During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Kitana
The wifi here sucks
yes to Kitana, keep the song candidates
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Ray, Calico (Ah, nostalgia), and Kitana.
Yes to Calico and Kitana.
Also, I bought another Serial Box podcast, Black Widow Bad Blood, that one ended months ago and I might listen to it this week.
I love podcasts, but most of them are not fictional stories, but apparently, Robert Evans, the host of Behind the Bastards, is going to read chapters of a prose novel he wrote back in 2016 in podcast form, which could have a keeper in it. I listened to the first one, it is interesting.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 5th 2021 at 7:01:24 AM
Okay, just rewatched another old b-movie and found an entry:
What is the Work?
Anacondas: The Hunt for the Blood Orchid is the 2004 sequel to Anaconda in which a pharmaceutical company expedition to Borneo looking for the botanical equal of the Fountain of Youth.
Who is Dr. Jack Byron and What have they Done?
Jack Byron is the greedy, glory hungry leader of the expedition. Wanting to gain the Blood Orchid to make as much money and get as famous as possible, Jack hires Captain Bill Johnson to take them down river to find it. When warned about dangerous waters ahead that pose a serious risk to them, he ignores it, endangering everyone and keeping it between him and Bill.
When they're left shipwrecked in the jungle, he is still dedicated to getting his orchid, overlooking the danger even when the Anacondas start picking off his team. This is to the point of intentionally hiding a phone that can get them to safety purely to keep them on track. When Gordon finds this out, Byron proceeds to have him bitten by a spider that will completely paralyzes you for two days to silence him, resulting in him being Eaten Alive by one of the snakes. While the rest of the party is trying to kill the snake, he proceeds to steal their raft and leave them stranded in the forest with the horde of snakes, intending to get the orchid and escape while claiming they all died.
When the group manages to catch up with him, he proceeds to shoot Bill in the arm and force Sam, at gunpoint, to collect the orchids...right above the mating ball of giant Anacondas rather than risk his own hide, threatening to shoot the rest of the group if she doesn't. When the log she's on is about to give out, he forces her to throw him the bag and tries to run and leave the group to the Anacondas, only to be stopped by Bill. In the resulting struggle, Jack falls down in a desperate attempt to get the orchids, only to get bitten by the same spider he used to kill Gordon and fall into the mating ball where he's torn apart by the snakes.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Jack says the Orchid will help the world...but it's made clear he's a Glory Hound who wants to become rich and famous by any means necessary, even multiple counts of murder, one of which is outstandingly horrid even by genre standards.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Jack is the movie's Big Bad and the most horrible person in it. The Anacondas are...anacondas, and in this movie portrayed solely as animals protecting their territory. The movie is not connected to the first film, so he and Paul from the first film don't co-exist. Even if they did, I'd say they're comparable if not Jack being somewhat worse.
Final Verdict?
I'd say a . The guy is a selfish, glory hungry monster and I'd say even by the standards of the genre, he stands out. Helps he's in the only sequel to Anaconda worth actually watching.
Edited by Godzillawolf on Feb 5th 2021 at 10:04:42 AM
Wouldn't this immediately disqualify him?
Well-Intentioned Extremist: Jack ends up finding the possibility of human lifespan extension well worth sacrificing the lives of his colleagues.
Although, he doesn't display any source of comedy. Even Paul from the first film. as bad as he is is partly comedic.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
In that case... to Dr. Bryon.
Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Feb 5th 2021 at 7:12:07 AM
No, because they make it clear he's out for money and glory and that's just how he tries to get them on board.
...That needs to be changed, I'll go do that.
EDIT: To explain, his 'good intentions' only show up when he needs to convince someone. When he doesn't, all he talks about is the money and fame to come with the discovery, making it clear the 'it's for humanity' part is just something he's using to get people on board.
Edited by Godzillawolf on Feb 5th 2021 at 10:11:44 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
to Kitana.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Feb 5th 2021 at 11:56:33 AM
What's the work?
Southern Gothic follows Hazel Fortune, an alcoholic strip club bouncer with a Dark and Troubled Past who, after bringing one of the dancers, Starla Motes home, befriends her and her daughter Hope. The dancer is kidnapped by the town's recently-turned vampiric preacher.
Who is Enoch Pitt? What has he done?
Enoch Pitt is the town preacher, who was already a rather shady figure before he became a vampire. He'd frequent the strip club, assaulted one of the dancers in the past, and tried to do the same thing again in the present, pulling a switchblade on the bouncer when he tries to pull him away from her. Humiliated, he returns to his church to pray for forgiveness, and is attacked by a vampire who he shoots, then he bleeds out. The same vampire's protege is sent to finish him off, but he slashes her throat and buries her, then (offscreen) returns to the strip club and kills one of the girls, stuffing her body in the outdoor freezer.
