20 year-olds are legally adults in every other way; they can vote and sign contracts such as joining the military and purchasing land, but are legally barred from even possessing alcoholic beverages.
- That yealds the rather odd result, that if a Oregon bar serves a 18-20 year old and gets caught, they can sue the 18-20 year old for thier lost bussness. So the kid is responisble for drinking, but not responisble enough to drink?
- That's because a decision like joining the army at 18-20 definitely is a something you should decide on while sober. ;)
- In Sweden, you cannot buy alcohol at a liquor shop (which are all state-run) unless you are 21, despite becoming a legal adult at 18. You can drink alcohol at a restaurant at 18, though (and vote, act in porn, and drive any motor vehicle...).
- Interestingly, most honest attempts by Moral Guardians to raise the drinking age to 21 failed at the state and federal level. They succeeded by slipping amendments into spending bills, which reduced the amount of aid sent to states with drinking ages under 21.
- And to make sure that the states didn't try to work around the money restrictions, they're attached to highway maintenance and construction funds.
- Counter to this many American States give FULL and instant "Majority" at time of marriage and since the age limit for that ranges from 16 on down things can get interesting.
- Note that this meddling falls through while in the armed service. There the drinking age is still eighteen while at army bases.
- Not entirely true. The drinking age at any particular military base is set by the base commander. Typically, it will conform to the laws of the region where the base is located, which in the US means 21; but with exceptions provided for holidays and other special events.
- This dissonance was lampshaded by Guatemalan singer-songwriter Ricardo Arjona in his song "Si el norte fuera el sur": "Con 18 eres un niño para entrar en algun bar/Pero ya eres todo un hombre 'pa la guerra y 'pa matar (At 18 you are a kid to go into any bar/ but you're a grown man to go to the war and to kill)". That song, by the way, is all about the Values Dissonance between North and South America, fueled by the traditional resentment that the inhabitants of the latter region feel towards its northern neighbours.
- "A lot of people say that young people are violent. But how would you feel if you could have - y'know - intercourse with a lady, yet you could not drink in pubs? Hmm?"
- Likewise, the consumption of alcohol by minors ranges wildly across the spectrum, from no restrictions, to requirements of parental (or even spousal) supervision, to total prohibition until 18 or 21.
- Slurping is (or once was) considered to be polite in Japan, to show that the food was really delicious. In America at least, it's considered rude to slurp. The Japanese noodle-slurping method has the added bonus of cooling the food as it's eaten, but it has the immense and disgusting disadvantage of spraying liquid all over the table.
- That may have more to do with necessity than values dissonance. When eating noodles with chopsticks, it is nearly impossible not to slurp them.
- Similarly, in many parts of the world, burping loudly at the end of a meal is expected, either as a form of applause to the cook or as a sign that yes, you're done eating. Not so much in Western countries (where you're expected to either discreetly blow it out the side or just hold it in until you pop).
- In Red China Blues, Jan Wong told how she visited China under Communism, and every time she visited a house she would dutifully clean her plate. In her culture, not eating everything you're given is an insult implying that you don't like the food and the host is a poor cook; in the Chinese culture, you were supposed to leave some food to show that you had had your fill, and to finish all you're given implies that the hosts are too poor (or cheap) to provide enough. Most of her hosts were actually very poor, and had to keep giving her second helpings...
- "Socialist" is considered a grave insult in American politics. In a lot of the world, especially most European and South American countries, socialist parties will bear the word proudly in their name. There is also a strong divide on the "welfare state", which often carries negative connotations in North America, while being seen as very positive inm say, Scandinavia or Germany.
- Your Mileage May Vary as this troper has several friends who proudly proclaim themselves as Socialist. I believe it largely depends on the region and politics of he area you are in. The phrase Communist on the other hand, is generally frowned upon in this troper's experience.
- It's true that there are individual citizens who don't froth at the mouth when they hear the word, and there are officially socialist political parties — but they'll never, ever be in any position of power, and if you embark on a political career with either of the major parties and label yourself or your policies socialist, you're knowingly dooming yourself to failure. People are just terrified of it — which makes any economic or social ideology to the left of Ayn Rand perfect fodder for alarmism.
- Actually, Bernie Sanders the independent Senator from Vermont openly calls himself socialist, but that's Vermont.
- Hey, you seem to have missed the Strawman Political page by a few, comrade.
- Actually, recent studies have shown that Americans are becoming increasingly less hostile to socialism - not necessarily because of any changes in outlook (though there might be some of that too) but more because Republicans have been decrying even very modest attempts at welfare as "socialism" for so long that a lot of Americans now think that socialism = anything other than perfect all-out capitalism.
- Values Dissonance can most often be seen during wartime, since it involves two differing societies fighting one another. One historically relevant example would be the differing viewpoints on the issue of surrender between the Japanese and the Western Allies during WWII. Whereas the Western powers such as the United States and Great Britain saw surrender as a respectable way to resolve a battle, the Japanese were taught to believe that surrender was the ultimate disgrace. The obvious result was very few Japanese prisoners due to the majority of them choosing death over capture, while Western prisoners were treated horribly by their Japanese captors.
