During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Finally have a new ep
Wahst the work?
Immortals After Dark is paranormal romance series by kresly cole.
Every five hundred years, the Lore, a varied group of mythical Immortals, make their alliances and go to war in the Accession. Each faction makes its own ties, but they are roughly split into the good Vertas and the evil Pravus (though both are very violent and no faction can claim to be uniformly "good" or "evil"). As one book describes it, the Accession is a series of events that, "about a decade into it, ... [begin] to come into play, as if fate was seeding future deadly conflicts, involving all the players at a startling rate. Like windmill vanes on a rusted spoke, it began creaking, creeping to life, only to gain momentum and soar with speed every five hundred years."
Humans within the series have mistaken this for an Apocalypse type battle, but the Lore itself rather looks forward to Accessions as they shake the monotony of immortal life, cull the population of Immortals, realign the factions, and tend to bring mates together.
Today we discuss book nine. Pleasure of a Dark Prince: Garreth MacRieve, the prince of the Lykae clan, is inexorably drawn to Lucia the Huntress, a Valkyrie who never misses her shot. From the shadows, Garreth has long watched over Lucia. Now, the only way to keep the proud huntress safe from harm is to convince her to accept him as her guardian.
Who is Crom Cruach the Bloody Broken One?
A vile ugly god whose body is deformed and adorned with pieces of his victims. Crom Cruach is the devil and the God of cannibalism and Human Sacrifice.
Crom is a monstrous God who has for thousands of years sputtered histhe followers into sacrificing people to feed his depravties.
A thousand years ago, Crom in the veil of a handsome young man made contact with a 16 year old valkyrie named Lucia in Valhalla. He charmed her with promises of lavish gifts and treats. Her 12 year old sister regin felt something was wrong and tried to convince her not to got to Jim but she was entranced and went. He then revelaed after the marriage, his true form of a cloven monster and raped her. For months, she was forced to endure his torment. His gifts (Using dark spells torment her) and treats (forcing her to consume human flesh and blood). She eventually escaped to the Cliffside and three Herald off, figuring death would be preferable. Her sister reign saver her and took her to the goddess Skathi who gifted her with powers. Regin and Lucia would then seal crom away but every five hundred years he'd rise again.
Anyway in the present crom is reawaking due to sacrifices committed by his followers cromites. Crom has the power to infect people with a mad need to kill the ones they love. Now he intends to unleash it on the entire world kickstating the apocalypse. Watching as mothers kill their children, lovers stab each in the back, siblings turn in each other. The entire of humanity will drown in cannibalism and Human Sacrifice in his name.
Anyway lucia and her werewolf boyfriend gareth seek and find a dieurmot which is an artefact with the power to kill a god. They find his lair which is littered with victims even cchildren. And he awakens, he takes over Gareth's mind and tried to force him to kill lucia. Yes able to resist and instead stabs himself.
"Lousha, doona leave me," Garreth rasped, his breaths ragged. He reverted to Gaelic, uttering anguished words. So sorry... love you... joining you. His voice wretched, he pleaded for her to come back to him. "I'm beggin' you, lass."
Tears ran from her eyes as she choked out the words, "Garreth, it's not real. Not real."
Anyway cruach states that he's going to rape ans kill lucia and send his followers to retrieve her only for gareth to use his last bit of rage to stab in the throat, knocking him off balance. This frees lucia who takes our his guards before using diuermot to ring the arrow through his chest. Killing the basatrd for good.
Fuck no
'Otger mitigating factors?
Is that a joke.
Heibous standard ?
Worst in serie bar none. Their alot of nasty villains here. Vampire king Demestriu tortured the lyjae king for 150 years and intends to war with the clans, his nephew Lothaire, enemy of the old has the valkyrie queen chained and dropped in the ocean where she's now stuck totally conscious. Groot plans to rape the vessel to produce a child to allow him to subdue the planet. The order kidnap immortals to torture them in horrific ways. A few of these will be epd later but that's for later.
Crom crunch though outclassed all these guys. Not only does he have an enormous body count. The level of torture , Cannibalsim and Human Sacrifice is unprecedented. His mo is horrfic. What he pulls on lucia and gareth is fucked up. Hes the most powerful villain in the series and he goes all out, intending the end of humanity itself.
Conclsuons ?
One of the most evil villains in Urban Fantasy ever.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Goku Black
Okay you what I'm changing to no on doom. The fact he turns from today normal guy to psycho who wants to end humanity for no reasons after being transformed. Is not the best test for agency. It seems like he just up and turns evil for no reason after being transformed. Isn't that a little bit suspicious agency wise.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Bludgeon, jestor
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Drackulon.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 26th 2020 at 5:57:39 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Crom Cruach the Bloody Broken One, I've been looking forward to him.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Crom Cruach.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Crom Cruach the Bloody Broken One. ...That is a mouthful.
Goku Black
All lore immortals have a title with their name. Theirs the cool ones like omort the deathless and Kaderin the cold hearted, the weird ones like Groot the metallurgist or the dumb ones like Carrow the incarcerated or Emma the timid.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 26th 2020 at 6:08:25 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
"Okay you what I'm changing to no on doom. The fact he turns from today normal guy to psycho who wants to end humanity for no reasons after being transformed. Is not the best test for agency. It seems like he just up and turns evil for no reason after being transformed. Isn't that a little bit suspicious agency wise"
The thing that Transforms him is the same stuff that gave the fantastic four there powers, and none of them turned evil.
The stuff about him wanting to end humanity for no reason...is simply not true. He explicitly says in the film how he Dosent want humans to ruin "his" world.
And he was already a bit egocentric before, just not a full blown supervillain. So it's not like he was some Nice Guy who instantly became Darkseid.
to Crom
Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 26th 2020 at 4:10:40 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Not if all of Fantastic Four got their powers the same way. And since the movie didn't address that or haven't showed anything actually warping Doom's mind, it is purely Alternative Character Interpretation.
Yes to... Mir's guy, not typing that name out ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
The Draftsman of Doom
Goku Black
And a great one for the quotes page
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cruach.
Still keep my yes on Doom, bad writing aside.
Tyk, you thinking of Red Zone Cuba?
Edited by ACW on Jan 26th 2020 at 9:20:14 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I get the generic argument. But how can Doom have agency issues. When the same thing happened to the main four and they are still good guys.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's the name.
to Jestor and Crom
Goku Black
So uh What do you think on my quote suggestion ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the quote.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
the quote
So, what was the decision about the images that i proposed?
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Keeping my yes to Doom. Not convinced by the arguments against him, especially when characters with less personality than him went up. Especially when his motive and personality are ultimately both clear, in spite of the... Dubious writing.
The agency argument just... Came out of nowhere. There's no evidence of Doom having an impaired moral agency as far as I can see.
Sure to the quote that said.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 26th 2020 at 4:49:32 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Showtime!
to Crom Cruach and the quote
to Doom. I hate that someone so shittily written is getting up, but that's not a disqualified per se
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
the quote.
Yes to Bludegon, Mion, and Crom Cruach. Keeping my yes to Fan4stic!Doom. Abstaining on Jestor and Drakulon.
Edited by falcontalons on Jan 26th 2020 at 7:59:45 AM
Lizzid people!
Meh, I'll give a yes to Doom as well. Yes to Bludgeon.
Wild Child
Crom Cruach.
It's the fault of the movie's writing more than anything, but I'm saying "no" to 2015!Doom. No attempt is made to establish any kind of coherent motive for his apocalyptic plan—if a character can be DQ'd for degenerating into a GDV, I'd argue this is as close a case as any.
Um...I don't think I entirely agree with this. If the characterization is there, and the motivation is there, I'm not sure what the problem is. Yes, I'm aware that Fant4stic is a horrible movie with shitty writing—everyone in this forum has beat that message into my skull. But we've had a CM go up before because of shitty writing/botched scenes—namely that dude from Red Cobra Zero, or whatever that movie is. This isn't much different from Leilah, who spends all of Bright trying to kill her sister, then has a really moving, emotional scene next to her. And then literally a minute later? She goes all like "Gimme my MacGuffin or I'm gonna kill my sister I was just bonding over."
I'm not saying this is the same situation—it clearly isn't—but I'm saying I don't agree with the whole "Doctor Doom started off somewhat compelling, but then devolved into MCU!Malekith. Therefore, he doesn't count." I don't really understand that logic, especially when we have villains who aren't a Generic Doomsday Villain, but they start off as a Flat Character and don't get any shred of development. :/
I'm not saying yes or no to Fant4stic!Doom. This is one of those situations where I'm gonna have to watch the film for myself and give a more thought-out analysis on the guy. And I've no intention of doing that shit. Staring at condensation on my window is more worthy of my time.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.