During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I don't like this quote on Complete Monster
To me, it comes off more as Straw Nihilist than Complete Monster
—signature not found—
Goku Black
Uh me neither. Could we remove it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agreed on removing it.
I knew this day was coming sooner or later. But yeah, cut Bryce. Yes, he was a rapist, which makes his cut VERY jarring, but he did felt genuine remorse for his actions, attempted to atone for what he did, genuinely loved his mother, was very disgusted with Monty raping Tyler, and has a genuine relationship with Ani. Like Beast said, Bryce was ultimately NOT redeemed, as Alex killed him due to the fact that Bryce will never change due to his nature. Personally i’m not against humanizing a CM, especially if done right, but I am EXTREMELY against humanizing a RAPIST CM. And that’s a shame too, because Bryce’s actor gave a great performance throughout the series, and believe it or not, I actually would’ve felt bad for Bryce if he WASN’T a rapist. Regardless, what’s done is done, and it can’t be undone. And with that, I will officially declare ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Bryce.
As for Monty, he doesn’t count either. While he was a massive hate sink, and he raped Tyler, which resulted in Monty being arrested and killed in prison, may no one mourn the son of a bitch, he DOES have a Freudian excuse in the form of his abusive father, and it’s revealed that he’s secretly gay, and had genuinely loved Winston, who may end up becoming a antagonist in season 4 out of revenge for Monty’s death. So yeah, unless Season 4 has a irredeemable character do something truly vile, no one keeps in 13 Reasons Why.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 6th 2019 at 12:41:06 PM
Here is quick EP from me
What's the work?
Mortal Kombat: Legacy is an official web series (each episode 7-15 minutes length), founded by Warner Digital and released on Machinima YouTube channel (it's gone now apparently, as I couldn't find a single video about it in Machinima itself and only some unofficial personal channels hold episodes now, or on one of Warner Brothers Youtube channels), that retells the premise of Mortal Kombat, featuring more edgy and "dark" take on the franchise. First season (consisted of 9 episodes) introduce us to majority of characters, like Jax, Sonya Blade, Raiden, Sub-Zero, Kitana and ec. Second season (consisted of 10 episodes) focuses on the tournament itself. The web series was created from official web short Mortal Kombat: Rebirth, which you can watch here:
as it features more "realistic" take on the franchise (although Legacy is unconnected to it plot wise and rebirth was sorta simply "concept art" for the series).
Series appears to be cancelled after 2 seasons with a "cliffhanger" ending, which doesn't resolve anything, as season 2 ended in 2013 and although season 3 was supposed to be released in 2016, it didn't and there was no news about it to this day from developers.
I've got 2 candidates from this web series. First off the one, I feel confident about, despite him appearing in person in only 2 episodes, which you can watch here:
- Shao Kahn.
Who is Shao Kahn?
A ruler of the Outworld, Shao Kahn introduced invading the realm of Edenia, after their warriors lost 10 Mortal Kombat tournaments. Bringing death and destruction to the whole realm, Shao Kahn has his Tarkatan warriors slaughter every innocent they came across. After all resistance was exterminated and Shao Kahn has complete control of Edenia, he ordered his army to seek Edenia's ruler, King Jerrod and kill him. As they invade Jerrod's castle, as Jerrod and his wife Sindel try to escape with their daughter Kitana, Kahn has Barak kill Jerrod, before coldly stating to his shocked wife that it was simply an impostor and King has already escaped. Taking Sindel, as his own wife, Kahn started to develop genuine feelings for her, only for her to reject him. Fearing that Sindel might influence Kitana to try to kill him in the future, Shao Kahn has his sorcerer Shang Tsung create clone of Kitana from Tarkatan blood, Mileena. Sindel (upon seeing Mileena) takes her own life, to merge her spirit with Kitana, to save her from being completely corrupted by Shao Kahn. Shao Kahn (who is shown to be totally indifferent at Sindel's death) raised both Kitana and Mileena, manipulating them both to be completely loyal to him (at one point observing with a smile how Mileena, who was shocked to see her Tarkatan teeth and crying, killed his own soldier) and trained them to be his own personal assassins. Ordering them to hunt down and kill all former King Jerrod's impersonators and real Jerrod himself, Shao Kahn was pleased when two returned to him, completing the task, not being aware that the real Jerrod managed to plant a doubt in Kitana (about Shao Kahn being her father), before his death. After this Shao Kahn plans to take over the Earthrealm the same way he took over Edenia and orders his daughters to participate in Mortal Kombat tournament.
