During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
the Kids if it's just that they lost there Emotions as opposed to only being able to do Evil stuff.
The astrology thing is weird as hell though.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Showtime!
Abstaining on the kids because it sounds like their condition is presented as a reason in universe
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Technically, being a sociopath doesn't mean you have to be bad. There are a lot of moral sociopaths out there. That being said, it does matter how the movie presents it.
Debbie sounds like the worst. Do Curtis and Steven explicitly not care for her or each other?
jjj
Goku Black
Okay so Moral Socioapthy is a thing.
That said it depends how it's played In-Universe.
So stellavore is it played as a genuine agency breaking excuse ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to the trio
Well, Joyce explains that the eclipse affects the way they treat people. But does it, really? Yes, they'll kill as they please, but they can also be pleasant when it suits them. If you really want to argue about their agency, then you could make the same argument about "normal" sociopathy. The brains of psychopaths/sociopaths are wired differently than ours, but countless CMs probably have that condition.
@bobg: There's nothing to say they don't, but there's nothing to say they do. Not enough onscreen interaction, though they are arrested together.
Edited by Stellarvore on Oct 10th 2019 at 3:37:08 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to Jack Slash- er, Jack Angel.
Not completely certain about the kids.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
he's got a point there.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Abstaining on the kids.
RIP KissAnime.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ Stellarvore That's hardly something we can deny. However, here? It's clearly stated that that astromony stuff will affect whoever is born this day.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Hey guys, I just saw the season 1 finale of Meta Runner. The series is amazing, and the season finale episode was freaking intense. PM me if you want to know if anybody counts.
If the film presents their disorder as being owed to astrology, then no. Whether or not the writers gets how psychopathy works isn't relevant if they've made a world in which these kids are sociopaths because of when they were born.
This sounds like when Caine got relitigated and put up (which I disagreed with) because the film had a gorilla act violent after being experimented on with the invisibility serum as though a gorilla being an aggressive animal somehow proved he had agency. If the film plays it as an impairment, we can't ignore that and this seems like reaching to get a candidate up.
Lord of Hell
If the film treats it as the reason they're like this, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the kids
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Frankly, the way I'm seeing it the Film INTENDED to make it so the Saturn thing is why there like this...But the Film only states that They lost their emotions, as opposed to saying it made them Want to kill people.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Goku Black
Whelp I'll just abstain.
Though uh question for someone I want to ep later ?
Say we had a species that frowned upon over use of strong emotions since it drove them unbalanced mentally. Now they are actually usually peaceful if valuing knowledge over emotions. But the Big Bad is an expectation being an evil scum bag willing to do anything to get to the top even killing his own daughter and starting a literal hate group targeted at his own species to help him take over since they kicked him out.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Go for it. Sounds like a easy keeper.
Abstain on the kids. Though that explanation for their sociopathy has to be the weirdest thing I've read all day.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Go for it Mir.
43, who's this Caine?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Who's that?
Edited by ACW on Oct 10th 2019 at 5:46:31 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Alright it's been years since I read Seraphina though. So maybe a bit (It was actually named one of the greatest fantasy books of the 21st century. That's high praise).
Also got a new profile pic for the horror mood.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 10th 2019 at 2:47:03 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Yeah, I'm leaning towards for the trio of kids. It's hard to gloss over the solar eclipse thing given it was explicitly stated that caused their sociopathy.
Just dropping by, since it has been two weeks since the release of the final Expansion Pack for Hitman 2. As before, no new candidates because none of the targets comes even close to heinous standard of Hitman.
- The three targets in the story mission, are running an Island Resort for the rich while secretly helping wealthy criminals by providing them with new identities. Two of them conspire against the third and consider murdering him. One of the two conspirators also plans to turn on the other.
- The targets in the side mission are two scam artists who running a company that sells what they are calling “de-mineralized salt water” (aka tap water with a fancy name) as a miracle cure.
On the bright side, IOI finally has announced another Elusive Target for the game and the first one is going to be a Serial Killer. So there may be an EP in the foreseeable future. Only time will tell.
Sebastian Caine from Hollow Man... Beast reproposed him some time ago.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, right, him. It's just this thread goes through SO many candidates, just saying a last name usually isn't enough ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Forget the heinous standard of Hitman, I don't think they exceed the BASELINE.
Edited by ACW on Oct 10th 2019 at 6:13:34 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
I mean, gorillas are known for being aggressive, so the argument that the formula made it more savage doesn't really work.
Going with a no on the Kids. Sounds more like you're glossing over the astrological circumstances. From the way you describe it, sounds as though their moral agency is severely impaired.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 10th 2019 at 1:13:33 AM