Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Dark Souls 3

Man I remember going through Dark Souls III and thinking Aldrich was probably a CM but he probably wouldn't get added due to the nature of DS storytelling, feeling a small twinge of disappointment as I was appalled by the terrible things I was reading.

It was a pleasant surprise to see him listed two years ago. Suly, too, though I didn't consider Suly at the time.

Anyway, that's enough of me waxing nostalgic for now. Hope we've cleared some stuff up, Devoted.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:26:00 PM

You have. Thanks a lot! In the meantime, I'm definitely on board with Miraculous and ACW for adding that extra point to the Administrivia page about candidates needing to appear onscreen to qualify, at least in a very small capacity. It never seemed important enough to bring up before since it's probably extremely rare to come across a character like the one I was thinking of that is only talked about and never actually appears, but still has notable heinous credits to their name that are seen and felt to some extent onscreen, but now that it's been established that such a thing can exist, that would be really helpful for clearing up those sorts of cases (as well as for anyone who worries that a character with minimal screen-time might not qualify).

By the way, for anyone who happens to be interested in who I was referring to, the character in question is this guy named Logsam from Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit. Pronunciation-wise, think of the words "low" and "some", with a soft g in the middle. It sounds a lot like "loathsome", appropriately enough. If you've seen the series and don't remember him, I don't blame you; like I previously stated, he never actually appeared onscreen, but he was explicitly stated by Balsa to be the one that was responsible for all the bad things that happened in the backstory that she shared with Chagum in episodes 21 and 22.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:02:04 AM

I get that feeling. There were some villains that I thought "they would qualify if they were just a bit worse" but then I'd come here and watched how they...actually counted.

I felt silly. A lot

It's how I felt about Hidan. I was so surprised when I first saw him on the trope page, what with how commonplace mass murder is Naruto I didn't think would count (and personally still don't).

I remember going on this website for one of the first times and searching for Kill Bill. Pretty much every villain in the films are either insufficiently heinous or has minor redeeming qualities, not to mention Bill himself, but there was that rapist pedophile guy with two minutes of screentime in a quick flashback scene, but he's probably not heinous enough or too forgettable. The first thing I saw on the YMMV was that Boss Matsumoto was a CM; I was so confused about how the film had a CM to begin with, as, from what I remembered, every villain was portrayed sympathetically. Then I looked it up and oh yeah... he's that character who appears for a minute in a flashback scene. I really didn't expect that.

Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:36:59 PM

I mean, since we're talking Dark Souls, I might as well give this the old college try...

What's the work?

Demon's Souls is the predecessor to FromSoftware's legendary Dark Souls series. The game takes place in Boletaria, a kingdom brought to ruin by a fiendish fog that blocked it off from its neighboring counties and unleashed demons upon the land. Numerous travelers know of Boletaria's state, and traveled there either in the hopes that they can save it from certain doom, or to seek the mysterious magical abilities known as Soul Arts. Most of them die, go crazy, or turn into demons themselves.

Boletaria is not a nice place to live.

You, the Slayer of Demons, die as well, and find that your soul has become bound to the Nexus, a small sanctuary that houses people of all backgrounds, even if a couple of them disagree with each other. With this pseudo immortality in tow, the Slayer goes around the land attempting to dispel the fog and save Boletaria.

Roughly halfway through the adventure, they will reach the Tower of Latria, a nightmarish bulding housing countless demons and captured victims. One of these victims is the unseeming Yurt, who requests his freedom. Yurt looks like a medieval Darth Vader. If you let him out, it's your own fault, because you just triggered the game's most infamous sidequest.

Who is Yurt, the Silent Chief?

Yurt is, in actuality, a cruel mercenary hired by the enigmatic Mephistopheles to murder anybody who knows of the Soul Arts. Once freed from his prison, Yurt will make his way to the Nexus. The player can check on him after killing a boss, where he feigns friendliness by thanking them for their assistance, only to turn much colder if talked to a second time, stating "life is hardly as precious as one might think".

After this, whenever the player kills a boss, Yurt will assassinate one of the denizens of the Nexus offscreen, starting out with two generic schmucks who's corpses can be found lying around the area, before proceeding to murder the named NPCs players might have grown attached to. Left unattended, Yurt can kill up to 8 people this way. If confronted, Yurt dryly states they he's "murdered every surviving human in Boletaria" before turning his attention to the player, who is also on his hitlist.

Are they sufficiently heinous?

Boletaria is hell on earth. There's corpses everywhere and most of the enemies you meet are crazed and violent. The thing is, however, that most of the death can be traced back to the demons, who are extremely powerful, and the numerous pseudo-organizations encountered within the game, who have resources in numbers. Yurt is one guy. There is no singular villain on the power level that Yurt resides in, the sole exception being Patches the Hyena, who is much more ineffectual, willing to be affable, and has a way lower confirmed attempted body count.

With that in mind? Up to 8 kills, an attempt on the player's life (who helped him, btw), and the implication that he's been doing this for a while, combined with his extremely minuscule screen-time and dialogue, all make him come off as especially nasty.

I should admit, however, that judging heinousness is like my main weakness with this trope. If I am completely wrong here I apologize for wasting everybody's time.

Mitigating qualities?

Noooope. Just a psychotic prick. Offstage Villainy is a non-issue too, as we see the corpses of his first two victims and he blatantly attempts to cut down the player where they stand.

Verdict?

You decide.

Eight persons is bad. But...he is a mercenary able to fight the Player Character, that is not just a average guy, is someone that can kill a lot more.

Someone as him should be something like Wyald from Berserk or Shira from Blade of the Inmortal. Have either a notorious body count or/and extremely cruel ways to kill.

Sorry but Yurt, the Silent Chief

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 23rd 2018 at 10:14:11 AM

Yeah, I hate to say it, and it's a good EP, but Yurt...I think he fails the heinous standard. Demon's souls is so dark, with King Allant unleashing the Demon Fog to consume Boletaria,the evidence of the crimes of the demons which include mass slaughter, the Old Monk and turning the Tower into a horrific wide scale torture chamber where countless innocents are massacred and tortured. If that weren't enough, were have Mephistopheles and the Butcher/Executioner who order or execute tons of people. Yurt...doesn't really stick out enough.

Yep. Another case where a lack of resources doesn't necessarily cut it where the kinds of murders Surt gets up to are commonplace on every tier. No need to apologize for wasting our time, though — I think he is genuinely worth a look in context, but I don't think he cuts it over all.

Truthfully, I'd consider the Old Monk worthy of an EP if I wasn't worried about compromised agency due to his robe being alive and possibly controlling him, and King Allant if he didn't have corru[ted good intentions.

Ah well, it was worth a spin. Frankly I'm friggin' bad at judging heinousness so don't expect me to pop back up any time soon, but thank you for your time anyway.

<3

Edited by DocSharp on Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:19:01 AM

Oh, we hope you stick around, Sharp. Your posts in the MB thread have been great.

Yurt

to Yurt.

As a sidenote, have you ever been haunted with a candidate from a fanwork who you feel qualifies suddenly popping into your head, but can't get properly verified due to the work having long since been deleted? That's been me for the past several days.

No to Yurt. Yeah, Aldrich and Sulyvahn are excellent characters as a result of how you see zones dedicated to portraying the results of their crimes. Lore is still storytelling as well, and the two of them are great characters thanks to that, and yeah you don't have to have a character onscreen for alot of time for them to count but they do have to be onscreen once at the minimum.

Edited by Knack on Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:49:46 AM

To Yurt. I wonder if anyone qualifies in Demon Souls and the Dark Souls series aside from Aldrich and The Pontiff

Using my D A R K S O U L S L O R E knowledge, I can say probably not. Aldrich and Sulyvahn are way worse than just about everybody else save for Gwyn (who is an Anti-Villain) and Seath the Scaleless (who goes insane). There's also Nashandra, who miiiight be worth a shot, but I don't remember enough about her to say anything concrete.

As for the sister games, well, Lighty outlined Demon Souls up there. Bloodborne has one guy who might be worth a look (Provost Willem), but that's a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone. He's referenced a lot in the game's lore and you would need to do a ton of reading to make sure you didn't overlook a potential redeeming quality.