After this, Shao Kahn was mentioned only few times in Season 2, once it was revealed in episode about Kenshi here:
that Shao Kahn created Sento sword, which was capable of killing any opponent and hidden it in the mountain cave, where Ermac has guarded it, claiming the soul of anyone who loses a fight with him, trying to take the sword. It is shown and told that Ermac claimed the souls and killed thousands of warriors, adding them to Shao Kahn's bodycount, as he was the reason they went there to die.
Heinousness?
Worst in the series, invaded realms, caused chaos, death and destruction all around it, killing countless innocents and plans to do this again with the Earthrealm. Also, him creating Sento sword and having Ermac guarding it did add the bodycount of many warriors, who tried to claim it.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. He said to have a feeling for Sindel, but he didn't react at all at her taking his own life, being totally indifferent afterwards and more focused on manipulating his adopted daughters to be completely loyal to him. Said daughters, which he uses as his tools and assassins, never showing to have any genuine care for them.
Conclusion?
I will say Yes.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Sep 6th 2019 at 10:53:12 PM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Easy yay to Shao Kahn.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm not clicking that link. There's only thing it could possibly be, and I'm not falling for it.
Well it is related to Shao Khan’s name, but you don’t have to click the link if you don’t want to.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Huh. Thought that version of Shao Kahn already was approved. Unless I'm mistaking it for that other Mortal Kombat series. Anyway, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for him.
Also, got my write-ups done.
- Utopia 58:
- LE905, also known as Ellie, is actually the Father, the person behind Isonomia's horrific state of condition. After the previous Father died, Ellie took up his mantle, keeping herself disguised so that the country's culture and ideology would survive, and the White Army would be able to hunt down Zionites and other scapegoats Ellie created for the country. Posing as an innocent civilian, Ellie befriended Kay and several other rebels who defected, all so she could gain their trust and build up their hope, only to crush it later on. While working alongside the rebels, she secretly led the White Army to them, thus causing the deaths of many rebels along with soldiers from the White Army—many of whom she personally killed. After faking her death, Ellie allows EQL61 and his soldiers kill off the rest of Kay's allies, before Kay himself is captured. While Kay's imprisoned, Ellie visits Kay in person and reveals who she truly is, all so she can gloat about how everything he did was futile, and that she'll be free to continue leading Isonomia with no one left to stop her.
- The aforementioned EQL61, also known as the White General, is a prominent member within the Isonomian White Army renowned for slaughtering hundreds of thousands, as well as personally torturing Kay for eight years in a reeducation camp. In his debut appearance, EQL61 buries several Zionite prisoners up to their necks in sand, and watches as thousands of Isonomians stone them all to death. After learning that his wife, Ellie, was "stolen" by Kay, EQL61 crucifies hundreds of innocent, men, women, and children, leaving a note on all of their bodies for Kay to return Ellie back to him, or else he'll kill more innocents. When EQL61 learns of Kay's location, he and his battalion of soldiers hunt down Kay and his rebels, where they massacre most of them with no hesitation. Once EQL61 finally captures Kay, he keeps him alive just to torture him in his prison cell, before watching as he and his remaining allies are publicly executed several days later.
Ellie's entire entry can be spoilered out on the YMMV page.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Shao Kahn.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's THIS Shao you're thinking of.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Malebolgia, Aureolus Lorenzo Belli and Shao Kahn.
Cut Bryce.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Ah, right, that version. My bad.
About Bryce
M humanized a child killer and it's considered one of the best movies ever, so why would Bryce be different.