- Note that this behaviour wasn't traditionally Japanese: during the war with the Russian Empire forty years earlier, their treatment of prisoners was noted for its care and humanity.
- Also true for the few Germans in East Asia the Japanese (then British allies) imprisoned in WWI. A few of the Germans found the Japanese treatment so humane and gentlemanly that a few returned to live their lives there after the war. The harsh, brutal Japanese of WW 2 was the result of massive conscription to support the increasingly expansionist outlook of the Japanese Empire in the 30's. The Japanese military sought for a way to keep said conscripted troops disciplined — since discipline is often a big problem for conscript armies — so they introduced an absolutely brutal training and discipline, as well as an ostensibly samurai-based warrior mythos involving honorable courage and the dishonor of surrender.
- Speaking of Japan: There's the infamous 1976 exhibition "match" between boxing legend Muhammad Ali and Japanese wrestling icon (and Mixed Martial Arts pioneer) Antonio Inoki. Most in the West saw the fight as an embarrassing farce — with Inoki spending virtually the entire 15 rounds on his back, in a defensive position, kicking at Ali whenever he approached. But in Asian countries, especially Japan, the fight is seen as a victory of brains over brawn (A P.O.V. somewhat supported by various rules changes in the months leading to the match that swung things unfairly in Ali's favor and by the fact that being kicked in the same muscle for 45 minutes caused blood clots which eventually required surgery, Ali's legs were never the same)
- Prior to the mid-20th century, the swastika had only positive connotations and was employed as a design motif in several cultures (and is still used as such in several Asian religions). Needless to say, this leads to some confusion for those whose most direct reference to the symbol is Nazi iconography. One of the oddest instances of this is in The Great Gatsby where Jewish gangster Meyer Wolfsheim owns the "Swastika Holding Co."
- The town of Swastika, Ontario
has resisted attempts to change its name, the locals claiming it had the name long before anyone heard of National Socialism.
- A few years ago a bank in Bolton, UK, ruffled a few feathers because it had swastikas on the floor of its entrance. Employees insisted that when the bank was built — 1927 — the symbol didn't have negative associations, and had no intention of moving them. To this troper's knowledge they're still there.
- The city hall building in Birmingham, AL was built in the 1920's. It has a carved swastika motif on its outside walls. Given Alabama's reputation for extreme social conservatism, this is unintentionally hilarious now.
- Possibly related to the above, Eugenics was actually a somewhat popular idea before the Holocaust.
- "Bastard" is considered far more insulting in Germany than it is in America. Interesting fact: "bastard" is only used as an insult for men, because an illegitimate son would not inherit his father's property. A daughter wouldn't get anything anyway, so it didn't matter.
- It is? This troper is German and has never heard it. Besides, nowadays illegitimates can inherit too. And quite some kids are born out of wedlock.
- Yeah, used to mean the same in English (only it did went to be just an illegitimate child) this troper was shock to find that people in "the Scarlet Letter" were calling a newborn baby girl a bastard. (which had footnotes)
- For most of English and French history, "bastard" was a neutral term (akin to how the word "moron" started as a neutral scientific word before degenerating into an insult). In fact, for most of his life William the Conqueror was know as Guillaume Bâtard (William the Bastard)
- There is likewise a divide between the Australian and British usage of 'bastard'. It is much more insulting to Brits than Aussies, the latter using it quite affectionately much of the time. The most well known example of this probably being the response of then Australian cricket-team captain Bill Woodfull to Brit captain Douglas Jardine's complaint that he had been called a bastard by one of the Aussie team. Woodfull turned to the team and said "Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?"
- George W. Bush once used the word "Paki" under the mistaken belief that it's an accepted informalism for a Pakistani person, akin to "Brit" for a British person or "Aussie" for an Australian. In the UK and all of South Asia, it is a highly offensive racial slur.
- Also, consider that "Afghani" and "Kazakh" are perfectly acceptable when referring to those from Afghanistan or Kazakhstan.
- Incorrect. Afghani is currency, people are Afghans.
- In Britain, it's considered a highly offensive slur, akin to "nigger".
- Except if its used between friends (One of the Princes got into trouble with the press over this.)
- Here on Vancouver Island, it's absolutely hilarious to see other places' reactions to marijuana use. And not just old movies, like Reefer Madness. As a rule, cops consider it an annoying waste of time to arrest pot smokers when they could be out catching real criminals. Current events on the news are funny.
- A similar mindset is held in many decriminalized areas of the United States, such as areas of California and Colorado.
- Netherlands? It's legal. Philippines? Possessing one kilogram is punishable by the death penalty.
- The use of the word "nigger" or "negro" is considered very offensive in the U.S., while variations of the words in other languages (such as the dutch "neger") are perfectly normal. Belgium has schoolbooks that speak of "negerslaven" (negro slaves).
