Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Easy yes to Niculescu. Voiced by Alastair Duncan, who also voiced Curtis Blackburn.

Well, it has him returning to his father and tearing off his Roman clothing declaring that he had a plan to make the Romans rue the day they took him into their fold. He was all for his father's idea of hanging the corpses by their ankles from the trees for the other Romans to find.

Niculescu

Still sounds like at worst a vengeful Anti-Hero.

Hadden and Niculescu, easily. Not sure about Lotar, though - it still sounds like he's acting to defend his homeland from invaders.

Well, I did think he was doubtful. Should I bother with the other chap? He's the chief bad guy of the story, to be fair. The early story sets up the reason for the eerie stuff that happens later.

And now for Grogar:

What's the Work?

"The Return of Tambelon" arc of My Little Pony 'n Friends.

Who is Grogar?

Grogar is the Big Bad of this story arc. Grogar is the Sorcerous Overlord of the lost city of Tambelon. 500 years ago, Grogar attempted to conquer the world and enslave it to his whims, but was banished along with his city to the Realm of Darkness, a desolate alternate dimension. Having regained his power during his imprisonment, it begins to intersect with the dimension the unicorns teleport through, which he exploits to kidnap every unicorn in Ponyland before his return, keeping them in horrid conditions with little food (Bray explicitly says they're fed rarely and shouldn't even expect another meal) and what little he gives them amounting to gruel. He threatens his servant Bray with horn lightning, telling him to get ready for their invasion with an Implied Death Threat if he doesn't follow through to the letter.

At some point during his time, Grogar conquered and enslaved the Troggle race to his bidding, and keeps them largely in line through fear.

Within seconds of arriving back in Ponyland, Grogar launches an all out invasion and conquers Dream Valley in a matter of minutes, intending to move on to the rest of the world promptly. He more or less succeeds by the end of his second episode. Grogar's goals are twofold:

To enslave everyone in Ponyland he finds useful as his slaves, prioritizing humans and creatures with hands for utility.

And use everyone he sees no use for (namely the entire pony species) as a sacrifice in a ritual to take his and Tambelon's place in the Realm of Darkness for all eternity, children and infants included.

When Bray informs him their prisoners are escaping, Grogar threatens after shutting down the escape personally to demote Bray from his personal servant into a mere slave if it happens again, despite Bray doing everything he could. Bray's words to their army implies that Grogar applies the same to his minions.

During an attempt to lure Grogar into a trap, Grogar fights his way out while attempting to gore Danny (a pre-teen child) and several ponies with his horns before capturing more of them.

When it appears Grogar will win, he commands his minions to celebrate...and any who don't will join the ponies in the Realm of Darkness for the minor slight.

When the ponies manage to escape again, Grogar nearly blasts Bray repeatedly in a rage, then goes completely berserk and begins raining energy beams down with intent to kill this time, including the baby ponies, Spike, Danny, and Molly until Megan and North Star manage to ring the bell that's Grogar's Kryptonite Factor, destroying his power and allowing everyone to escape while Grogar and Tambelon are banished back to the Realm of Darkness once again.

Mitigating factors?

Grogar has none. His only motivation is he's a Control Freak who desires to conquer the world and rule it with an iron fist.

Grogar is also played dead serious, rivaling Tirek in that regard, and portrayed as a nigh unstoppable Hero Killer.

Yes, he was banished to the Realm of Darkness for 500 years, but it was he was attempting an invasion of the world to begin with.

Heinous Factor

Here's where Grogar gets a little complicated:

Like Lavan and Tirek, Bad Boss who frequently threatens his subordinates with death or a Fate Worse than Death. His opening scene has him threatening Bray if he doesn't do exactly as commanded, and Grogar declares not celebrating his impending victory grounds for an And I Must Scream fate.

Grogar's plan is the banish an entire species to a desolate alternate dimension and enslave the rest of the world under his iron hoof, which is about on par with Tirek's forcible transformation of ponies if not worse. We don't know exactly WHAT the Realm of Darkness is like, but his minions are terrified of being banished back there without Tambelon and the brief glimpses we see imply it is far from a pleasant place. Grogar also seems to take pleasure in knowing this is the fate he's inflicting on the ponies.

Grogar's endgame would see an entire race condemned to a horrific fate and the rest of the world completely enslaved under his iron hoof.

However, the big one is: Grogar's attempted murders are limited to trying to gore someone in a fight and raining energy beams down in the finale, both of which are trying to counter threats to his plans rather than Kick the Dog.

