Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Standards might be a preference since we all have our own set of them. With me, it's mostly comes down to uniqueness and use of resources. Something stands out to me if they really do all the evil they can, and have some type of uniqueness that no other villain has replicated. Scale doesn't really matter too much to me since some candidates should get in and not really being compared to someone else who's scale is literally impossible for them to replicate due to lack of power or resources, only those who are in the same level as them in my opinion.

I'll concede Ladscale should be cut, but I would argue he's worth revisiting if his game ever gets remade with additional add ons. Also the standards don't count if comparing alternative universes, right?

That would indeed be true.

Nice new pfp @Lighty! Fan of Nier I presume?

>Lighty having a profile pic.

I think hell's freezing over.

Muco

Yeah, I'm so used to you not having one of those that I got thrown off.

Thank you for supporting my wife, Lighty.

Nice profile pic Lighty.

@Lighty Nice avatar pic.

Well if the forum decides to cut Morgan Lansdale I can understand. Though given that he still alive perhaps he will appear in future installments, but yeah it's a shame since he would have qualified in any other franchise. But hey at least I got Simmons to count. And with that I believe we've exhausted that RE franchise, unless we've missed a villain from an obscure spin-off game or manga or a dumbass film.

Edited by G-Editor on Nov 19th 2018 at 6:51:36 AM

As for the Resident Evil stuff... I wouldn't mind if we cut Landsale. I don't know about RE franchise and so does Landsale so yeah...

Speaking of waifus, possibly going to EP someone on MB thread and someone from a very very bad comic film. Won't gonna tell you as it's going to ruin the surprise. But kudos for mir for recommending that regardless of how bad the reputation is.

Oh my YHVH. Lighty finally got a profile pic. What a day.

I should change mine. Is getting old and I need one to show whatever is my new current interest.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 19th 2018 at 12:01:21 PM

Nier automata? Just saying, one of my favorites.

Nie R Automata GOTY 2017 and all preceding and proceeding years.

We've discussed it before, but I'll say again in case anyone is interested: There are no CM's in the first Nie R or Automata. Yoko Taro, who is the auteur of these games, doesn't really go for traditional villains... or heroes... or most anything really.

The characters of Nie R do terrible things without realising they're terrible. This is simply due to a lack of knowledge or just bad luck or an opinion etc. They almost never even realise what they're doing is morally questionable and the few that do are almost always very distressed but still believe it's the lesser evil or have some other reason for it.

That being said, there are some obscure Nie R spinoffs novels that might have a keep. I recall on this very wiki reading about some terrible Mad Scientist who lived prior to Nie R, but I know little about him.

Also 2B's going to be DLC for Soul Calibur VI please buy her so she can continue her journey to be in every game ever just like Shovel Knight.

As Polar said...nobody counts in the Nier games or comes close. They're so beautifully morally complex, too.

Chiming in with a few late votes now that I have the time: yes to Flower, Helen, Muco, Odate, Micah, Favours, and all three latest additions to the Batman CM page.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Nov 19th 2018 at 9:28:28 AM

Moral Ambiguity=/= Good Story per se.

Sorry, is already a instinctive answer to words like that.

Can we get back on topic, all of you? NIER doesn't need to be discussed here at any length and posts like make me think this is just going to derail further.

Edited by Scraggle on Nov 19th 2018 at 10:26:10 AM

Oh right yeah. Past midnight here. So long story short, nobody counts in Mayans MC. It takes place in the same universe as Sons of Anarchy, which already has a jacked-up heinous standard. Everyone who could possibly count has a redeeming quality or loved one, etc., etc.

Kurt Sutter seems to enjoy making you love the "bad guys" and hate the "good guys" for all the right(?) reasons.

Lighty was talking about "moral complexity" rather than ambiguity, which is different.

And there was... one guy who came close in the first Nie R, but ended up realising he actually cared about someone other than himself and even sacrifices himself to save this woman.

EDIT: I understand. I will refrain from speaking further on these games.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Nov 19th 2018 at 5:29:10 PM

I do have a Mad Scientist Starter Villain and likely a Sobrenatural Creepy Child from Trace.

It would be funny that at the end, only that Starter Villain counted and I'd just read several volumes for—in the purposes of this thread—nothing. And the series isn't bad neither, I do enjoy it.

Have to be honest. I've spended too much time here that now I can't avoid but looking. I just really like doing EP.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 19th 2018 at 12:32:01 PM

Has anyone revisited the original Persona for candidates? I briefly check and not really seen any stickers, but maybe the Night Queen story might have one.

Also, nobody, at least in the games, counts in Nier because nobody really is evil, just doing their own thing.

Kandori is a definitive No.

There a villain who is close, but lacks agency. To give you a example, she did turn a small store into her own hellish dictatorship...but she was the literal demonized version of The Heroine Romantic Rival. When her mask was broken and the real person was free, she was a decent person. Kinda bitchy due to some highschool drama, but hardly a villain in a setting where a man threw his natal village to a Eldritch Location.

The Night Queen seems to lack agency as well, thought I might do the Snow Queen Route myself (it apparently needs a lot of grinding, I'd prefer Maki' route).

Yeah. I would try it. I'm a huge fan of the first Persona.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 19th 2018 at 12:53:42 PM

So as promised, after having a combination of a lazy day and a busy one, here's the effortpost for Colm O'Driscoll of Red Dead Redemption 2. I have at least two candidates from different works, including a revisit on my mind but one is a surprise I'm saving for a later date, and the other I'm still yet to re-watch.

Who is Colm ? What Does He Do ?

Colm O'Driscoll is a vicious outlaw and an old friend turned enemy of Dutch, as well as one of many of the games Big Bad Ensemble and Arc Villains (although story wise I place him as a Decoy Antagonist). In their past, Colm and Dutch used to ride together before falling out and going their separate ways on account of Dutch killing Colm's brother; Colm despite admitting to "not liking [his brother] anyways" retaliates by murdering Dutch's girlfriend Annabelle and from there a bitter rivalry between the two grew.

Over the years Dutch went on to start a gang that functioned as a surrogate family unit in about the double digits. Colm, on the other hand, grew a far more reaching and massive gang that spanned across five states. What does this gang do ? Rape, Pillage, and Burn with impunity across the states, with Dutch and the gang often crossing paths with them in obvious conflict. This is no skin off Colm's nose as he constantly uses his men as cannon fodder and rehires more. One such example occurs early in the game when Dutch, Arthur and Micah find Colm's men have ransacked a homestead, having raped Sadie Adler and murdered her husband. After rescuing Sadie, Dutch and crew would later rob the O'Driscoll gang, and abduct an unlucky gangster named Kieran Duffy, who states that Colm would kill him for his failure.

After more unpleasant encounters between the O'Driscoll's and the Van Der Linde gang, and our good friend Micah Bell arranges a "parlay" meeting between Dutch and Colm to seemingly make peace. Colm reveals he made a deal with the Pinkerton Detectives to sell out the Van Der Linde's but "hasn't made up his mind". This turns out to be a ruse to kidnap our protagonist and Dutch's son-figure Arthur. While in captivity, Arthur is beaten and tortured by Colm who reveals and gloats that he plans on luring Dutch and the gang on a rescue operation to eventually sell them all out. Luckily Arthur manages to use his wits and what strength he has left to escape back to Dutch's camp where Arthur is in such bad shape he's pretty much hospitalized for weeks.

Now as it turns out, Kieran ? Despite a rocky start is slowly beginning to defect into the Van Der Linde gang, which he finds preferable to Colm's. And the suddenly Kieran goes missing, but eventually returns...after Colm carved out Kieran's eyes, cut off his head and sent the body and head back to the new camp on horseback to kickstart an attack on Dutch's gang. The attack is fought off but regardless, they still have Kieran's mutilated body to bury.

