During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@G-Editor: I'd say just leave it alone.
Edited by falcontalons on Jun 9th 2019 at 4:17:41 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Skeletor, Ki-woo and Marco
Goku Black
Anyway I finally read book 8 of InCryptid 'That aint witchcraft''
I have no idea.....
It's badguy the crossroads parasite is heinous enough and perhaps the worst badguy in the series. It feeds off energy and has been more or less sucking the life out of the planet for five centuries. Even intentionally killing and purging magic users to allow tgis to contuie.
On the other hand it's also an Eldtrich Abomination which they never explain what the fuck it is. I mean it has a personilty.
Before you ask. Bobby still counts. They use time travel to kill it back when it's weak but the spirit of the earth decided to let all bargains stand to avoid time exploding from the amount of paradoxes if it doesn't exist. So Bobby's still occurs as the timeline is still normal.
Edited by miraculous on Jun 9th 2019 at 4:46:42 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
@miraculous: I think you should do an EP some time, just to make sure. It sounds like it could count; I think we have villains up whom we're not entirely sure what they are(Regus Patoff from the Consultant comes to mind).
Edited by falcontalons on Jun 9th 2019 at 4:47:43 AM
Goku Black
Sure I'll put it down on my list and maybe ep later.
I have a few I'll do before that though.
Anyway. Everbody else obviously stays. Resources and uniqueness and all that.
Also thank God for mother earth ensuring everything those guys did actually does occur so we don't need to touch there entries to say it happned beofr a contuoty reboot. Plus it would have sucked if Bobby's final defeat didnt go to Rose because his deal just never happened. That wpuld have been kinda unsatisfying.
Edited by miraculous on Jun 9th 2019 at 4:59:50 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Marco draft:
- The Expanse, Marco Inaros, leader of the Free Navy. When he was younger, Marco tricked his girlfriend Naomi into helping him sabotage ships' magnetic bottles, allowing him to destroy any ship he wants without any sign of foul play. When Naomi protested this, Marco forbade her from seeing their son Filip. When Naomi left him, Marco raised Filip to believe that Naomi was a weak-willed coward who abandoned him out of spite. Marco uses Filip to help carry out an asteroid bombardment of Earth that kills 15 billion people. While Marco claims to be fighting for his fellow Belters, he nearly destroys a large chunk of Tycho Station just to kill Holden for dating Naomi, and cripples Ceres Station through looting just to slow down his enemies. Marco justifies his crimes against the Belters by claiming that they weren't "true Belters", but it quickly becomes apparent that Marco defines true Belters as only those who are personally loyal to him.
Yes to Marco Inaros.
Gentle Laborer
My last South Korean candidate, for now.
What is the work? Door Lock, aka Paranoia Fuel: The Movie, is a 2018 thriller film. Cho Kyung-min is a lonely woman who lives by herself in an "officetel"; a building with both residential and commercial units, with her only friend being a co-worker named Oh Hyo-joo. Kyung-min's life is overall pretty quiet and peaceful... until she notices signs of a stranger trying to break into her home. Things only go downhill from there.
Who is he? Han Dong Hoon is a seemingly mild-mannered guard who works at the officetel. Much like Kyung-min, Han also prefers to keep to himself, but unfortunately the man is also a complete homicidal maniac and a nasty example of a Stalker with a Crush who easily obsesses over women, becoming violent when they reject his romantic advances. Having previously worked at a hotel for tourists, Han was transferred to the officetel after a woman had "committed suicide" before the hotel closed down. For eight years, Han was responsible for multiple mysterious disappearances in the area. Setting his eyes on Kyung-min's neighbor, Han kidnaps her and gives her a Fate Worse than Death by amputating both of her legs, keeping her alive but barely conscious in a bed. Growing bored of her, Han finds a replacement for her in the form of Kyung-min; Han disposes of the woman by killing her, dismembering her body and dumping her in a garbage can like she meant nothing to him. Han regularly invades Kyung's home in the middle of the night and sedates her with chloroform while she is asleep, giving him a chance to use her shower and sleep beside her, totally naked.
After murdering Kyung-min's boss when he brings her safely to her home, Han amputates the leg of her best friend while she is still alive, recording the act and making it look like live footage with the intent of formulating a sadistic Hope Spot for Kyung-min to try and fail to save her friend. Shortly after killing another stalker who had been harassing Kyung-min, Han kidnaps her and keeps her hostage in the abandoned hotel where he used to work at, revealing that he's doing all these things to her because he doesn't need a "reason to like someone". Deciding to play a game with his newest victim, Han tells her that if she thinks he's "crazy or a pervert", he will allow her to escape, but if he catches her again: "Then i think i'll have to cut your arms and legs". Kyung-min accepts his offer and runs away, only for Han to kill the police detective who had arrived to save her, mocking Kyung-min for having "too many men around you". Han manages to subdue her and tries to remove her arm as punishment, Kyung-min fights back and pushes him towards a nail, which penetrates the back of his neck and kills him instantly.