- Swedish historian Dick Harrison pointed out that the closest equivalent to "nigger" in swedish isn't "neger" but "svarting" or "svartskalle", both of which are very offensive (while "neger" is only somewhat condescending)
- "Negro" and "colored" were considered perfectly acceptable terms in the US as well up until about the late-20th century ("nigger," on the other hand, seems to have always been offensive), which can cause a bit of culture shock when one reads something written or set in that period.
- In Brazil calling a black man "Preto" will bring some cold stares. Here, calling an Afro-descendant "preto" (most used for the color rather than the biotype) is highly offensive, while "negro" (which also means black but in a different way — as everything race-related, it's complicated) is more acceptable. Also, by Brazilian miscegenation standards, one needs a much darker skin to be considered "black."
- Would like to add another point in the value dissonance, "negro" would be better translated as "dark", and althought is okay to call a afro-descendant "negro", we also use the word in similar manner of evil association that it is used in U.S. (for example a "Dark Knight"), you could very well say is that we just have a problem with using the word "preto" with out being used for a color. I also would like to add, while "Preto" is somehow ofensive to afro-descendant, is not as bad as "nigger".
- In Venezuela, "negro" can be used as an nickname and a endearment term between people close enough (like best friends, lovers and relatives), sometimes regardless of the apparent ethnicity of the receiver. All for the lulz. Recently, one presidential candidate promised that he will distribute the oil revenue via a debit card dubbed "Mi Negra"; they printed several copies of the alleged prototype to give in campaign acts, which logo included a portrait of a woman similar to American Aunt Jemima, all over a pitch black background. The only calling out they had was about the ludicrousness of the idea of direct income redistribution via plastic; the whole visual concept and name of the thing was largely glossed over, and even joked about without bitterness. You couldn't get away with that in any other country, that's for sure.
- In various parts of Europe, chocolate-covered marshmallow treats
were called "Negro Kisses". Most manufacturers eventually renamed the treats.
- In Chile you can use "negro" more freely, it is used somewhat like "dude", and when referring to women, specially in the diminutive form "negrita", implies sexyness. Also, we have the Negrita cookies (Nestlé, you know), but they tend to use sexy dark-skinned girls for their publicity so no one's offended.
- In western Canada in my mother's childhood ('40s & '50s), brazil nuts were "niggertoes", with no racial overtones (there being almost no black people there at the time). She didn't find out that the word even referred to black people, let alone offensively, until she moved to Bermuda (with a large black population) in the '60s.
- What's stranger to this 40something troper is that while "nigger" is considered universally offensive in the US, "niggah" is okay as long as it's from one black person to another. Stranger yet is that even this is changing in the younger generation. I have heard blacks using it to whites and vice versa, whites using it to whites, Asians and Hispanics likewise.
- This troper doesn't let any of my students use it. Better they learn early that hypocrisy licenses don't exist.
- There are a large number of black people (this troper included) who find the word vile regardless of context.
- Chris Rock has made a lot of comedic use of the question. Probably the most famous is when he asserted that Black People and Niggers were actually discrete social groups, the latter being the source of the modern version of worst kind of the urban-black stereotype: violent, willingly ignorant, thieving thugs.
- In Spanish, Negro means "Black" and as a result (at least in Spain, that is), it is used as freely as "Blanco" (White) when speaking about race. American tourists can get quite annoyed by this, apparently. In recent years, though, some youngsters are beginning to avoid the word because of Pop Cultural Osmosis. The reason? Spanish lacks a proper equivalent of "nigger" and similar slurs, so when they appear in films and TV series they are dubbed as "Negro", giving the word a bad look and promoting the raise of non-exact euphemysms like "De color" (Coloured) and "Africano/Afroamericano" (African/African American) to subtitute it.
- Traffic laws and driving standards. The lack of a speed limit on the German Autobahn network being an obvious example. One third of the Autobahn routes has a permanent speed limit, and another part has speed limits depending on weather or traffic situation. Just about 50% of German Autobahn have no speed limit (though there still is a recommended maximum speed of 130 km/h). Nearly every other developed country has strict speed limits on all motorways but in Germany the Chancellor even defended the lack of a speed limit as being part of German national identity (though the misconception that all the motorways are limit-less is something many Germans are either amused of annoyed to be constantly asked about). Tailgating is another driving habit that can have different meanings — it's a crime as its 'dangerous driving' or coercion, but in the UK and USA it's generally seen as an intimidating or aggressive gesture, but in Germany and Italy it's generally more of a pragmatic "I want to overtake" message — Jeremy Clarkson once wrote of being tailgated in Italy... by a car full of nuns!
- Quebec intentionally made their traffic laws different from the rest of Canada as a way of highlighting their status as a "distinct society". For example, Passing on an on-ramp, something that you can lose your license for in Ontario, is perfectly legal, and actually common in Quebec. They also like to lay train tracks across major 8 lane highways without bridges or tunnels. intersections with nine or more traffic lights, well let's just say a common insult in Toronto is "You drive worse than an 80 year old Quebecer"
- It should be pointed out that, despite being illegal to pass on an on-ramp in Ontario, it's still very much a common practice, especially in rush hours (much to this Troper's chagrin) due to the lack of enforcement.
- Tom Vanderbilt's book 'Traffic' has a whole chapter on different driving attitudes around the world, with particular focus on the situation in India.
- John Douglas wrote, in his book Mindhunter, about being part of a training program that regularly invited officers from overseas. He mentions that the Japanese preferred to send pairs of officers, where one is the senior and the other the junior. There was one incident where the junior of a pair essentially acted as the senior's servant, shining his shoes, laundering his uniforms, and even serving as, basically, a practice dummy for the senior's martial arts practice. The senior was subsequently admonished that all students were to be treated equally in the program and that this was unacceptable behavior.
- Almanzo Wilder started courting Laura Ingalls when she was fifteen and he was twenty-five, and the only remark passed on that was her mother saying fifteen was young to be courted by anyone, with no mention of their age gap. The fact that Laura married at eighteen wasn't at all unusual for the time, yet now a lot of people now are squicked by Milo Ventimiglia's and Hayden Panettiere's similar age gap, largely because of Hayden's youth. However, even at the time both Laura and her cousin Lena are rather horrified when they hear of a thirteen year old girl who got married; that was unusually young even in the 1870's. It's inferred, through their discussion of responsibility and babies, that part of that mental disturbance comes from the idea of, um, certain aspects of marriage that they, being twelve and fourteen, can't even contemplate.
- This troper was in no way squicked by Milo Ventimiglia and Hayden Panettiere's age gap (the girl is 19, after all), and certainly wouldn't say no to Hayden if she was interested (even though said troper is a few months older than Milo). He was, however, squicked by the fact that the two play uncle/niece on the show, introducing an element of implied incest to the relationship.
- Well the actors were dating. The characters were not. There's hardly any incest, implied or not, to that.
- Which parts of which animals you can or can't eat depends wildly on geographical location. That should be enough told.
- Oddly for two such geographically proximate countries, the US and Canada have very different attitudes about religion. As a general rule, Canadians view faith as an intensely private matter, something that it would be considered rude to discuss with a stranger. A politician would never end a speech with "God bless Canada" if he wanted to be re-elected. (There are of course exceptions, but the prevailing attitude is "leave that stuff at home".) By contrast, many Canadians find the emphasis that Americans place on faith, especially Christianity, to be bewildering.
- It's interesting to note that the two provinces considered to be the most politically conservative (British Columbia and Alberta) also have the highest percentage of atheists. The two provinces considered to be the most politically socialist (Manitoba and Quebec) have the lowest percentage of atheists.
- Yes, because pot smoking, latte sipping, Ultra-green, West Coast BC is SO Conservative.
- For Quebec, it makes sense when one considers it's history. Until the mid 1960s, The Catholic Church held huge power in Quebec. Then came what they call the "Revolution Tranquille" (Calm Revolution) and many quebequers turned their back on the church, but NOT on the religion itself. They are still catholics, but they now hold a firm belief in the separation between church and state. And like the rest of Canada, it's a common belief here that religion is a private business. So Quebec manages to be both socialist and fairly religious at once.
- Notable Canada-U.S. differences also manifest in the respective countries' attitudes towards gun ownership and "socialism". The American attitudes towards these things have already been noted, but in Canada, handguns are heavily restricted and no one bats an eye at this, the long-gun registry being controversial more because it does little to actually stop gun crimes and makes life unnecessarily difficult for rural people. Similarly, government-run health care is a given, and any politician who tried to get rid of it would be committing career suicide. Even in Alberta, the most conservative province in the country, attempts to introduce more private delivery for healthcare has been met with a storm of protest. The socialist New Democratic Party has also wielded quite a bit of influence, governing several provinces at different points and otherwise getting its legislation passed in exchange for propping up a governing party.
- It's the same in the US. Wyoming and Idaho (near Alberta) have much more prevalent atheism than, say, New York or Massachusetts. New England, like Old England, has relatively common "identification" with a religion but that doesn't mean scrupulous or militant religiosity.
- For that matter, the US and the UK have very different views on religion as well. This American trooper, having recently visited England, was surprised at how casual religion seemed accross the pond. It seems over here (And I'm being general, excuse me), you're either a very devout and of the 'crazy' religious stance, or very liberal and close to atheist (Or at least not going to church). But the UK seems to have prevalent religion, with no real 'extremes' on either side, and it being a very casual and non-offensive talking point.
- While in general religion is fairly neutral in the UK, there's still some places where you need to watch what you say. Failure to note this may lead to some offended bloke brandishing a broken pint glass at you while raving about Catholics/Protestants/Pastafarians (delete as appropriate).
- There's also the legal contrast — America, which by comparison has so much more in the way of evangelism/fundamentalism/religious identity politics among its population, was founded with as explicit guarantee of religious freedom, and the idea of separation of church and state, even if it's not exactly always perfectly implemented, is taken very seriously. England has an official church of which the monarch is the head, complete with a history of blasphemy prosecution right up to the present day, etc. — but hardly anyone's religious. A very low percentage of the British population goes to church, and atheism isn't nearly the big deal in Britain that it often is in America.
- And an even greater contrast with Japan, where not only do you find disparate religious faiths living in the same community, you often find them living in the same person. Insofar as people observe religious practices at all, they often do so for a number of different religious simultaneously. The common saying is that everybody is Shinto on holidays, Christian on their wedding day, and Buddhist at their funerals.
- At least in Brazil, using a candidate's parentage to insult him would be considered strange (research shows that 86% of all Brazilians have at least 10% of their genomes coming from sub-Sahara Africa) and totaly abhorrent. The slogan "Everyone is a mestizo" (i.e. a mix of European, African and Amerindian blood) is popular in South America; it would not be so in the U.S.
- The "everyone is a mestizo" attitude was why the people in Venezuela who tried to bring the term "afrodescendant" in a reivindicative term in the same sense that "afro-american" in the U.S. received only mocking and disbelief as an answer.
- Overt flag-waving patriotism is uncommon in most industrialized countries, particularly those in Northern Europe. U.S. patriots holding speeches about how great their nation is are often considered haughty and somewhat creepy.
- Israel, of course, has even more patriotism than America. Getting to have a country again after not having one for two thousand years will tend to do that.
- Germany is a prime example. In fairness, when they went through that phase I hear it didn't end well.
- Patriotism in Italy is very uncommon to the point of being thought of as ridiculous, since Italy was a bunch of quarreling states that detested each other from the fall of Rome to the 19th century and it's a commonly held opinion that it doesn't really have anything to be proud about. The only people who take it very seriously are fascists.
- In the Netherlands, a country which spent quite some time under Hitler's rule, flags are always considered overly patriotic. Showing the country's four colors (a red/white/blue flag, and orange) is socially acceptable under very few circumstances: graduation, Queen's day, soccer matches and little flags at fish stands are the only ones that really come to mind. Anything beyond that just invokes Godwins Law immediately.
- A strong but understated patriotism is quite common in Ireland (which perhaps coincidentally was neutral during the Second World War). It is less overt than in America and usually served with a bit of self deprecation but it is there. Ostentatious flagwaving might get you odd looks, but it certainly isn't seen as tainted in the way that (say) the BNP has made the Union Flag in the UK.
- The St George's Cross (red cross on a white background) in the UK is considered to be flown only by BNP members and football hooligans (exceptions are made during the World Cup, but not without considerable media handwringing).
- On the other hand, the St George's Cross is only the English flag. In Wales, you can't go a mile without seeing the Welsh flag (a red dragon on a green and white background), since the Welsh have a list of grievances against England longer than Scotland's.
- Flag-waving is alive and well in France and Spain, however. Coincidentally, they host the largest and second-largest military parades in Europe, during which the crowds are plastered with red/white/blue and red/gold/red. This troper can't speak for France, but while he was living in Spain, he was amazed by how every time someone yelled, "¡Viva España!" everyone present would immediately yell "¡Viva!" Creepy indeed.
- This Spanish troper can assure you that said parade is a leftover of the old "We are the best country in the world!" parade our previous dictator Franco hosted until his death, watered down so it's not so obnoxious. You can know the kind of people who assist to said parade by noticing how many of them have fun booing our current Socialist Prime Minister and all the Government team (of course, the parading militars MUST yell ¡Viva España! if they don't want to be punished). Actually, flag-waving without a good excuse such as a sport event can make you get the adjective of "Fascist" pretty quickly.
- While it's not uncommon to see French flags in Paris' streets, actual flag-waving follows the same rules than in other European countries : besides international sport events, it would be perceived as overly chauvinistic and ridiculous and often carries far-right connotations.
- While flag waving isn't common in Northern Europe, it can vary by region too. In Finland it's only allowed during national holidays while in some places flag can be flown on personal celebrations too.
- Overt signs of patriotism (outside of highly formal occasions) are uncommon in Sweden, too, and vaguely associated with Nazism. Otherwise, there is an unspoken feeling that patriotism is something that foreigners have.
- If a Russian would display even a portion of the level of patriotism expected from an American, he or she would be labeled a Nazi in an instant. Patriotism in Russia is often viewed similarly to religion in Canada — as a something that's better keep to oneself, this attitude only reinforced by the government's abuse of patriotic rhetoric in Soviet times. On the other hand, this backlash was sometimes so severe that now there is a backlash against it.
- And as for flag-waving, until fairly recently you could be officially fined for desecrating the national symbol, due to non-existing bylaws regulating the private use of flags. Nobody up there had even a slightest idea that anyone would want to use a country's flag for anything except the official ceremony.
