During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Sugar
The Moron
My lord, with a name like Sugarman... easy yes
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Couldn't tell you, but I can say that you don't need to worry about spoiler tagging on this thread. That's what the two week wait is for
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 3rd 2021 at 12:00:50 PM
Anyone from Hitman 3 count? Haven't bought it yet, but from what I heard, Hush is a contender.
The wifi here sucks
to Xena (man I remember watching that anime years ago...), Sugar
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We have to wait two weeks after something gets released.
Xena & sugar (*wretch*)
The Unknown Unknown
Sugar Man. Man, if the "What's he done" section had ended at the 1st paragraph, that'd still be enough.
I think the funniest thing about Sugarman qualifying is that this is at least the third character with that specific name to come through here. I remember I got up one guy on the Milestone page and I'm dead positive one other guy came through.
That all aside, obvious yes to him.
Lizzid people!
Sugarman
to Sugar Man.
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to Sugarman.
Feels good, don't it?
Xena and Sugar Man
Yo, I think we might need to relitigate a few characters from The Elder Scrolls, primarily the Dragon Priests Rahgot and Hevnoraak. Online introduces about half-a-dozen more mostly generic Dragon Priests, but there is one who concerns me: Zaan the Scalecaller, a Dragon Priest of no repute in life and with the backing of the weakest Daedric Prince in the current day who tries to unleash a lethal plague upon Tamriel and kill off all life on the continent.
Yeah. She has our current Dragon Priest keepers minced in attempted body count one-hundred to one. Now, there are a few potential counterpoints—Zaan herself doesn't count. She's heavily indicated to still care about the dragon who initially appointed her as its Dragon Priest, and has been dwelling in misery over the rejection so long even the psycho cult she allies herself with can see it in the present day. Furthermore the plan technically isn't hers—she was inadvertently resurrected by the cult who already had the idea to unleash the plague and she just sort of hijacked it (the dude who initially came up with the idea, TBH, might be worth a post himself).
She's lacking the sadistic flourishes of Hevnoraak who might be able to stay by virtue of the sheer Cruel and Unusual Death and Cold-Blooded Torture all over his dungeon (not a single other Dragon Priest out of like two-dozen named ones has the obvious fetish for torture Hevnoraak has) but TBH, I think Rahgot who "just" poisons a water supply needs to go. Zaan is attempting what Rahgot does times a hundred.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 4th 2021 at 1:38:07 PM
Cut Rahgot
Here's a really quick post on that plague cult leader guy, BTW—from the "Plans of Pestilence" quest in Online, we have Nathien Mortieu.
Who is Mortieu? What has he done?
Mortieu is a dedicant of Peryite, the weakest Daedric Prince and one chiefly associated with plagues. Mortieu has a Nurglite-esque adoration for rotting diseases and comes into Scalecaller Peak, where he starts testing his diseases on the otherwise peaceful monsters of the mountain, driving them to kill everyone who comes onto the mountain in their agonized madness, including some of Mortieu's own cultists ("what is discovery without a few deaths?" Mortieu says, totally apathetic).
Mortieu awoke Zaan and eagerly allied with her in hopes of his master plan; unleashing an agonizing plague upon all of Tamriel and possibly even beyond: "Our blessing is now ready. It shall spread, an all-consuming plague which will bury this world in corpses. This nasty, imperfect world, with no order, no respect. All will belong to my Lord, to his order. Their laughing will be drowned out by coughs, their impertinent words choking in their throat as bile builds. I'll make them beautiful, perfect. And then they shall die, lying in their own filth. My heart flutters just imagining the sight." Mortieu eagerly plans expose the nearest village to the plague to kill everyone there as a test drive, though he's slain by the hero before he can wipe it out.
Any mitigating factors?
Okay, we know the drill with the standard, and Online has a lot of mass-murdering bastards, but...seldom do we get random, fuck-off necromancers as genuine omnicidal maniacs, fewer still who want to do it with a horrible plague instead of just "blow it up with magic" (like Ancano) and none who do it with no other backing aside from the weakest of the Dragon Priests and the weakest of the Daedric Princes. It sounds like a lot for a necromancer, but keep in mind this is a guy who would otherwise be around the level of like Sild the Warlock who blundered into an alliance with a Dragon Priest and has an endgame that's potentially up there with genuine Big Bad-level villains in terms of the scale and agony he plans to inflict. At the least, Mortieu wants to kill tens of millions; most arc villains in Online (even major, major villains like High Kinlady Estre—who currently counts—and Thallik Wormfather) don't try for that many.
Mortieu despises his own mother, thinks Zaan isn't dedicated enough to the apocalypse they plan to unleash, his loyalty to Peryite is cultist lunacy and he's well-characterized by a series of journals we find. The dude's even a sadist on a personal level who openly says he'd enjoy burning the hero to death as much as he would poisoning them.
Conclusion?
Cut Rahgot and Zaan is never gonna make it for the trope, but I think this guy can get in even for the standard of Online.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 4th 2021 at 2:02:31 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Xena (Drafts please).
Yes to Sugarman (what a strange-looking fellow). I guess he'll go on the tree with Dark Beast and Holocaust? Also, is the Even Evil Has Standards for Age's Sinister accurate, or just Pragmatic Villainy?
EDIT: Cut Rahgot and yes to the new dude. BTW, the Daedric Princes all have agency issues, right?
Edited by ACW on Feb 4th 2021 at 4:05:48 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Xena, Sugar Man and Mortieu. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Brad.
Yes to Mortieu
Goku Black
Xena, Sugar Man and Mortieu
Rahgot
Uh, so would I be able to update William Afton's description? It's somewhat outdated due to new games and has slight misinformation.
Such as?
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
to Xena, Sugar Man, and Mortieu.
to Rahgot.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Sugar Man, dear god.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.