Freudian Excuse? Nope. It's impossible for Han to genuinely love women, he sees his victims as nothing more than disposable objects. The only thing remotely "positive" about him is that he removes a stray cat from his house by returning him to the streets, instead of killing the animal.
Heinous? Han looked like a generic Yandere at first but his modus operandi is pretty fucking disturbing. Having your legs or arms amputated while you're still alive simply because a Serial Killer "likes" you? That's pure Nightmare Fuel.
Conclusion? I'd say
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 9th 2020 at 2:30:19 PM
Yes to Han.
Goku Black
Ham
to Han Dong Hoon.
I would like to bring up these two entries, from the The Fly franchise:
- Return of the Fly: Alan Hines (real name Ronald Holmes) is an industrial spy who betrays Philippe to steal the teleporter's plans for himself and murders a British agent who tries to stop him. Once he discovers that the teleporter can mix and match living things, he knocks out Philippe in a fight, places the unconscious Philippe in the teleporter and adds a fly, knowing Philippe will come out a monster.
- The Fly II: Dr. Anton Bartok is a corrupt technology business magnate who will do absolutely anything for money and power. Veronica, Seth Brundle's lover from the previous film, has been implanted with Seth's mutated offspring. Bartok lies to her and Stathis about the incredible danger, and she dies during the birth. He keeps the seemingly normal infant, now named Martin, as a test subject until his mutations will reappear. He presents himself as a fatherly figure to Martin while manipulating him for his own ends. He uses a lab dog that Martin grew attached to for the telepod experiments, and when the experiment fails, he keeps the mutated creature alive in agony for years for further study. When Martin grows up at an accelerated rate he gives Martin a private home for himself and allows him to make some human contacts, but installs secret surveillance to continue observing him. He wants to use Martin's unique physiology to control the morpology of all life on Earth and make his company truly hegemonic.
Neither of them really sound like they cross the baseline for horror movies, especially not Alan Hines. Scraggle questioned Hines here, and there was discussion on cutting Bartok that started here, with Morgenthaler and Occasional Exister voting ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, and Lightysnake and Beast voting , but the discussion stopped. I'm throwing in a vote for both of them.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, I suspected it was for the Hate Sink thread, especially considering the last line of the writeup. It's okay though. Everyone makes mistakes.
Even so, Bartok does not have enough votes to keep, since there was never an EP and there are no more votes than votes.
Edited by falcontalons on Jun 9th 2019 at 5:49:12 AM
Wait, hold up on the Cioccolata thing, that was suppose to be for the Hate Sink thread.
My bad guys.
Edited by ReynTime250 on Jun 9th 2019 at 1:32:56 PM
I remember the Bartok discussion at least. Last I checked we resolved it after it was brought up.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Reyn Time 250 That's fine, everyone can make mistakes sometimes.
Also, just in case if someone didn't snatch it first: I'm currently reserving a new Jun Mochizuki manga (For those who don't know who Jun Mochizuki is, it's the mangaka who created PandoraHearts), The Case Study of Vanitas. Hope I got some candidates to talk about.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jun 9th 2019 at 7:46:12 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I can see an argumentm for Bartok since he is trying to mutate all of humanity, but yeah, no to the Himes guy.
Edited by username2527 on Jun 9th 2019 at 5:50:39 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
From what I've read, the "mutate all of humanity" bit seems to be played as a bog-standard Take Over the World plot.
Hmmm, in that case we may be able to keep Bartok, but I'm just switching to abstain on him for now.
Edited by falcontalons on Jun 9th 2019 at 5:56:19 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Reading Beasts stuff about that subject..I'm gonna say keep Bartok.
and that Solidifies it.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 9th 2019 at 5:56:43 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
From what I recall (it's been years since I saw the film) the mutations are nothing short of horrific and painful. You are either reduced to a pained wreck for which death would be mercy, a questionably functioning rampaging monster, or in Seth Brundles case, both.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lizzid people!
Sure, I'm fine with Bartok staying.
Bartok I'm more-or-less fine with leaving up. Hines, though, needs to go. Pronto. That's not even close to the baseline needed for this trope.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Cut Hines.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
That's fine for cutting hines
Yea on Inaros...
Since Arivne is late, I think I'll take your version on Sekiya @ACW
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."