During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Why wick to a fanfic from the canon version's MB entry?
RIP KissAnime.
Self-Declared King of Everything
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe the fanfic version has an MB entry, or is getting one?
I thought sharks were my friends.
But that has zero impact on the source material.
RIP KissAnime.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Vladimir. As I discussed with xie in PM's, I have no personal issues with this sort of Straw Character going up. If anyrhing it makes upvotes easier because it's less likely for such a character to get redeeming qualities.
A 20th Century Boy
@Delphine He meant wicking the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Yoshikage Kira page to the canon version's MB entry since it was wicked to the fanfic version's CM entry.
So I’m not quite sure how this is so unclear but the canon version has a character page. I’m saying I’ll wick the canon character’s MB entry. Like on CM, I link the character’s name to their page if it exists. Why is this so muddling?
The Draftsman of Doom
Think of it as potholing Kilgrave's name as [[Characters/MCUKilgrave Kevin "Kilgrave" Thompson]] as opposed to [[ItsAllAboutMe Kevin "Kilgrave" Thompson]] on his canon entry.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 21st 2020 at 9:31:19 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Ok, it seems that enough people believe that the controversey surrounding NDCR is a moot point when deciding if Kryuchkov qualifies or not.
Here's his writeup then:
- New Deal Coalition Retained: Vladimir Kryuchkov is the head of the KGB and the instigator of the 1985 coup against the reformist government of Alexander Yakovlev when the latter tried to reform the USSR away from Focoist ideology. Upon taking power, Kryuchkov helps other hardliners across the Warsaw Pact launch massive purges against their political opponents. In response to the failing Soviet economy, Kryuchkov takes advantage of border skirmishes carried out by West German soldiers against East German soldiers in retaliation for atrocities carried out against East German refugees as a means to kickstart World War III. As the war progresses, Kryuchkov uses increasingly brutal tactics to achieve victory such as using chemical weapons on cities such as Prague and Athens, leading to insurmountable loss of life and massive cultural damage. When an uprising in occupied West Germany and ethnic uprisings in the Soviet Union helps to turn the tide of the war in NATO's favor, Kryuchkov and the KGB resort to even more brutal tactics such as launching a massive purge of moderates across the Warsaw pact, wiping out entire villages in response to dissent, breaking out serial killers such as Andrei Chikatilo from prisons to terrorize their subjects into submission and launching a poison gas attack on the East Coast to weaken the US. At the end of the war, with the fall of Moscow, Kryuchkov orders a nuclear strike at the US and other key NATO targets. This promots the surviving moderates to launch a coup against Kryuchkov, resulting in his overthrow and the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Edited by xie323 on Jan 21st 2020 at 6:33:45 AM
The wifi here sucks
That's too long. I cut it down to 189 words, how does this look
- Vladimir Kryuchkov is the head of the KGB and the instigator of the 1985 coup against the reformist government of Alexander Yakovlev when the latter tried to reform the USSR away from Focoist ideology. Upon taking power, Kryuchkov helps other hardliners across the Warsaw Pact launch massive purges against their political opponents. In response to the failing Soviet economy, Kryuchkov takes advantage of border skirmishes between West and East Germany as a means to kickstart World War III. As the war progresses, Kryuchkov uses increasingly brutal tactics to achieve victory such as using chemical weapons, leading to insurmountable loss of life and massive cultural damage. When the war starts turning in NATO's favor, Kryuchkov and the KGB resort to even more brutal tactics such as launching a massive purge of moderates across the Warsaw pact, wiping out entire villages, breaking out serial killers from prisons to terrorize their subjects into submission and launching a poison gas attack on the East Coast to weaken the US. At the end of the war, with the fall of Moscow, Kryuchkov orders a nuclear strike at the US and other key NATO targets.
An Eldritch Troper
Dudes, AlternateHistory.com has enough keepers for a subpage. (15 including the latest entry).
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
The Draftsman of Doom
I'd be open to that.
Feels good, don't it?
After looking at the actual entries there, John F. Kennedy is a listed entry. Now I'm especially confused why the recent story is controversial when we have listed characters like that.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Could have sworn we already discussed this and decided not to on the basis of not wanting pages based on just being works from the same site.
Vladimir.
Here are the quotes once proposed by Elfen and Delphine and another one from Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba. Thoughts?
Enmu: Yes. *sigh* I am in a dream! Because... I will die by your own hand. I adored hearing the other demons' death cries. They thrilled me. I revel in the misery and suffering of others. I relive it in my dreams each night. Thank you for leaving me for last.
Muzan: ... (Enmu gasps with pain) I like you. I will give you my blood in abundance. You may yet die because you cannot take the volume of this transfusion. But if you accommodate it... you will gain much greater strength.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jan 22nd 2020 at 4:47:11 AM
No to Vera
For those interested in Warcraft, the Nya'lotha raid released today and it may be worth some discussion on Azshara in two weeks. PM me if you want details.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Vex and Vladimir Kyuchkov.
Regarding Kyuchkov, I don't think the story's political bias affects him as a candidate. His evil goes far beyond just being a Communist leader.
The wifi here sucks
I did research on girahim and I'm keeping my no. The EP exaggerated the stuff he did throughout the game, his "ravaging all he sees" amounts to monsters standing there so Link can kill them, very few times are the friendly NPCs really threatened by his forces and even then it's mostly the game saying that they're dangerous without showing us and the few things we do see aren't really that nasty, especially compared all of the stuff that Veran does that we actually see. Really the only truly nasty thing he does is send his monsters to die while fighting Link but they're all evil monsters which makes that scene loose a lot of its impact. While him summoning Demise is nasty, I feel like there comes a time when what villain attempts to do is out paced by what another villain actually does. I'd love for Girahim to go up since I love him as a villain but I can't give him a yes in good conscience.
Edited by papyru30 on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:43:26 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lizzid people!
I'll abstain on Girahim for now. At least until Lighty makes his case.
Going to abstain on Vera, and ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Girahim considering Papyru's arguments. Vladimir, sure the work is Overshadowed by Controversy, but it isn't shlock so that makes it okay in my book
Today is my birthday
—signature not found—
Yeah, gonna echo Papyru's sentiments: Ghirahim is as bog standard as Zelda villains go. Like, compared to the visceral, downright awful crimes of guys like Ganondorf, Veran, Majora, and Zant, Ghirahim... allows a bunch of borderline mindless monster goons to die, hurts Zelda with a painful ritual, and threatens Link. Sure, him reviving Demise would mean that the world is doomed but... compared to other omnicidal villains? Yuga still traps people in paintings with the victims being aware and helpless, then you have Majora ruining a ton of people's lives as well as trying to destroy entire environments. Ghirahim doesn't have stuff like that going for him, he's just a sadistic, slightly worse than average goon and his treatment of his men isn't played for horror, it's just an excuse for the player to show off all the skills they've picked up against a big-ass enemy army. And as such, I seriously have to object to his inclusion.
Similarly, I'm not feeling Demise either. He just lacks that "Oomph" factor that other Zelda villains have, like onscreen atrocities and such. Unlike Ghirahim I'll be okay with him going up, but I can't say I'm real impressed with him either.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:21:27 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Happy Birthday
Gihrahim
Still Demise
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 21st 2020 at 1:21:04 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Happy birthday, King of Nightmares!
I counted about ten for Vex and none against. I'll do a write-up/summary this week; can't say when precisely as it's a busy one!
The Lord Of Walruses
to Aldezhor, Avatar Guy, and Vex
Abstain on Vera
@luka I think the quotes are good, The Maze Misters one in particular.
I have no idea what I am doing
Yes to Vladmir.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread