During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Is Chilling Adventures a Spin-Off of Riverdale? I thoight it was on a different network
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
The creators said it may take place in the same continuity.
And during a time a briefly checked out the page I heard that a side Charahcter that appeared in Sabrina that riverdale also had. Likely to hint at a Shared Universe
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 9th 2018 at 11:42:49 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Well technically, The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina meant to in the in the same network as Riverdale before Netflix got it. That said the pizza man from Riverdale makes an appearance here and there's still some talks that the two shows will cross-over.
Anywho Sorry about being a bit more agitated than usual. Its just I lost my wallet on the bus today. The wallet contained my State ID, cash, debit card, my social security number etc and I had to skip class just to spend the whole day trying to find it to no avail! Thankfully a Nice Girl on found my wallet and gave it back to me this evening so I'm a little bit better.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Well thank God for that girl. Sorry you had to go through that
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Madam Satan blows the Riverdale standard out of the water anyways, so it's not much worth talking about.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yeesh... Glad that you're okay G!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Satan and abstain on Pinnochio. The Korean thriller that i was watching had zero candidates, so let's try something else.
What is the work? Whispered Faith is a suspense-horror webseries about an ordinary man named Lee and his connection to a Tome of Eldritch Lore, The Book, an artifact that is desired by The Family, a mysterious cult led by an Ax-Crazy young man. This dude is not our candidate, but the source of all the problems in the series.
Who is he? The Speaker is an otherwordly entity who wishes nothing more than power for his own sake, taking the form of an animalistic, pale monster when in our world. As his name implies, The Speaker likes to... speak, as a matter of fact, speaking to humans is his favorite hobby. Before the events of the series, The Speaker approached Sean, one of Lee's closest friends, and gave him visions of the past and the future, different dimensions, promising to make him a God, just by speaking to him, until he made him addicted to his voice, transforming an innocent boy into his own "junkie". Obsessed with The Speaker's voice, Sean founded The Family just so he could have more of it. Ruling The Family from behind the curtains, using Sean as a pawn via telepathy, The Speaker captures Lee and takes him to The Family's base, where is held hostage for several months.
As The Family's newest toy, The Speaker sends Sean to physically torture him almost daily, while he takes the chance to speak to Lee himself, but not to make him feel like a God oh no, The Speaker gives him massive cases of Mind Rape to break his spirit, giving him disgusting visions of tragedies involving his friends and other nasty things, which make him cough up blood. After Lee finally escapes by temporarily allying himself with Sean's right-hand Lexx, who was also a victim of his madness, Lee abducts Sean and finally discovers what The Speaker had done to him, abandoning his desire to inflict him pain because his "existence is already suffering".
When Lexx usurps the position of Family leader in Sean's absence, The Speaker is more than happy to have her as his new subordinate, following her to the place where Sean is being held, and mauling him to death, taking the life of Lee's best friend Mo shortly after. Trapping all of his disciples in the Purgatory for him to feed upon for all of eternity, The Speaker takes Sean's benevolent spirit, who is in the process of being cured from The Speaker's addiction, to this hellish void; Sean, now no longer the psychotic maniac that he was before (but still loyal to The Speaker even after his execution) acts as Lee's guide before returning to his position as The Speaker's never-ending dessert.
Freudian Excuses? Nah, The Speaker is attracted to The Book because it is an obvious source of power.
Heinous? Yes, yes, and yes. It is a mystery if The Speaker is part of the Shared Universe, since Lee has appeared in cameos but never made a solid canon crossover with a major Slenderverse series. The Speaker himself has not been mentioned by any other antagonist, Every Man Hybrid's HABIT included, and the fact that he has his own little pet which is also based on The Rake gives us some severe inconsistencies, as The Speaker and this monster have nothing in common except their appearances. In conclusion, the series has decided to do its own thing with The Rake by making him not just another mindless animal, but a cruel and intelligent mastermind in the body of a deformed beast.
Conclusion? What you say?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 10th 2018 at 1:22:27 PM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to the speaker
to Pinocchio. He did all these good deeds for all the selfish reasons. So that does not mitigate him at all.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, thanks for the explanation on Zorin, Lighty.
Madame Satan. First CM for Michelle Gomez? Also, not Uncle Jesse!
Ah, Beast, Lilith number 3? I had to check; the True Blood one needs the pothole changed.
Unsure on Pinocchio.
Sure to the Speaker. I guess he'll go to the Creepypasta page?
Edited by ACW on Nov 10th 2018 at 6:31:35 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Madame Satan. Agree she counts after seeing the first season.
Pinocchio and the Speaker
Madam Satan and the Speaker. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Pinnochio.
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I guess so, since the other Slenderverse baddies are also there.
Speaker.
Goku Black
Speaker
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the speaker.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
Speaker and Mrs. Satan
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Speaker
Madam Satan
Pinnochio
@Elfen: Don't forget Johan Liebert from Monster, the whole series is showing several possible FE for him that ultimately are subverted and show as Johan learning how to be even worse.
Watch me destroying my country
I'm sorry but I've gotta chime in here... is keeping a list of CMs with FEs listed like this really a good idea? That seems to be the most popular repeated topic for why someone should get cut even after discussion gets rehashed 20 times. At the end of the day, it looks—to me at least—like just more fuel to later have to build onto the never again list.
Gentle Laborer
Have to agree with 43.
Lizzid people!
Thank you.
I dunno, I feel like listing examples whose FE don't disqualify them can help prevent them from being brought up in the future in case any newcomers to the thread question their inclusion due to said FE
Yeah but it is a case-by-case basis as different works portray particular F Es differently. For example, Obito's FE would be pretty weak in most other works but the series portrays as a legitimate Tragic Villain.
Edited by username2527 on Nov 10th 2018 at 8:45:00 AM
Holy hell I'm excited för the RDR 2 discussion. Like someone else, it has alot of candidates as well, so it's gonna be interestimg to see who counts.