During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
District of Brcko.
to Brcko.
So on the Dragon Ball page, we have a game where Frieza is a CM but not Cell, and where Cell is a CM but not Freiza. How about a game where both of them are CMs?
What’s the work?
Dragon Ball: Fusions is a turn-based strategy game on the 3DS where two teams of up to 5 fighters battle. In the story, the Player Character (canonically a male Earthling named Tekka, so I’ll just call him Tekka from now on) and his best friend and rival, a Saiyan named Pinich, make a wish on the Dragon Balls to create the greatest martial arts tournament ever. Shenron, seemingly with help from Beerus and Whis, creates a warped Dimension known as the Timespace Rift for the tournament to take place. Wishing to fight each other in the tournament, Pinich and Tekka create their own teams. Tekka’s team starts off with Goten, Kid Trunks, Kid Goku, and Pan (and within the game’s canonicity, stays that way, but the player can switch them with anybody they recruit.)
Who are they? What do they do?
Frieza and Cell are the Big Bad Duumvirate of the game. The team first meets Frieza in the Timespace Rift’s second “floor”, a look-a-like of Namek that happens to have Hercule City in it. There, Captain Ginyu and the Ginyu Force ask the team a favor, to help them open up a hole in space-time to free somebody important to them. Not knowing that it’s Frieza, the team agrees, freeing Frieza from hell (I think this is supposed to be after Future Trunks killed Frieza since this Frieza doesn’t have his Golden Transformation, but that’s neither here nor there). After being freed, Frieza states that he has planning to do before ordering the Ginyu Force to kill the heroes who freed him from hell for no reason, shocking Ginyu. (Ginyu and the Ginyu Force go through a case of Adaptational Nice Guys in this game, teaching Tekka’s team about the five-way fusion technique)
After defeating the Ginyu Force and going to the third “floor” Tekka’s team finds out about another hole in time-space. Curious about it, they investigate, only to find Cell there, who immediately tries to kill the team to lure out Goku who saves them. He challenges Goku to a fight but Goku asks Cell to wait so he can train up Tekka’s team to give Cell a fight, which Cell agrees to partially for the thrill of a fight, but also so that he can kill them and make Goku feel despair. When the team finishes training with Goku and fight Cell, Cell reveals he’s been opening up timespace holes to have an army of alternate timeline versions of himself fight the heroes. (Thankfully Vegeta, Goku, and Pinich hold most of them off and at least gameplay wise, the team only has to fight 5) The Cells are defeated, with the primary Cell cursing Goku before escaping.
Tekka and his team pretty much forget about Cell and Frieza for a while until the tournament itself begins. They find out that two of Pinich’s teammates are Frieza and Cell (the other two of Pinich’s teammates, Wanta and Paprika, the heroes met when dealing with Broly), and naturally, Tekka, Goten, Trunks, and Pan have suspicions. During the finals of the tournament, Tekka and Pinich’s team face off. It looks like Tekka’s team will win, but Frieza and Cell convince Pinich, Wanta, and Paprika do to their own Ultra Fusion. The five fuse together, but Cell and Frieza take over, pretty much assimilating Wanta and Paprika’s consciousness, and later doing the same to Pinich.
Frieza and Cell, in the fused “Ultra Pinich”, create a Death Ball and destroy the dimension and kill nearly everybody in it. However, Whis rewinds time, and Beerus fires a ki blast to stop it. Ultra Pinich then flees, opens up another rift in Hell to cause more chaos, and escapes the Timespace Rift to make it to their original dimension, intending to destroy Earth and then the entire Galaxy. Tekka’s team catches up after opening up a rift to the real world themselves, and fight. Ultra Pinich, now completely under Frieza and Cell’s control (so really it’s more Ultra Frieza+Cell despite being referred to as Ultra Pinich), creates more time holes to have alternate timeline versions of Frieza and Cell to aid in the fight. During combat itself, Frieza and Cell are more than willing to harm and kill their alternate timeline counterparts with the Death Spirit Bomb (which unlike most, if not all other special moves, does hurt their allies) and just has more alternate timeline counterparts take their place
After Tekka and his team defeats Ultra Pinich twice (once in regular form, once in Great Ape form), Ultra Pinich defuses into Pinich, Frieza, and Cell (the Great Ape gets Pinich back to his senses, while I guess Paprika and Wanta just die) but they fall into a black hole. Tekka follows to save Pinich. Frieza and Cell, angered that their plan failed, fuse together to form Celluza and attempt to kill Pinich and Tekka purely out of spite. Tekka and Pinich fuse together, defeat Celluza, and kill him, killing Frieza and Cell.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
Easily. Frieza and Cell pretty much try to wipe out all life in two dimensions, while all the other villains encountered in the game are pretty much bog standard of only trying to kill the heroes, with the rare occasion of some slight havock in a "floor" of the Timespace Rift.
Any mitigating factors?
Not really. Cell’s willing to not cause trouble and give Goku time to train up the heroes, but that’s only so he can have a thrilling fight, just like when he created the Cell Games in canon. And while Frieza and Cell don’t betray each other, there’s no signs of caring between the two of them. They’re just working together to reach the same goal.
There's also alternate timeline versions of Frieza and Cell who you can fight and later recruit after the main story, but that's pretty irrelevant to these two.
Final Thoughts?
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Dec 10th 2018 at 8:35:20 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
C & F
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to the classic combo.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
The wifi here sucks
to the Dragon Ball pair. Also no on the Mega Man image, the Sigma image is clearly a stock image that isn't directly connected to the other picture.
to the Dragon Ball duo. We could use some more trios.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Frieza and Cell.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Gentle Laborer
Frieza and Cell
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Groups don't tend to work very well as Monsters, they are a rarity.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Yes to the Dragon ball Duo.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Brcko, Cell, and Frieza. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Mega Man image and header, not really a fan of either.
Edited by TommyFresh on Dec 10th 2018 at 5:14:28 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
That image of Sigma is that of his Maverick Hunter X incarnation.
IPP Wick Check created.
Ultimate Moral Compass
The diabolical duo themselves.
No to the Mega Man picture. Hard no. It's official art with no context cheaply transposed over something else entirely to shoehorn it into the definition of "appropriate for Complete Monster." We might as well put up a stock picture of Palpatine over the aftermath of Order 66.
No to the Megaman picture.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
We may need to make it explicit that this was Sigma's doing.
I'm like 99.9 percent sure that subpages not having pictures is really not a thing this thread needs to spend a lot of time worrying about.
I'm still no to either of those pictures, just generally don't like the awkward split... but that face Sigma is making is making me crack the fuck up.
Look at him. That's the fact someone makes when they find a hundred dollar bill tucked inside a Big Mac.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 10th 2018 at 7:00:14 AM
What NRJ said. Stop obsessing over this.
The Unknown Unknown
It looks like he's about to take a huge bite LOL.
In any case, NRJ is correct. Enough.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Lmao Scraggle... I laugh at that joke ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Anyways, no on both Megaman images... I'm sure FW also had a good one but let the image thing put to rest as for now.
Also, yes to Cell and Frieza. As for trio? I agree with Cr0w that there are few exceptions. The three slavers from Punisher are a good examples of this and iirc, they still can act individually.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Yeah. I read that you've occasionally allowed groups of two or three, but those slavers are actually the only trio I've seen.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I'm sure that there is another trio that we approved from the same series and iirc, both of them responsible of snuff filming stuff.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I believe we were going to use an image of Mega Man DS covered in oil with a cruel smile. Not sure what happened to that one.