However, this is because Grogar has completely different motives than Lavan and Tirek: Tirek wants the Night that Never Ends, Lavan wants power for its own sake, Grogar wants CONTROL. Everything about his character presents him as wanting control over others. If Tirek kills someone, so what? He still gets his night that never ends. Lavan kills someone? So what, he still becomes a god? Grogar kills someone? He's out of a potential slave and potential sacrifice in his ritual.

While not flat out stated, Grogar's reaction to the ponies escaping on the eve of the ritual and the fact them escaping outright results in him and Tambelon being sent back to the Realm of Darkness implies Grogar needed someone else to take their place there, and even if not, it's clear Grogar on some level views it as an ironic and poetic fate given his own banishment there in his last attempted take over.

Grogar doesn't try to kill people very often because Can't Kill You, Still Need You and Pragmatic Villainy, but is clearly quite willing to kill people if the situation calls for it. In his Villainous Breakdown at the climax, he's got moments before he and Tambelon will be banished, so killing a couple sacrifices or potential slaves is kind of worth it, but Grogar in general is someone who needs people around to enslave, and doesn't like to waste potential servants or sacrifices.

Even then, I'd say 'condemn an entire species to a Fate Worse than Death', children included and enslave literally everyone else with little food and fear of death is sufficiently heinous in my mind, and we know for a fact he's done it in the past with the Troggles.

Also, there's no question of Grogar being comedic, as he's a Knight of Cerebus and rivals Tirek in how dead serious he's portrayed, and in terms of threat is a Hero Killer who handily wins every fight he's in due to sheer power.

Final Verdict?

I think Grogar counts. He's again, the last of the G1 'big three villains', and generally seen as one of the most intimidating and vile. Grogar might be less murderous than Lavan and Tirek, but his endgame still involves inflicting a Fate Worse than Death on an entire species while enslaving everyone else to his tyrannical whims.

Alright, speaking of YA, have one nasty villain coming up:

What's the work?

Ash Princess by Laura Sebastian is a fantasy set in the fire kingdom of Astrea, with the heroine being its rightful ruler Theodosia...the tiny problem being another nation has invaded and utterly destroyed her country, leaving the people as little better than slaves...Theo is given the humiliating title of 'Ash Princess' and made into little better than an abused trophy, while she attempts to survive and recover the crown. And the villain? Kaiser Corbinian, ruler of the Kalovaxians.

Who is Corbinian?

Often referred to as the Kaiser, we know everything we need to know from the Kaiser's marriage to his wife...when they were young and Corbinian newly ascended, when he married his wife to secure a political alliance? He promptly had her entire family and the ruling body of her people slaughtered on the spot at the wedding and enslaved her, eventually having her bear him a son named Soren. Since then, Corbinian leads a brutally despotic regime. Expansive war, ethnic cleansing, slavery, etc. The Kalovaxian regime is a horrific one, and Corbinian is entirely responsible. The Kaiser proceeds to invade Astrea for its wealth and excellent position, with young Theodosia taken hostage, forced to watch as her mother the queen is brought down and summarily murdered along with many, many people. Ten years pass and corbinian savagely suppresses any hint of dissent. People are tortured, executed and worse, with many sent to work to death in mines.

Theo? Is kept as a trophy, Corbinian forcing her to wear a crown of ashes as he parades her about. Not content with this, the Kaiser frequently has people tortured and murdered in front of her while subjecting her to beatings, starvation and other abuses whenever the rebellion does something he dislikes.One of the early victims we see is a rebellion leader who is likely Theo's father; tortured and murdered like many, many others. Corbinian does this frequently through the book, with increasingly horrific punishments, executing tons of people before Theo, who is kept in the household of a noble Kalovaxian family, with her friend/minder Crescentia,all while plotting out more wars....and Theo is attempting to coordinate with the rebellion and escape. Corbinian catches on and executes more of them, while deciding to deal with Theo by marrying her off to a nobleman known for horrible abuse and murdering his wives when he's had his fill....Corbinian's wife actually intervenes to cut this off, to Corbinian's irritation. Having had his fill of her, he promptly murders her by throwing her out a tower and opts to marry Theo himself.

Oh, and while it's tapdanced about a bit? Corbinian is a vicious rapist. He keeps mistresses, not by choice, and like his wife, the Kaiserin? He's a sadist who violently abuses them and torments them, leaving them pale, broken and wasted afterward, including his own wife....when he decides to question Theo even more about rebel plans, he has a little girl who was one of her servants brought in and tortured, while threatening her with a poison that literally burns you from the inside out agonizingly, having the girl given a few drops to show he means business. When Theo looks ready to finally crack, the girl actually swallows the rest of the bottle to remove the bargaining chi, condemning heself to save the rebellion.

Cres is also eventually poisoned, but turns out to have a power over fire herself like Theo, and is going to be married to Soren who's nowhere near his psycho dad in terms of evil...the end of the first book? Theo escapes with Soren as a hostage, and Corbinian seeks to recapture her to punish her properly...while marrying Cres immediately. He's mostly offstage in book 2, Lady Smoke, where eventually, Theo manages to rally an army against him with Soren's help. Cres, however, proves herself the real villain of the story and has peace talks where Corbinian turns out to be played by Cres who is manipulating him to a T. Under the truth, Cres kisses her husband...and uses her powers to agonizingly burn him alive from the inside out, slowly and horrifically painfully, before trying to kill Theo and capturing Soren to marry him, take the throne and rule herself, as book 2 ends...Corbinian's charred body is given to the fire, unlamented.

Heinousness?

Massive body count a fuckton of torture, domestic abusing murderer, ethnic cleansing, rape...pretty obvious there.

Mitigating Qualities?

Ye gods no. It's like he's intentionally written to be the most repulsive man alive. There's nothing remotely good to Corbinian. He's as evil as can be expected, and when someone proposes ransoming Soren to his dad, it's made abundantly clear Corbinian cares nothing for his son. The only woman he's shown to have any fondness for is Cres and it's made abundantly clear it's due to physical attraction and because he finds her power hot (no pun intended), nothing else. He's a complete psychopath with too much power.

Conclusion?

An easy, easy keeper.

Corbinian

Hmm, seems like we get enough information for it not to be Fridge Horror...I'll give Grogar a yes.

Weak for Grogar and definite for Corbinian.

I should note while offscreen, in book 2 we meet Corbinian's former mistress who is a wasted shell of her former self and it's made clear this is exactly what Corbinian does to women as a matter of course.

No to Grogar. All this plan is is a glorified "I'm gonna banish your friends to the Shadow Realm!" plot. I'm willing to let Lavan slide because that at least nudges toward the resident setting being annihilated, either way. I don't see what pushes Grogar at all beyond standard villainy, much less with two characters more interested in obliterating the setting outright aside from just taking it over.

Yea to Corbinian, though.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 19th 2019 at 1:56:26 PM

To the previous candidates except Grogar.

And a yes to Corbinian.

Likewise saying no to Grogar, and yes to all the Syphon Filter examples.

to Grogar who just wanted to send people to another dimension

Okay then, to Grogar.

Yes to Corbinian, but no to Grogar.

I personally view it as similar to Hammerhead from Spiderman PS 4:

He didn't try to destroy Manhattan like Doc Ock and Negative, but it wouldn't make any sense for his character to do that.

But opinions are opinions.

Edited by Godzillawolf on Feb 19th 2019 at 1:01:00 AM

Kaiser.

Hammerhead still pushed beyond standard villainy. He tortured Silver Sable with power tools, attempted to have people drown in cement, had numerous citizens killed in the crossfire of a gang war that he started, sadistically killed Yuri Watanabe's men in front of her, and so on. The comparison is apples to oranges.

Fair enough I suppose.

But to me what pushes Grogar beyond is the scope: he's not just trying to banish the heroes to a desolate dimension, but the entire pony species there. To me that's a bit further than standard villain fair.

Just my opinion though.

to Corbinian. Grogar.

Entirely. In Grogar's case, the separation between "I'm gonna rule da world!" and "I'm gonna destroy da world!" is crucial to qualification in this process. "I'm going to banish all the ponies to another dimension" is the same vague bad indescript fate 4Kids forced onto Yu-Gi-Oh! not the atrocious And I Must Scream fate you seem to trying to be dress it up as.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 19th 2019 at 2:08:37 AM

I would say the fact his minions are terrified of being banished there and what little we see of it implies its a desolate realm and far from a pleasant place, implying it actually is a horrible fate.

But again, this is why this trope is YMMV, not everyone views things the same way. To me it seemed that was the case, to you it didn't. So just giving my point of view, not arguing.