During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Found this on F-Zero page:
- Complete Monster: The games were setting up Black Shadow to be one, but then came Deathborn. We rest our case.
- It's implied that his soul was ripped out of his body and then corrupted due to the tinkering of The Creators, who might actually outdo Deathborn in terms of sheer malevolence.
- Black Shadow is back to being one in the anime.
It seems that Game!Black Shadow fails the heinousness standard and as for Deathborn, so cut. As for Deathborn.....it looks from the entry it dosen't give too much on why he qualifies. Threatening to kill his fans is generic villain fare and it seems he himself may fail the heinousness standard and has a reason for being evil, either cut this entry or expand to argue why Deathborn qualifies. The creators seem to be worse, but cut for no groups.
I haven't seen the anime nor heard this game series outside of SSMB and "Falcon Punch" memes? But is it the one with Captain Falcon's famous Heroic Sacrifise that popularized said meme? Anyways for Anime!Black Shadow, he could qualify but it should be expanded why he qualifies instead of being a ZCE.
Captain of USS Bajor
Has a decision been reached on my nomination of Adrik Thorsen back here?
I think he had net positive votes. Just do a write up
@13455 seems like a keeper.
Captain of USS Bajor
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Can we use the write-up I posted earlier, or does it need tidying?
No issues here
Party Crasher
Sorry to bring this up again. But, has the thread reached a consensus about Walder Frey from Game Of Thrones?
edited 15th Jul '13 2:42:03 PM by LogoP
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Yep. Clear keep.
Party Crasher
Thanks.
edited 11th Jul '13 4:46:50 AM by LogoP
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Should we put the GOT entries on the Live Action TV page with Jimmy O'Phelan?
Also, god, the YYH page needs rewrites. Here we go...
- Yu Yu Hakusho has had a rather varied group of monsters in its run...
- Most famous is the Elder Toguro. In contrast to his honorable Noble Demon younger brother, Toguro freely admits himself to be a treacherous sadist devoid of honor. In his first appearance, he kills Yukina's only friends, a pair of bluebirds, with great relish and in his first match at the Dark Tournament, he spares two fighters and promises to let one join Team Toguro. when one begs for his life, Toguro kills him...and then kills the other because he just hates keeping his promises. After the death of Genkai, Toguro makes a mockery of her in front of everyone. But his crowning moment of evil was letting the psychic Gourmet devour him...and then he tortuously devoured him from the inside out, delighting in his pain all the while.
- Gonzo Tarukane, the Smug Snake, Big Bad Wannabe of the Toguro arc is a Fat Bastard extraordinaire who cares nothing but for what will make him more money. To that end, he had Yukina, a gentle Ice Maiden captured and tortured to force her to cry, as her tears are precious jewels. He hires the Toguros to torture her to that end and is revealed to have physically tortured Yukina in the past. After this, he had one man who tried to help Yukina executed on the spot and taunted her about it. Vile, greedy, cruel and cowardly, Tarukane was the worst humanity had to offer in the series.
- Mad Scientist demon Dr. Ichigaki makes a kind martial arts master sick so his followers make a Deal with the Devil with Ichigaki to cure the master and save him by joining Ichigaki's experiments. He proceeds to turn said followers into bio-engineered and Brainwashed and Crazy killing machines, and doesn't even cure their master. Ichigaki openly admits to not caring about said brainwashed killing machines and only entered into the tournament to get Yusuke's body; once that happened, he'd dispose of the disciples himself. Hee takes a sick pleasure in watching Yusuke and Kuwabara choose between winning the match (and killing the innocent followers) or trying to save them (and end up slain).
- Finally, there's the Makai ruler Mukuro's stepfather. He outfitted her with cybernetics to turn her into his sex-slave at BIRTH', and started raping her as soon as the procedure was complete. This continued throughout her childhood until she disfigured herself with acid so she'd be too unattractive for him to be interested, at which point he simply threw her out. And just to make sure she wouldn't try and kill him later on, he implanted Mukuro with false memories of him having been nice to her before. He had to implant these memories because he'd never shown her any kindness in her life.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You know, it might not be a bad idea to have Game Of Thrones on the A Song of Ice and Fire page (maybe have one folder for the books and another for the show?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Remove the bullet point on the top entry, and replace the others with single asterisk points.
Any thoughts on the examples at @14489?
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Somebody brought up Ultimate Mr. Fantastic as a possible cut earlier; I read up on his recent goings-on on the Wiki and I support cutting him. Near as I can tell his current motive is "Force world peace under penalty of Death By Robots" which is definitely an idealistic goal, if in a twisted way.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
This being comics, the next obvious question is "How much does Depending on the Writer factor into this?" Is this version being written by someone different?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Besides the Deadpool Monsters, this from Ultimate Spider Man:
- Ultimate Deadpool, for being a mutant-hating bastard who replaced most of his body with cybernetics just so he could kill mutants better. His only appearance so far has him kidnapping Spider-Man and the X-Men and taking them to an island so they can be hunted down and killed.
edited 11th Jul '13 5:01:24 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
From what I've read, Hamburger Time, Reed's only doing that to show he's right. Not out of idealism. Not out of altruism. Its one big ego trip for him. Even Lightsnake pointed that out earlier.
Either way, we should wait till the arc's end for Reed. I had figured he was gone for good before this arc.
Cleric of Banjo
Can someone refresh my memory on this, didn't Ultimate Norman kill Harry while as the Goblin and then basically break down and beg for Spider-Man to kill him? IIRC, the Goblin was later the one who killed Spider-Man, so not sure if Norman got over it or what.
Also, my impression from what I've heard is that there was public approval of Ultimate Deadpool's mutant hunting.
edited 11th Jul '13 6:43:17 PM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
edited 11th Jul '13 7:29:14 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Regarding the Wonder Woman villains:
It sounds like Dr. Poison II has enough crimes to his/her name to meet the heinousness standards, doesn't have redeeming characteristics and is morally competent (unlike characters like Genocide).
Alkyone on the other hand doesn't really make the cut. First appearance attempted act is limited to one murder with well-intention-extremist motivations. Acts committed during later appearances are not heinous by the standards of the setting (look at what Dr. Poison II does in their limited appearances). Given the influences she is under it is also questionable how accountable she is for her actions during her latter appearances.
Well, deadlock broken, so that's it for Alkyone most like. No problem. I look forward to seeing in Poison.
Orders of business: - Let's put up the Jimmy O'Phelan.
- Waiting for more feedback, then swap out the Yu Yu Hakusho page.
- Get up the Game of Thrones YMMV examples
Anything else?
I'll try to do a write up for Doctor Poison II tomorrow.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Figuring what to do about Ultimate Norman (Doc Ock obvious doesn't count), Ultimate Deadpool, and Deadpool monsters.
EDIT: Oh yeah, finishing King.
edited 12th Jul '13 5:42:36 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Poison: We included Rodin from Hack Slash, and he only appeared in one issue.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts