During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Louis Bauer, as I agree with Scraggle's reasoning.
Current mood: sick of your shit
(Continuing from [1])
Made the changes to YMMV.Beasts Of Burden and Sandbox.Monster Comic Books A To H. The former required some slight rephrasing, from
That also leaves the first "Harrow" without a pothole. ~Lightysnake, any ideas for a replacement?
I'd just leave it unpotholed until someone wants to put something in. Likewise gotta say sadly the Gaslight guy ain't quite cutting it for me.
Hey, Twiddler, thanks for that catch, mate! Aye, What The Cat Dragged In is indeed a standalone!
Also,a HUGE thanks to 43 for help with this series, both here and at MB...I give you now, the only villain who can possibly be worthy of discussion in this series: Hakudoshi, the White Child.
Who is Hakudoshi?
Naraku reproduces like a fuckin' Mogwai exposed to water and has a bunch of kids. Upon Naraku's detachment, the Infant, deciding it doesn't want to serve the ruthless sadist anymore, The Infant is cut in half, giving rise to Hakudoshi when a new being forms. Hakudoshi is a delicate looking little boy with long white hair, and quickly claims a demon horse named Entei by murdering Entei's previous owner. By this point, the Shikon Jewel is almost complete with the final shard in the land of the dead. Hakudoshi wants the shard himself, searching for it by murdering demons and searching their memories until he finds the land of the dead. Oh, and he abuses Kagura. Badly. Like he uses her to test if the Gate between realms is safe, freely admitting she'd be in serious trouble if it wasn't and when she attacks him, she gets a painful reminder of Naraku squeezing her heart since he feels her attacking Hakudoshi.
Hakudoshi is assigned to assist the ruthless Bird yokai Princess Abi who's killing loads and loads of humans to collect their blood for her mom. Hakudoshi's job? Help with blood collection, which suits him fine since he's a sadistic little bugger. After all this, Entei is killed and Hakudoshi defeated. Operating on Naraku's orders, Hakudoshi proceeds to kill a rat yokai to claim and shrine and unleash a massive army of rats that consume loads of villages in one of the highest bodycounts in the entire series in order to lure Kikyo out into the open...Hakudoshi gleefully remarks he plans to continue this and overrun everything if he doesn't catch Kikyo before the rats are wiped out.
Later, Hakudoshi begins killing demons to use in experiments, eventually crafting a powerful Yokai called Moryomaru from the pieces of others....Hakudoshi tries to play both sides between Naraku and the Infant as a sadistic little brat as ever...unfortunately, Hakudoshi is an amateur at the game that Naraku is a master of. Naraku seemingly pardons Hakudoshi and sends him out, Hakudoshi constantly taunting Kagura over "dad's gonna kiiiiill you" until Kagura rends him apart...now, Miroku, the monk of Team Inuyasha has the powerful black hole in his hand he can't use against Naraku because Naraku keeps a bunch of poison wasps that'll fatally envenom him, that he also uses to protect his followers ....that he withdraws at just the vital time, making Hakudoshi realize he's been abandoned. Miroku unleashes the wind tunnel as a panicked Hakudoshi struggles to escape, only to be sucked up and devoured by it, something invariably fatal.
Mitigating Qualities?
Okay, let's get it outta the way: being a Naraku detachment is no bar to agency. There are like ten of them, of varying levels of sadism and nastiness. Goshinki is a giant ogre who's a gleeful sadist and loves eating people, Juromaru and Kageromaru are just vicious attack dogs, Byakuya is a lackadaisical fellow who doesn't have a sadistic bone in his body and is just "eh, sure whatever" over following Naraku. Kanna is an emotionless girl without any sadism and Kagura has a laundry list of redeeming features.
Hakudoshi is the child most like Naraku. He's all of Naraku's sadism without the intellect, restraint and foresight, taking a vicious glee in the suffering of other. He has zero by way of decent qualities and spends most of his time hurting everything around him or scheming to overthrow his father.
Now, let's talk heinousness, okaaaaay...so...Inuyasha has one of the most insane heinous standards imaginable, I'm serious. This is like Warhammer 40K of "lots of people doing horrible things so nobody sticks out." Hey, look at the guy who has his wolves eat an entire village of innocent people! Horrible, right? This is forgotten and he becomes a good guy with nobody even remarking on this.
Yeah, there are about 10-15 villains at least who would be shoe ins with a saner standard. There's the Peach Hermit who is a vicious cannibal and devours people by the bucketload, Taigokumaru, a bat demon who sends his soldiers to feast on the blood of villages and murdered his own son for falling in love with a human woman, there's the false water god, who usurps a benevolent deity to eat children alive, the salamnder demon who assists serial killers, Princess Abi who creates literal rivers of blood, Renkotsu, who's a smug, mass murdering prick who betrays his own 'family' and murders them for power...It's to the level where uniqueness stops being relevant since there are so many varying crimes that nobody sticks out except Naraku, who is responsible for every bad thing to everyone, to the point I was just waiting for the reveal he got little Shippo's dad killed, started the Crusades through time travel and faked the moon landing.
So, Hakudoshi. Let's talk about it. Setting aside he's such a vicious little sadist who kills a bunch of people...the stunt with the demon rats is entirely unique to him, and incredibly horrible, immediately giving him one of the highest bodycounts in series. He also intends, very clearly to ramp it up way further, and this isn't on Naraku's direct orders but just him being a smug little brat who loves to hurt people. Add this to the mass murders he's already committed, the twisted experiments to create moryomaru and how he treats everyone around him, I think he squeaks over, particularly considering he is far from the higher levels of power in this series.
I would say Hakudoshi keeps.
When I say I scrutinized this series for non-Naraku keepers that's an understatement. Hundreds of bodies is nothing in this work. Then I came to Hakudoshi's arc and for a while he wasn't really registering for me. At the end of the day he's the most pathetic and least intelligent of the infant's conspiracy and that results in Naraku killing him the fastest. In spite of that? His plan to lure out Kikyo was all him, Naraku's only instruction was for him to do what he saw fit, the rats were all on Hakudoshi. It's one of the single nastiest attacks in the series, with Sango noting they saw "countless" villages reduced to broken buildings and skeleton corpses. Not only that but he says he'll find equally horrible things to do until Kikyo takes the bait when he's unsuccessful. His Mad Scientist flourishes in creating Moryomaru to guard the infant and dickery to Kagura are just the cherry on top. He's the most like Naraku of any of his children and belongs on the list with his dad. They blow everyone else out of the water for heinousness.
I don't quite think the Harrow needs a pothole, TBH. The entry is self explanatory for how bad he is without it.
Likewise...Gaslight guy is vile but sadly I think he cuts a touch short.
Well I don't think big N is gonna get contested:
- Inuyasha: Naraku is a manipulative half-demon seeking the Shikon Jewel. Born out of the bandit Onigumo's pact with demons to covet the love of the priestess who guards the Jewel, Kikyo, Naraku instead uses his first moment to mortally wound Kikyo and make her think her lover Inuyasha betrayed her. When Kikyo has the Jewel burned with her body, Naraku awaits its return, cursing a family of monks to die slowly and horribly with each generation lest they kill him. In present time, Naraku becomes more active as the Jewel returns, orchestrating countless demon attacks to devastate cities and towns across the country, creating incarnations of himself to sew chaos while leading them to their deaths, corrupting a young demon slayer into killing his families and manipulating him as a puppet and even resurrecting the Band of Seven, a group of mercenaries who have killed thousand, to murder as they please to distract the heroes from his true plans. Naraku also creates incarnations of himself to sow chaos, whom he horribly mistreats and callously leads to their deaths once they cease being useful to him. A spiteful, sadistic monster, Naraku deals with his own depression and insecurity by devastating the land of Feudal Japan and seeking nothing more than to cause as much misery as possible.
ACW do me a favour when you pothole this: can you use Artifact of Doom or something for the Shikon Jewel? It's The Man Behind the Man on the current entry and that's not revealed until the last five chapters or so and kinda distracting compared to a more straightforward one imo.
The wifi here sucks
Well Louis was worth a shot, he's nasty but I agree that what he does isn't quite enough to pass the baseline. As a result, unless the 1944 villain does something really bad (which I very much doubt) I won't propose that version.
Also 43 "who have killed thousand" is missing the 's' at the end.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
My keyboard hates me today.
Hey, man you gave a fair EP, it's a solid movie and he's a vile baddie. Effort was good!
The wifi here sucks
Oh no I'm not upset, I went in unsure if he counted and wanted input from you guys. It was kind of a neat character to propose plus I enjoyed the movie quite a bit. Thank you though and yes to Hakudoshi.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hakudoshi and Curly Beard(that would be literal translation of Barbarricia.)
Goku Black
Hakudoshi
Hakudoshi
Louis
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Huh, someone already took care of Zhan Tiri.
For Hollow, the apostrophe possessive S is deliberate, as we don't do the "character, from issue" thing anymore.
Yes to Barbawhatever (we REALLY need to give Maciste its own page) and Hakudoshi.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I don't remember Inuyasha but did they seriously have a guy who mass murdered a village with wolves do a heel turn without explanation? I'm not adverse to villains redeeming themselves but there should at least either be hints they had good or they get fleshed out later on to make them more sympathetic.
But Hakudoshi
Edited by LordYAM on Oct 19th 2020 at 2:06:12 AM
Hakudoshi
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And a couple of stragglers:
- Altitude (2017): Sadie is the leader of a gang of thieves who hijack a plane in search of loot taken by her ex-boyfriend Terry when he double-crossed them after a heist. Impersonating a flight attendant to get on the plane, Sadie kills one of her fellow flight attendants and the two pilots to allow her accomplice Matthew Sharpe to fly the plane, then has him conduct a series of dives to give off the appearance of altitude trouble to air traffic control. When Terry escapes with the help of Gretchen Blair, Sadie conducts a search of the plane, with her henchmen beating or killing anyone who resists. Persuading Air Marshal Luke Byres to turn traitor, Sadie then unveils the final step of the plan: Set the plane to crash with everyone onboard, with a fake flight recorder blaming the whole thing on hydraulic failure.
- The Serpent and the Rainbow: Captain Dargent Peytraud is the leader of the Haitian Tontons Macoutes and a practitioner of Voodoo. To keep Haiti's population in line, Peytraud uses a special drug to steal people's souls and make them appear dead. The ones who don't suffocate after being Buried Alive are exhumed and turned into zombie slaves. When anthropologist Dr. Dennis Alan comes to Haiti to investigate, Peytraud brutally tortures him by hammering a nail into his genitals before haunting Alan's dreams, filling them with nightmarish visions of the walking dead and later frames him for murder to force him to leave town. Eventually, Peytraud uses his magic to control a woman in order to make her murder Alan. When Allan returns he uses the same trick on his ally to make him decapitate himself and then drugs Alan and places him inside a coffin with a tarantula. When he and Alan finally square off at the end, he tries to perform a human sacrifice on Alan's beloved Michelle by beheading her.
Showtime!
Haku
Louie (just needs that one extra thing in order to qualify fully)
Ultimate Moral Compass
Barbara and Hakudoshi
Louis
to Hakudoshi.
- Evil: Orson LeReoux is a serial killer who pretends to be possessed to cover up his crimes. Having attacked three familie,s LeRoux murdered the fathers, raped and murdered the wives, and even murdered the children. Utilizing his insanity and "possession" to escape justice, he begins stalking the heroine Kristen Bouchard, plotting to murder her four daughters.
- Women of the Otherworld
- Tyrone Winsloe is a rich "gamer" who enjoys capturing and torturing supernatural beings for experiments. Obsessed with his own twisted ideas of fun, Winsloe also runs a game where supernaturals are captured and released on his grounds so he can personally hunt them down with vicious hounds. Obsessed with the werewolf Elena, Winsloe attempts to force her to kill an innocent man, even threatening to have her gang-raped should she refuse.
- Attorney May Donovan is the secret leader of a dark cult that focuses on human sacrifice for power. Leading them to multiple murders and even having potential disloyal members killed while framing others, May even sacrifices children and binds their suffering souls for her own power while leading to attempt to sacrifice supernatural beings to enhance herself even further.
- Giles Rayes, real name Gilles de Rais, was a serial killer of children with a legacy of evil in his quest for immortality. Leading a movement for supernatural rights, Giles has innocents tortured and killed to create a virus that will turn humans supernatural with mass casualties. Seeking to enslave even Lucifer, Giles tries to capture the devil's heavily pregnant daughter and murder her and the unborn child should Lucifer not bow and assist him with spreading the virus over the world so he may rule it.
- Still/Born: The Mesopotamian demon Lamashtu is a serial predator of innocent children. Focusing on babies, Lamashtu drains their life or marks them, stalking the mothers and driving them insane with the only way to mollify her being to sacrifice another baby to her. Stalking heroine Mary and her baby son Adam after having murdered Mary's first child, Lamashtu takes and devours the children should she not be placated, sadistically taunting Mary again and again to lead to her death before finally returning for Adam.
- Vampires vs. the Bronx: The Commander, real name Vivian Tyrell, is the head of the Murnau Corporation buying up properties in the Bronx before murdering their owners. Unleashing her vampire forces to slaughter those who won't be missed in the Bronx, Vivian kills the young heroes' friend Tony and later returns to murder the children revealing she doesn't ever wish the Bronx to change because she far prefers it when nobody notices when so many innocent people vanish.
- The Mad Ghoul: Alfred Morris, experimenting with his nerve gas, turns his assistant into a ghoul that must subsist on human hearts to remain alive. Allowing him to perform a series of murders, including a journalist who was a potential problem, Morris centers in on his assistant's former fiance, obsessed with forcing her to be his so much that he attempts to have her lover murdered by his ghoul before planning to eliminate the latter.
- Inuyasha: Hakudoshi, Naraku's incarnation born of a split from the Infant, is the most like his father in cruelty and sadism. Murdering multiple yokai to examine their minds for the secrets of the netherworld and forcing Kagura to risk her life to test the gates, Hakudoshi eventually unleashes swarms of demon rats to devour entire villages to lure out Kikyo and plans to unleash them all over Japan should she not give herself up, showing sadistic glee in the almost unparalleled amounts of bloodshed caused. Later murdering Yokai for his own experiments to create the living armor Moryomaru, Hakudoshi even plans to backstab Naraku with no loyalty to anyone or anything but himself.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 19th 2020 at 7:25:02 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Those'll all go next week. I've got some stuff of my own to take care of today.
Anyone heard from Username lately?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts