Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
I can agree that Forces is not very high on the Darker and Edgier list in terms of Sonic plots. I also agree that SA2's plot fits Darker and Edgier better for the series as a whole, for the reasons you said. Even 06's plot, with its Bad Future, a princess who cannot express sad emotions very well or else she releases a god wanting to eat all time and space, being willingly kidnapped, Sonic actually being killed off for a short bit and others grieving over it was darker than Forces in terms of narrative stakes.
Edited by Albert3105
I think the darkest thing in Forces was Sonic supposedly being tortured, but there's no evidence that it even happened outside of the English Translation claiming so.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I agree that even Sonic '06, for all its flaws, at least succeeded in being dark.
pee pee poo poo
So you’re proposing that we just replace this current entry with complaining about how badly it used this trope?
Why not just delete it althogehter?
Also, a muted art style is not Darker and Edgier.
Edit: You should’ve taken this to the Is this an example thread on the forums too.
Edited by PlasmaPower Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Should this entry on WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids.Video Games convince you?
- Sonic Forces has Eggman taking over 99% of the world, Scenery Gorn, a merciless villain, Sonic mentioned to have been tortured for 6 monthsnote , and a few innocent cartoon Funny Animals getting killed on-screen briefly in one cutscene and many more being Killed Offscreen... (They get better.)
Sonic Forces attempted to be Darker and Edgier than recent entries in the series — which had been Lighter and Softer since Sonic Colors — but it fell flat to pretty much everyone, since basically everything happened offscreen and was really underdeveloped.
I'd say just cut the whole thing.
Edited by Primis
That entry doesn't convince me, in fact it just looks like a silly reason to list it under What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? just because Eggman took over the world and Sonic maybe dies. Also we don't actually see any resistance members die (yes they get blasted in one scene but there's no indication that they're dead). Yes, there are implicit references to death but they would probably fly over a kid's head.
Also I just think that it's noteworthy that Sonic Team tried pushing for a Darker and Edgier entry in the Sonic series but didn't quite make the mark.
Let's just cut it. I'll post something like this on the forum next time.
Edited by supernintendo128 pee pee poo poo
How about we label it as Subverted?
(Is it just me or am I a noobier Sonic fan than I thought despite being in the fandom for 5 years?)
Content Warning: My posts may involve my actions dealing with R-rated or Not Safe For Work content. Same for my edit history.
^ Subverted still requires narrative intent; you can't unintentionally subvert a trope.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
We could cite the references to torture, insanity, and war as the reason why it's subverted.
Edited by supernintendo128 pee pee poo poo
^ That's... still not what subversion means.
Subversion means you intentionally set up to a trope and then intentionally subvert the audience's expectations by doing something different.
It's not "creator tried to do this but failed miserably to write it well".
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I can see it being a subversion of Darker and Edgier. The first trailer definitely made it look as if Forces was going to be the franchise's Darkest Hour, with Sonic giving a Death Glare as Eggman's army ravages a city. However, when the game came out, not only was the writing as comical and cheesy as in the previous titles, but the stakes were actually lower than before. Sure, Eggman conquered the world, but when you take into consideration that his two previous plans involved destroying the very fabric of reality and draining the life force of everyone on Earth...
Edited by TantaMonty
It's only a subversion if they intentionally meant for it to not be Darker and Edgier. If they actually intended the game to be darker than the previous ones, we can't call their failure a "subversion". It'll only apply if they intended for the game to not be darker than before.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
what about infinite attempting to burn everyone to death by dropping a sun on them
Content Warning: My posts may involve my actions dealing with R-rated or Not Safe For Work content. Same for my edit history.
Darker and Edgier is not a subjective trope. Is it clear that the game was intended to be darker than previous releases? If so, it should be listed as a trope. Do fans think that it fails in its attempt to be darker and edgier? Doesn't matter, DAE is not YMMV.
they/them || "Forgive me, regent of queer amphibians" - Lt.BGob
It is the darkest game since Colors. How well it does or doesn't do it doesn't make it any less this trope as it at least tried to be dark.
I'm sorry but if it tries to be Darker and Edgier but fails, it doesn't count. If an example has to start with "Well, the author intended for it to be this trope but...", it's not an example.
pee pee poo poo
^ That thought process makes no sense. It doesn't matter if the audience thinks the creator failed, it just matters what the creator was going for.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^ We could list Forces's darkness turn as downplayed instead of subverted. It's sequentially darker than the later modern games like Colors but not anywhere near the darkness level as the earlier modern games like '06 and SA2.
Edited by Albert3105
^ I think that would be a good compromise.
pee pee poo poo
The two other bullet points relating to flamethrowers and Eggman wanting to beat Sonic for good can go though for not really qualifying as dark.
Like do Wisps suffer horrific pain upon being used for powers? Does it inflict a special kind of pain on its victims within the narrative? Is it a violation of some in-universe custom? If not, I'm really doubtful of using Wisps as weapons is dark in itself.
And also Eggman wanting to beat Sonic for good is in itself nothing special and I have a real aversion of using Darker and Edgier on pre-released works anyway due to trailer-showcased dark moments being diluted by the non-dark moments in the final product.
Edited by Albert3105
An excerpt from the Sonic Forces trope page:
The first point is based on the trailer, the second is Fridge Logic/Horror, and the third isn't a strong supporter for the game's Darker and Edgier status (Dr. Eggman tries to kill Sonic and co. every game, and just because he came closer to doing so here makes the game Darker and Edgier?). As a whole, I feel that these points are just generally over-exaggerating how gritty this game actually is.
If anything, this entry should describe how the game attempts to be Darker and Edgier, but falls flat compared to a game like Sonic Adventure 2 which dealt with themes like sacrifice, loss of a loved one, and going mad with vengeance while Sonic Forces had some off-hand mentions of torture and insanity (neither of which amount to anything, and neither were present in the Japanese version), and a war that keeps getting mentioned but we never actually see the effects of other than stuff getting blown up. (Also this is just my opinion but Infinite is so badly written that it's hard to take him seriously.) At the very least, we can talk about the art style, which is definitely less colorful than previous installments.
Edited by supernintendo128