Later on we find out Colm has been arrested and sentenced to hang for a decades worth of crimes including murder, rape, torture - things that would generally warrant the death sentence. Thing is ? Colm has been to the gallows at least twice, with both attempts to hang him being foiled by his men. Luckily, Dutch, Arthur and Sadie are on to this and attend the hanging incognito. Colm is confident that he will get out of this alive, while Dutch and Sadie take the O'Driscoll's in the crowd hostage, while Arthur takes out a sniper from a nearby roof. When Colm notices Dutch and Sadie in the crowd and Arthur waving at him from where his sniper should be, Colm's smug demeanour immediately drops as he is hanged to death and Sadie starts the penultimate fight with Colm's men (there's a later mission involving them with Arthur and Sadie hunting down the men who raped her and killed her husband to their last hideout).

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?

None actually. He's got enough characterization despite his minimal appearances with the sadism, cunning and arrogance that's to be expected. That bit about Dutch killing his brother and Colm killing Dutch's girlfriend ? Colm states he never liked he brother anyway and shows no remorse or empathy for Annabelle's murder and that's that. He's also a bad boss who generally abuses his men, sees them as expendable foot soldiers, and will kill them brutally is they cross him as he demonstrates with Kieran.

Heinous Standard

Besides this seemingly taking part in what I like to call "The Rockstar Universe" (I know, continuity issues and what have ya, but GTA V just keeps giving in the Broad Strokes department - don't get me started or we'll be here all day), Red Dead has a high heinous standard, even with its better morality and this game is no exception. And it's because of this I hesitate on Colm.

Colm and his gang have confirmed history of mass murder and rape across several states, but Colm himself is an Orcus on His Throne type character - sure we confront and see his gang throughout the game and some of their activities especially where Sadie Adler is concerned, Colm himself only makes three personal appearances in the entire game and doesn't have the dignity to be "defeated" onscreen (unless we're counting his hanging and foiling attempts to stop it as a Cutscene Boss). Yes his gang gets up to some depraved shit with their Rape, Pillage, and Burn and stated to cross lines the Van Der Linde's wouldn't. But Colm himself is mostly a background character talked about but not seen with his gang going about their villainous business. Colm is not even confirmed to have been part of the group that raped Sadie and killed her husband (although the characters consider him responsible because it's, y'know his gang).

Now Colm is nasty in all his appearances; his torture and beatdown of Arthur is brutal, and his killing of Kieran is needlessly cruel and sadistic but that's about it. Compare to Micah Bell, who causes all manner of chaos throughout the game, personally slaughters half a town near single handedly and is shown killing defenceless innocence and stated to have killed or tried to kill children, and murdered a family. Micah has a larger personal body count by far compared to Colm and is just as if not more cruel.

Then there's his gang, which is mentioned to be one of the largest gangs in the country, spanning across five different states. He's pretty powerful as far as outlaws go. Now I'm not gonna say that rape and murder aren't bad, but if we are talking quality and quantity, but then you got this one gang that are hillbilly cannibals that are implied to worship an Eldritch Abomination, and this other gang that love to skin, mutilate, and torture (especially with scalping or cooking their victims alive) - pretty much a gang of Randall Forresters.

My personal conclusion is that Colm is like another member of the ensemble, Leviticus Cornwall; both are behind some horrid crimes (Cornwall's being profiting off of Favours "war" and a cruel slavery operation off the coast of Cuba) but to much of Orcus' On Their respective Thrones due to having a handful of appearances. Give credit where it's due, Colm can get nasty when he gets personal.

Edited by Beast on Nov 20th 2018 at 7:25:34 AM

Colm I have serious reservation on, TBH...like, with Micah and Favours there...I think they set the standard too high

I'm unfortunately going to have to say nay to Colm... him being that removed from the especially nasty stuff perpetrated by his gang is the fatal wound to his qualification, I think.

to colm