Hey guys. It's been a while since I've been on here, but I just wanted to let you know, I found this on The Maze Runner YMMV page.

• Complete Monster: Assistant Director Janson, debuting in the second film, is a cold, self-serving man who serves as the chief operative of WCKD, helping to oversee the Maze experiments with many dozens of children immune to the Flare virus exposed to the horrors of WCKD's Mazes, with countless numbers of them killed. Trying to trick the survivors into letting their organs be harvested under the false pretense of giving them refuge, and later aiding in an attack on the Right Arm while personally executing Mary, one of their leaders, Janson comes into his own in The Death Cure, where he becomes even more ruthless in trying to procure a cure to the Flare. Janson orders a crowd of protesters fired on by cannons to get at Thomas, smugly implores Thomas to shoot Teresa when he takes her at gunpoint, and having Thomas's friend Minho exposed to horrible, potentially lethal psychological experiments to lure him out. Janson ultimately murders WCKD's head Dr. Paige himself and, with the cure revealed to be in Thomas's blood, reveals his true goal to build a future of his own design by selecting who gets to be cured while leaving all the rest of humanity to be driven insane and slowly die from the Flare. Even in an organization of mad scientists with little regards to how far they have to plunge to root out a cure to the Flare, Janson stands out as an utter sociopath with no scruples or benevolent intentions whatsoever. Furthermore, after Teresa betrays him and attempts to escape with Thomas, Janson becomes even more ruthless and unhinged while still retaining an eerily calm demeanor, showing joy and pleasure in hunting Thomas and Teresa down. Even after he catches Teresa and acquires the cure, Janson still intends to kill Teresa and Thomas, despite having what he wants, showing a clear degree of sadism and complete insanity.

Starting with "furthermore", everything is completely superfluous to the writeup, which I believe was written by Scrags. I think that this was added by someone else, as it's not included on the writeup on Film K To R. I went ahead and removed that part, just wanted to let you guys know.

Also, I'm probably gonna retiring my JoeBlitz username, so if I come back to this thread, it'll be under a different handle. You guys take care.

Oh, thanks for cutting that. Truthfully I could probably work to cut down even the base writeup a little but, but that last sentence adds absolutely nothing that isn't already implied in what I wrote up there.

Also, I... could have sworn Provost Willem was brought up already in some context here?

Oh, Sharp, a tip if you want? If you want a more accurate measure on heinousness, stick around and read a few other effortposts, watch some of the discussions. The heinousness issue can be incredibly murky but I find seeing it on a case-by-case makes it become clear as you've get an idea of what it takes to measure up to both absolute (general) heinousness and relative (by the standards of the setting) heinousness. Your contributions here are genuinely appreciated either way and don't think any effortpost here would be a waste of our time — it goes against the point of the "effort" that goes into that stuff.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:58:22 PM

No to Yurt but great job on the EP Doc. Hopefully you'll like it in here.

Also @Joe Blitz Oof... See you soon on the other account I guess. You won't be missed.

And on another hand... I've finished an anime called "Planet With". PM me for discussion about it.

Yeah, Yurt. Others have spoken well on him. It's the Van Zant (from Dragon Ball Z) example.

Wait, Provost Willem? I thought he was a good but misguided man? In fact, he was less misguided than some other villains.

Like there are only two people I would have considered candidates in Bloodborne, but both are probably insane and think they're doing the right thing. Those would be Micolash, who led a crazy murder cult, and a mad doctor that turns people into... horrible things - and even she might think she's helping them though I get the impression it's just to increase her own knowledge.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. As for Willem, like, I just don't know. Bloodborne lore confuses the heck outta me. Whenever I try looking up people who put the Story Breadcrumbs together there tends to be conflicting information on whether he had good intentions. His character page on this site doesn't acknowledge any sort of positive traits, but soulslore.com seems to think he's a visionary.

Really, I'm a sailor trying to fly a plane here. I won't push it.

Hey I've been looking into Exoptable Money and Presentable Liberty and I think that Dr. Money may count. My issue is that the game's story telling is entirely through letters with almost nothing being seen, does anybody think that he might have a chance?

Yurt