During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Previous candidates.
The Unknown Unknown
Cox, Maisaka, Lucifer, and Orlando.
Yeesh, Daredevil got the can? Netflix MCU on suicide watch.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And the game's wiki and wikipedia can't decide if it's Ormond or Ormand.
Yes to whatever his name is.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So I'm sure he was vetted by the thread and there must be some difference, but as pointed out on the Discussion page for Monster.Disney, Comic Syndrome's writeup is 100% applicable to the movie version as well, down to the "almost killed a mother and her baby" which sounds like it's taken directly from the film.
I'm not doubting he qualifies, but I think it would be good if the writeup indicated why he qualifies when the original didn't.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I THINK, IIRC from the effortpost, Comic!Syndrome EXPLICITLY targeted civilians.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
- Angel Cop: Governor Maisaka of Tokyo is the true Big Bad of the series. Seeking to get rich, Maisaka forms the Red May terrorist group and has them bomb Japan's infrastructure and civilians, killing innocent people by the truckload. Creating the monstrous Hunters to slaughter their way through the terrorists and many civilians. When the special forces begin investigating, Maisaka has the Hunters attempt to exterminate them, even torturing one horribly to keep his plan to use nukes against manufactured enemies secret, all so he can grow richer.
- Nation: First Mate Cox is described as a man who lives to hurt others. Frequently shooting things just to kill something, Cox murders an old man in a canoe just because he can, later attempting a mutiny to wipe out any crew not loyal to him. Later taking over a cannibal tribe by killing its king, Cox attempts to massacre the other people on Nation before facing young Mau in a Duel to the Death, trying to feed him to the nearby sharks.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Larkman: I can't remember. I stayed out of the Syndrome discussion entirely for obvious reasons.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Goku Black
Well the main difference is actually that the stuff with montage of superheros being killed by there capes or the random throw away villain who tried to blow up the city in a flashback are appenrlty gone in the comic (Never read it though ).which lowers the heinous standard.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 30th 2018 at 12:20:12 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to all the bad boys I missed.
The reason why film!Syndrome didn't count because heroes being killed by their capes was earlier played for dark humor and one of the flashback villains tried to nuke the town. Both of which are removed from the comic.
So it's less that he's more heinous and instead the heinousness standard is lower?
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Goku Black
Yes.
I don't know how to tweak an entry to say something like that as : Adaptation of X qualfifies due to a lower heinous standard than original.
comes off as awkward
Edited by miraculous on Nov 30th 2018 at 12:23:34 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Angel Cops duo, Cox, Orlando
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Would Big Bad work for Cox?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
It's not really the type of book that has a 'big bad' per se. Cox isn't an overarching villain, he's an evil obstacle
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Given the entry as-written indicates the exact opposite (the only thing in the entry that makes it clear it's not talking about the movie is the section that goes "portrayed as an even more despicable villain than in the film"), I think I'd prefer "awkward" to "misleading" if that's the case.
Maybe something like "for a setting that's less filled with villains and atrocities than the film, Syndrome manages to keep every foul deed his movie counterpart committed"
Edited by Larkmarn on Nov 30th 2018 at 3:33:21 PM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll use Sadist for Cox then? He certainly seems to enjoy hurting people.
EDIT: Ax-Crazy actually seems appropriate here.
Edited by ACW on Nov 30th 2018 at 3:37:57 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Lord Cucumberman and Cox.
Yes to Scraggle's duo (I think I forgot to vote on them), yes to the Edge Cop duo and yes to Cox. I think the Comic!Syndrome entry reads fine as it is.
edit: oh yeah, Orlando was a thing: yes there too lol
Edited by 43110 on Nov 30th 2018 at 4:20:24 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Orlando.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 30th 2018 at 4:21:22 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Maisaka, Cox, Lucifer and Le Fey
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I personally dislike the argument of "There deaths were played as dark humour". Primarily becuase it wasn't that they died, it was the WAY they died that was Played for Laughs. The fact all the others were murdered by Syndrome over a petty grudge both isn't funny and isn't portrayed as funny.
Its like if some people died in comical ways in a work that a Serial Killer from the same work couldn't count.
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 30th 2018 at 2:13:17 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
For what it's worth, I've actually thought about that too, and I agree with that point 100%. But let's face it, if it's a point that's related to Syndrome in any way, it's probably been acknowledged and taken into consideration by now.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Nov 30th 2018 at 11:36:58 AM
And now, I RETURN
With a mediocre Harry Potter film. Yay.
So, Grindelwald's pretty bad. He's murderous, cruel, sees Muggles as "Beasts of burden" and at one point has a family, including the toddler, murdered. He incites violence and conflict while being very clever about presenting himself as the hero and forces the heroes and Aurors to swear fealty to him lest they be killed by Magic Fire. Also, he almost indirectly destroyed Paris, but I don't think he meant for that to happen.
But he can't be added as of now. For one, I don't think he's heinous enough yet compared to Voldy. For another, his arc isn't over. I really wanna see how his eventual duel against Dumbledore goes - though Rowling has stated that Gridel manipulated Dumby's love and did not reciprocate, and if his WIE goals of preventing WWII are genuine or not. There's some other issues like how Dumby heard rumours Grindel felt remorse after his defeat and liked to believe that, and Harry speculates Grindel didn't want Voldy to defile Dumby's grave.
So... wait and see.
Other than him, no one's really worth keeping an eye on for now. His minions are all fairly no note.
I concur.
Despite how it’s mostly setup, Crimes of Grindelwald is still a better movie that OotP and HBP at least though and I’m on the state of mind that no Harry Potter Movie is a bad movie. I believe every one is a good movie. I found everything highly interesting no matter how much it came off as exposition.
Also, seeing Nagini in the film and her role makes what Voldemort did to her all the more disturbing and raises his evilness. What he did was essentially rape.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 30th 2018 at 3:06:30 AM
