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I'm not sure if that's a narrative trope and doesn't apply to real people, but that example as written doesn't match the trope.
Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.
I don’t know what the thought process of the troper who wrote this example was, but mine is that someone changing their views to your own qualifies as a defeat for them, and failing to convert someone else to your viewpoint is a defeat for you. But personal definitions of defeat aside, reading the example again made me realize that Fire-Forged Friends fits what is written better. You okay with the write-up as is staying on the page, but as a Fire Forged Friends example instead?
^ Defeat Means Friendship IRL has a page.
Edited by Kevjro7
A lot of those examples on the RL page are stretching the definition IMO, since "war allies" aren't quite the same as "friends," but that might be saved for a different thread.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I wonder if that trope should be made NRLEP, but again that should be brought up in a different thread.
Also, I don't recall Mauler engaging in any significant disagreement/fight/debate with the names listed in that entry, so it's definitely not an example. It sounds like a shoehorning that says "these two creators share an opinion".
Edited by Adept
Fire-Forged Friends seems to fit even less. What's the common struggle they're going through here? How are they "fighting on the same side" in any way?
My stories on AO3.
^ The only common thread I see between them is their shared dislike over the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Mauler did cameo in one of Jay's video on how The Rise of Skywalker is an embarrassing failure.
Kevjro: I think Defeat Means Friendship requires that the persons involved are originally enemies or very serious rivals, not just that they have different opinions. So whether the trope applies here depends on the situation.
Did these people see themselves as enemies of Mauler before they switched sides? And were they actually defeated in the discussion, or were they just convinced "peacefully"? My point is that you don't have to feel defeated in a discussion just because your counterpart manages to convince you.
I mean, if I'm discussing with someone I initially think is not just wrong, but also an a-hole, and they manage to convince me that not only are they right, but they're actually quite a nice guy, I don't necessarily take that as a defeat.
Edited by GnomeTitan
^ Just to be clear, I do not think Defeat Means Friendship fits the write-up anymore, and even if I did, the only thing that should matter is this website's definition of a defeat, not my own.
After reading the trope page, the laconic, and examples in the subpages, I realize now that fighting on the same side is a prerequisite for Fire-Forged Friends.note So unless having the same opinions on Star Wars and appearing in videos and podcasts together qualifies as fighting on the same side, Fire Forged Friends doesn't fit either. Does this qualify as fighting on the same side?
By the way, should I send a notifier of this query to the troper who wrote the original example?
^ I don't see how that would qualify as FFF. What are they fighting against? Simply collaborating on something doesn't seem severe enough to warrant that.
My stories on AO3.
It's not an example, therefore it should just be removed. Mauler is a video essayist anyway, and his content don't really have any narratives, so I daresay most of the trope that can be listed on his page are the ones that he explicitly discuss
Edited by Adept
Feels like you may want to discuss that on the discussion page.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
^^ If that's the case, then a bunch of tropes on that page need to be cut. I've lately been chipping away at some of the more obviously incorrect examples (or else bringing them here), but if the narrative-based ones should also go, I can take care of that too.
Edit: just saw the thing about the discussion page. Agreed, that's wider than this thread.
Edited by caivu My stories on AO3.
Kevjro 7 and I are disagreeing over this entry on WebVideo/MauLer:
I don't believe this to be an example in any case. As written, it has nothing to do with anyone being defeated or losing at all, and the justifying claim in the most recent edit reason that restored this example says "And the reason why these qualify as defeats is because all these people ended up agreeing with MauLer's opinions and became friendly with him," which doesn't make clear if those people lost a debate to him or came around to agreeing with him independently.
Edited by caivu