Now feeling the thirst but unsure how to quench it, Pitt goes to a diner and drinks a couple glasses of water before attacking and feeding on the waiter and the deputy there. Fully reconciling with his new existence and thanking God for making him "his instrument of destruction", he announces to his congregation that he's the second coming of Christ (without using those exact words), inviting them to be "baptized". They start planning a massacre in town, starting with the strip club, killing almost everyone inside and turning Starla and another dancer.
After an ill-fated attempt to find Starla in the club, Fortune and Hope return to her house, confronted by Pitt's Brute and his Renfield/Dragon, who abduct Hope to bring to Pitt. The following night, as Fortune breaks into Pitt's house and attempts to save Hope, they're ambushed by Pitt and his lackeys, and Pitt sends his dragon down to torture Fortune and personally takes Hope to his church to "baptize" her into their "family", using an 18-year-old boy from his congregation to stand guard and make sure they don't escape. When Starla sweet-talks the boy into letting them go, Pitt shows up and shoots him in the head.
Eventually, Fortune comes in and confronts him, while Pitt holds Hope at gunpoint. There's a scuffle, Hope gets away from him, and soon it's just Pitt and Fortune against each other. As Pitt starts raving about how only he can give eternal life, Fortune blows his head off mid-sentence.
Mitigating factors?
Nothing that really holds water. He does turn his Renfield/Dragon, Brother Silas, like he'd promised he would, but before that, he threatens to, and I quote, "rip out his tongue and staple it to his forehead" because he asked why he was keeping Starla. He's pretty much a textbook Bad Boss otherwise, as seen when he shoots Jakob for trying to let Starla and Hope escape.
Though he talks about making a family out of himself, Starla, and Hope, even calling Hope "beautiful", that loses its credibility considering that one, he's holding them against their will, two, that he was gonna kill Hope, and three, is vampirism really the blessing he makes it out to be?
He was also a pretty sleazy person before he was turned, and even then, vampires aren't inherently evil here. The one good guy vamp and his protege only went after bad people and even helped Fortune take on Pitt and his congregation, plus Starla was clearly trying to fight her thirst.
Lastly, his condemnation of "child murderers"... well, knowing that he's a Christian zealot, it should be pretty clear just what he means by that.
Heinous standard?
The only vampire who's explicitly shown or at least strongly implied to have killed undeserving people. No contest. The only other one who stands out is his Brute Tobias, who's a Torture Technician, but hasn't killed anyone.
Verdict?
Keep.
Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 5th 2021 at 11:06:43 AM
Image Pickin thread for The Otherworld Page is now opened.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Kitana, Byron, and Pitt (another one for William Forsythe)
to Kitana Kellaway and Enoch Pitt.
As for Dr. Jack Byron, do we know how many people he would've shot in the group because he kind of sounds more callous than monstrous, based on the effort post. After thinking about it, I'll lean as his murder of Gordon is pretty heinous and he stands out in comparison to the other keeper, Paul Sarone.
Edited by DrUnknown on Feb 5th 2021 at 9:41:31 AM
Kitana, Byron and Pitt
Goku Black
Kitana, Byron, and Pitt
to Calico, Kitana, Jack and Enoch.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Calico, Kitana, Byron.
Pitt...leaning yes, but even if he's a Bad Boss, he DID keep his word; unless he did that to have a stronger enforcer, I'm a bit wary.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Kitana and Calico (new candidates still never fail to surprise me). Yes to Enoch too.
Edited by emperors on Feb 6th 2021 at 4:51:11 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
to Ray Marcus, Calico, Kitana, Jack Byron and Enoch Pitt. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Kiara Sessyoin.
to Ray Marcus, Dr. Calico, Kitana Kellaway, Dr. Jack Byron and Enoch Pitt.
The MILF Virus
Ray , Dr. Calico, , Dr. Jack Byron and Enoch Pitt. I actually considered Kitana myself because man she's such a bitch and I do think you gave her justice. I was wondering if you were considering putting up Batu? Guy might be wanting to summon an evil god to the world like other villains, but unlike other antagonist this guy is not a sorcerer or possess magic like other villains, he's a "normal" human who does know magic exist.
@Ravok: Shouldn't the writeup start like this? Considering it's from the video game only and not from the movie.
2009 video game:
Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Feb 6th 2021 at 5:58:18 AM
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
funny you should mention that. He already proposed Batu a few pages back.
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
to Kitana, Byron, and Pitt.
The MILF Virus
I see, I'm surprise he didn't mention Batu's motive, that his family had a lineage of sorcerors but Batu himself wasn't born with any and couldn't use magic, so out of petty spite he would someone the Faceless Ones to get magic while becoming a god. Literally one of the pettiest motives I've ever saw someone try to end the world.
Style over scale? I'll say yes to Kitana.