- A controversy erupted during an Australia vs India cricket series over Harberjan Singh calling Andrew Symonds a "monkey". Symonds (who has one Afro-Caribbean parent) took it to be a racist comment, while Singh claimed it was innocent mockery. Singh made a counter-complaint about being called a "monkey", a term that is considered extremely mild in Australia, but very insulting in India.
- Similarly, Howard Cosell's broadcasting career pretty much ended when he called a black NFL player a "little monkey," even though he used the term to describe players of all creeds, and in a positive sense.
- While not a case of modern values as much, this troper's Russian professor told us about the Russian equivalent of "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade", which translates basically as "If you're being raped, lie back and try and get the most pleasure out of it that you can". Now, most folks leave off the first part...
- That is sarcasm, comrade. - People use it to counter "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade" arguments.
- On the subject of proverbs, they can also show a difference in cultural mentality. In some cultures, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" is often accepted and implies the premise that you should speak out to get attention or risk being overlooked. In others, "the nail that stands out must be hammered down" is the more accepted cliche, with the implied moral that it's better to suffer in silence rather than risk being socially ostracized for speaking out.
- Contrary to popular belief, smoking weed is not commonly accepted in the Netherlands (except, of course, in Amsterdam). It is considered shocking to bring the subject up in casual conversation. In a group where smoking weed is accepted (often student groups, younger people, etc.), the social norm is: first ask if anyone minds, then roll a joint (tobacco with just a few buds) when you have permission from the group, then take the first toke and pass it around. Asking for a toke is never considered bumming, because weed is supposed to be shared. 99% of tourists fail to understand all this, and most Americans end up using "tourist stuff": bongs, pipes and vaporizers.
- The recreational substances dearest to the Dutch heart are coffee, coffee and more coffee.
- To the degree that This Troper kinda dotted when she saw that every single building at her university has at least one coffee machine which THE TEACHERS ALSO USE, at prices half of what she's used to... and the coffee is actually good. Talk about dissonance, when every machine coffee she ever had previously was better used as fertilizer than an actual beverage.
- Universities are said to run on coffee, and it's traditionally free for teachers. Any university administration trying to change this will have a major problem, up to strike threats from the local union.
- Pro Wrestling around the world varies according to perception and style, and wrestlers who work in multiple countries tend to adapt their style to the local brand:
- In America, at its high-points (in the 50's during television's infancy, the 80's "Hulkamania" era, and the Monday Night Wars era) it was considered a addictive, but cheesy soap opera. At worst, it's a sideshow (at times, literally). Big time wrestling (read: WWE and TNA) tend to be heavily scripted, with emphasis on storyline and "high spots" (big stunts and signature moves).
- In the days of Kayfabe, professional wrestling matches were reported on the local news as if they were college football scores.
- In Japan, "Puroresu" is given the same Serious Business respect as legitimate sports, and its participants are considered true athletes. Matches tend to be less scripted and feature more "real world" fighting moves. (Strike-type finishers like punches, kicks, and elbow strikes are common). It's not uncommon in Puroresu bouts for one opponent to immediately get up from the other's finisher and deliver his own, or for someone to have to hit his signature move three or four times to win.
- In Mexico and other parts of Latin America, Lucha Libre is Serious Business. Masked "luchadores" consider their masks and personas sacred and it's rare to see such a wrestler appear in public, sans mask...the masks themselves are throwbacks to the days of Aztec warriors, and El Santo, the most widely recognized luchador never removed his mask in public, and was indeed buried with it when he died. Indeed, performers who "lose" their masks in America, especially during a stint in WWE, will often be booed or attacked upon returning to their home country, regardless of heel/face nature (the most known example was Rey Mysterio, who lost his mask because of a poorly-executed attempt to make him "more marketable" during his WCW days still gets booed in Mexico). The action also tends to be more fast paced, with an emphasis on acrobatics and high flying moves. Power wrestlers are almost always heels (bad guys).
- In fact, wrestling in Mexico is such Serious Business that in some territories there are Mafias who enforce match stipulations such as "Loser Leaves Town".
- Not to mention that professional wrestling matches are sanctioned in Mexico via a sporting commission in the same way boxing matches are sanctioned in the United States.
- Canada sees pro wrestling as a great and long-standing tradition. Canadian wrestlers and wrestlers who have trained extensively in Canada (such as the Hart family's legendary "Dungeon") emphasize technical maneuvers, counters, and chain wrestling (that is, moves/holds transfering from one to another seamlessly). In fact, a rhyme that has cropped up in some wrestling circles is, "In Mexico, it's a religion / In Japan, it's a sport / In Canada, it's a tradition / In America, it's a joke."
- Europe tends to split the difference between America and Japan: The shows are storyline-centered, but the in-ring action tends to be more reality based (lots of amateur wrestling and brawling-type moves.)
- In America the term Oriental is considered racist, and people of South-East Asian extraction are referred to simply as Asian. In Britain the term Asian means, by and large, of any kind of Asian extraction (but is most commonly assumed to mean someone with ancestors from the Indian subcontinent) and Oriental is still considered an acceptable term when you want to narrow down the geography.
- I am English and use Asian to describe someone from the subcontinent and oriental for people from the far east because I go not want to refer to them as "Chinese" in origin which I believe runs the risk of upsetting a lot of Japanese, Koreans, Thai, Vietnamese etc
- This problem is the reason this Indian troper gets horribly confused during state tests; she's never sure whether to write "Asian" or "Other" when they ask her nationality, as "Asian" has a tendency to imply East Asian, while "Other" doesn't really work because Indian is technically Asian. When she asked other classmates about this, they weren't quite sure either.
- Where I live it's common to call anyone from the Indian Subcontinent (or even the Middle East) "Hindu" even if they're Muslim or any of the other plethora of Indian Religons.
- Just think of how the Filipinos feel.
- I just answer "Pacific Islander" whenever possible and "Asian" otherwise.
- This Hispanic Troper happens to be incredibly pale and doesn't fit the general stereotype of a Hispanic person, and neither does her Mexican-Born mother. People in rural Indiana, where I grew, believed me when I told them my race. However, when I moved to Southern California, one of my teachers told me to put 'caucasian' as my race on a standardized test because he didn't believe me.
- It is worth notice that most latinamericans don't fit the general stereotype either
- This is probably due to most American's apparent inability to understand that ethnicity and race are not the same thing.
- However, in Uruguay (the small country to the east of Argentina and south of Brazil) 'oriental' has patriotic connotations, considering that the country's 'full name' is República Oriental del Uruguay (Oriental Republic of Uruguay) which, curiously, means that the country is nameless and it's just the republic that is to the east side of the Uruguay river.
- This troper would just like to ask, what the hell are Middle-Eastern ethnicities supposed to put down on official forms that ask for our race? "Asian" implies Indian subcontinent in the UK and the Far East in the United States. Some of us can pass for "white", and some look "olive" or even "yellow" in terms of skin color — because our genes consist of a whole mess of Africans, Caucasians, and Mongol invaders mixing together with Persian and Semitic ancestry that goes back to the dawn of civilization. Still, if we aren't actually the child of a "mixed-race" marriage, putting ourselves down as mixed-race would send the wrong message. So what the hell are we?
- In Europe, asking for someone's race on a form like this would be seen as racist. You're not supposed to treat people differently because of the race, so why would it be nessecary to know it in the first place?
- Affirmative action, which causes values dissonance in and of itself. Some, possibly all, businesses are required by law to hire a certain number/percentage of minorities and women.
- Except that they're not. That's one of the biggest affirmative action strawmen out there. Quotas have been illegal since a Supreme Court ruling in 1978.
- Not in Australia, however. Federal legislation makes affirmative action illegal (it's anti-discrimination law).
- There's also statistics and demographics, since pretty much the only tests (at least in the US) that ask for ethnicity are the standarized and state tests.
- This troper had a (blond haired, blue eyed, white skinned) South African friend who delighted in putting 'African-American' on forms... he was a naturalized American, and actually was born in Africa. He said he liked to watch people squirm as they tried to figure out how to say 'You're not black' when you can't say 'black'.
- There's another one! Here in Britain, 'Black' is considered the most commonly used term, and is considered to be perfectly fine and not int he least bit rude.
- This troper had a (white) friend from New Zealand who would put "Pacific Islander" down on such forms.
- One random anecdote deals with a British physician setting up a medical school in China in the 19th Century. He asked a government official if the school could get a supply of cadavers for dissection. The official was horrified! Desecrating the dead is barbaric! However, he assured the doctor the school could have an unlimited supply of live criminals.
- In several European countries, children get their presents a few days before Christmas in a visit from St. Nicholas (Santa Claus, Father Christmas, whatever) and his helpers, who are often in blackface. The real St. Nicholas had amassed some disciples among the Moorish people. There was a Victorian era morality tale where St. Nicholas dipped some naughty boys into a giant ink well for making fun of a "black-a-moor."
- The concepts of property and usage rights can vary wildly between countries: All Nordic countries, which generally have more nature than they know what to do with, and some others have Freedom to Roam
statutes regulating what you can or cannot do on privately owned land. America (or parts thereof?) apparently have land laws with a lot of "use it or lose it," and trespassers who have really bad manners too often. You can guess how the stereotype of a hick who takes a shotgun to trespassers goes over in the Nordic countries. (The countries even have low gun crime rates to make the shock worse.)
- T.E. Lawrence in his memoirs noted among other things that European considered killing a crippled horse an act of mercy (and probably could take a dim view of a man not doing so) while for Arab it's rather appalling.
- There is a disagreement between those who believe the obese should lose weight and those who believe they should accept their obesity.
- There are also groups that support anorexia and being underweight, as well as those that don't.
- The disagreement in both cases is really about someone's comfort with having to look at people who don't meet a societal norm vs. those people's right to not fit the societal norm. (It's even worse with respect to the disabled. There are forums out there where it's perfectly acceptable to say that a child born with a physical disability should be murdered at birth, because the speaker wouldn't want to look that way. Do they not hear how murderously psychopathic they sound? Yes, even if they preface their remarks with a big fake "aw, it's so sad"?)
- Sometimes, it's about health, but often, it is about looks. Very few people, no matter their size, can honestly be said to be in perfect health. However, many people who are overweight, either naturally or due to lifestyle factors, do fit within acceptable health range. The same can be said for most naturally underweight people. Though, those who under-eat are usually more at risk, health-wise, than those who overeat. Yet, many people prefer the thin and declare them healthy while shunning the overweight under the guise of caring for their health.
- This trope can even affect news coverage of health-related matters. A recent study supposedly found that eating as little as possible extends life - you probably saw it in your local newspaper or online. However, if you look at the actual study (instead of relying only on news articles about it), it turns out that the researchers excluded all deaths in their test subjects that weren't due to diseases considered "conditions of old age". But diseases related to undernourishment or being underweight aren't considered "conditions of old age", so they basically deliberately excluded any evidence that being underweight could cause early death. In other words, the study is scientifically unsound hogwash. Yet every news outlet on Earth reported it uncritically.
- The infamous Michael Fay case and other instances where a developing country's continuing use of judicial corporal punishment came up against first-world Western notions of torture.
- First-world Western notions of torture.
- From a purely economic perspective, Singapore hasn't been a "developing country" for decades. Though it's true that most countries of similar GDP don't cane criminals.
- Sharia law
has a number of interpretations, some of which are quite moderate by Western standards. More fundamentalist interpretations contain elements that seem completely barbaric to outsiders, like the death penalty for apostasy (or for adultery, or a hundred other things...). Saudi Arabia in particular has a very bad record in terms of human rights , including things like slavery, torture, and institutionalized rape.
- For a recent sports-related example involving three different cultures, look at the issue of the Spanish Basketball Team's photo
with their eyes slit to give themselves an "Asian" look some days before the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The image was heavily criticized in the British and North American press, claiming that it was racist and the team should apologize to their Chinese hosts. The Spanish press meanwhile presented the issue as an example of Anglo-Saxon overreaction to a good-hearted joke, "obviously" derived from these countries being afraid of their own racism. Finally, when Chinese authorities were asked if they were offended by this polemic they had totally overlooked, their reaction was something like "...are you f*cking kidding me?".
- When this troper lived in the US and was applying for a job at Wal-Mart he had to take a mandatory drug test before he was hired. When he told his friends in the UK about it they were absolutely bewildered.
- Suddenly, a lot of things about the level of service given in UK establishments makes sense.
- Hmmm...how about the Roman Polanski kerfuffle with France, Poland, and Hollywood on one side, and the rest of humanity on the other. Or is it TooSoon?
- Socialised Medicine — OH, LORE! Where do we begin?
- Even though Michael Moore's Sicko is considered to have a rose-tinted view of the National Health Service, ask a Brit and they'll probably say "OK, it's shit but at least it's not as shot as bad as the the American system." In the film Tony Benn says that even the the most right-wing politician wouldn't dare remove the NHS, for fear of revolution. Revolution would be the best case scenario, the worst being an uprising which ends in nation's destruction in hope of something better rising from the ashes.
- Health insurance concepts in general. It's a far outlier in India, even in major cities and among the rich. In the United States, paying cash for medical procedures is not unheard of, but uncommon. In Europe, it's a far outlier to use anything but the public system, but those who aim for the private system have private insurance as often as not. In parts of Canada, private insurance is plain illegal while everyone's under the public system.
- The practice of bounty hunting is legal only in the Philippines and 46 US states (Oregon, Kentucky, Illinois and Wisconsin do not allow it.) Most of the world, even places where police abuse is common and torture is regularly used in interrogations, consider the idea absolutely abhorrent.
- Likewise, the concept of citizen's arrests. While nearly universal among even remotely common law nations in statute, with some variation for name in Hong Kong, the United Kingdom, and North Carolina, practice varies dramatically. In rural areas, especially the rural United States, such things find a response of applause, while more gentrified areas generally don't find the idea nearly as appealing.
- This german Troper has often noticed the differences between the US and German movie rating systems: The US system tends to be harsher towards nudity and sexual content and more lenient towards violence, while in the german system it is the exact opposite. For example, American Pie has an R rating in the US, but an FSK 12 (Ages 12 and up) here in Germany where it is seen as a harmless teenager comedy film.
- For all the flack humans give their own species, other animal species seem to get a comparatively free pass. Despite their idealized reputation, many animal species do things that would be considered from immoral to horrifying if humans did them such as mating with more than one partner, Parental Abandonment, and even eating their own babies
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