It is the fact that it retcons his earlier characterization, and a child killer while awful isn't necessarily the same thing as a rapist.
I know it's not the popular opinion, but I think Bryce could've been handled a lot worse
The wifi here sucks
I thought that we already cut that quote. I vote cut
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Gentle Laborer
Same... Weird, is this what they call Mandela Effect? Anyway, cut it.
Goku Black
Interesting one for you guys.
Whats the work?
The Good Demon by Jimmy Cajoleas is a 2018 horror book
It wasn’t technically an exorcism, what they did to Clare. When the reverend and his son ripped her demon from her, they called it a “deliverance.” But they didn’t understand that Clare and her demon—known simply as Her—were like sisters. She comforted Clare, made her feel brave, helped to ease her loneliness. They were each other’s Only.
Now, Clare’s only comforts are the three clues that She left behind: Be nice to him June 20 Remember the stories
Clare will do anything to get Her back, even if it means teaming up with the reverend’s son and scouring every inch of her small, Southern town for answers. But if she sacrifices everything to bring back her demon, what will be left of Clare?
So whose the villain?
Gasper is a demonic being and Satanic Archetype older than humanity himself who acts as a dealmaker. The town's cult being given power from him in return for sacrifices. Gasper has a sick MO. He controls thousands of demons (The ones who predate existence like him who despise the light of creation) who grant these boons. One of these is Clare's demon, she's sent to enchant children and befriend them and then come to him to sign themselves to him in the belief that they'll be together with there friend for eternity. It's a lie. He binds them and forced these demons to inhabit them putting them in awful pain, they will the constantly self mutilate over and over again with each skin strip being used for spells. There bodies just give out after months maybe years in the case of Kevin Hendricks. When Clare's cousin clea , tried to save him twenty years ago , Gasper murdered her . Hes done this for hundreds of years.
Anyway so the demon went to clara but something changed. She grew to genuinely love her and be friends with her and she refused to just have her be sacrificed so she let herself be exorcised even though existence outside of a host is painful as she truly cared about her that much to refuse to do that to her.
Now in the present, Gasper and said demon make a deal, they need a new host but in Gasper's case they apparently can't use clara again plus her demon refusing to hurt her. So they make a deal with each other for another victim shall we say. So Gasper seduces Clare with the promise of reuniting with her friend if she can give him the preachers kid as his new host. So as he raises the knife to flay open his skin and begin to release the legion of demons into him when Clare and said demon stab him in the back and save said kid. You see Clare convinced her to help so well he was raising the knife. They grabbed it and stabbed him and freed him. It's not enough to totally destroy him but with the help of cleas spirit and Hendricks mother they vanquish him for good. Realising the spirits of the hundreds of kids who had been trapped in his house so they can rest in peace. Clares demon agrees later to leave her off her own volition as she wants a normalsih life.
Look I won't lie to you. We don't learn what the hell Gasper is totally other then he's a demonic thing.
The book implies demons are bad yet none are bad as this guy and hes in charge with even clares demon considering him monsterous.
And yeah as far as agency goes, Clares demon isn't a good guy but she truly cares about her and loves her enough to put her needs first and in the end makes a sorta turn to good leaving with clea.
So yes I do believe he's a standout even among his kind.
Otyer mitigating factors
Nope. He only let Clare get said demon back because he'd lose a host if he didn't make a deal with her. Pure pragmatic villainy. He also makes that rather clear during there conversation.
Heinous standard
Child mutilater and serial killer over centuries who binds there spirits to him. Pass.
Up to you.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 6th 2019 at 1:30:47 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gasper
Gasper. Replace that G with a C, and he would have the same name as a certain friendly ghost.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 6th 2019 at 1:36:10 AM
"The Juice is Loose."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Gasper and Shao Khan.
Also, nobody counts in Hero Mask season 2. The villains are either well-intentioned or have a loved one.
And before you ask, Steven Martland and Grimm are going NOWHERE. They’re still keeps.
"No running in the halls!"
Oh, so a definite cut then.
Also, holy crap, 13 Reasons seems like a gigantic dumpster fire.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts