Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Anyway we're getting off topic.

Wetzler

to Karl Bishop Weyland, Giichi Onizuka, Iwao Himuro, Iselda, and Wetzler.

So what's the new limit for a CM page? 6 or 7? I wanna know which ones to merge.

BTW, Lamarr and the Wilson bros. (Jack Reacher) & the Doctor (Heavy Rain) all got enough voters to cut, right?

edited 2nd May '18 5:14:57 PM by ACW

Pretty sure it's been seven for a while now and I seriously don't get why we're keeping the six grandfathered ones but I'm so tired of pages being brought up I barely even care anymore.

New proposal for tonight, and a duo.

What's the work?

A Lonely Place to Die is a 2011 film about a group of friends hiking and mountaineering in the Scottish highlands. By chance? They come across a young girl. Buried alive with a breathing tube in the wilderness. The group obviously wants to save the girl but the people who took her ain't so eager to let their little payday free. Enter the nasty duo of Kid and Mcrae.

Who are Kid and Mcrae?

A pair of sociopaths, murderers, kidnappers and thugs. Kid and Mcrae spot heroes Alison and Rob attempting to rappel down a large mountain to get to the nearest village and go for help after rescuing the girl Anna. The two cut Rob's rope, letting him fall to his death before trying to murder Alison who escapes. Thankfully for Kid and Mcrae, they run into a pair of poachers near the cliff...Kid slits the throat of one and then they sadistically force the other over the cliff, taking their guns to have a better chance of murdering Alison and the others. Alison regroups with her friends, only for the duo to gun one of said friends down. Alison's friend Alex manages to fake Kid and Mcrae out, only for them to gun him down as well, while Alison and Anna flee to the nearby village.

Complicating things is a Serbian mobster named Darko, representative of Anna's father, has sent in a pair of mercenaries to recover Anna while he negotiates with the duo. During the negotiation with Darko, Kidd recounts a creepy story when he murdered a previous child he kidnapped when the parents refused to pay, only for Darko to catch on to how Kidd no longer has Anna. In the town, Mcrae and Kidd murder several officers and townspeople, and in an ensuing confrontation, Alison's last friend is killed and Mcrae guns down one of the mercenaries. Kidd and Mcrae show absolutely zero compunction shooting their way through anyone in their path, and Kidd realizes the going's gotten too tough and abandons Mcrae, who confronts Alison, ending with her shoving him out of a high window to his death.

Kidd? Is apprehended by the Serbian mobsters. They'd thought they'd blackmail Anna's wealthy mother but failed to consider her father is a former Serbian war criminal turned mobster who coolly informs Kidd that behind his wealthy ex-wife is a man with very deep pockets. "You should have been more concerned with how he lined them." He then orders Kidd stripped and thrown in a literal hole in the woods to torture him and bury him alive, paying off the surviving mercenary (after telling him not to mourn his partner too much since he doesn't have to halve the fee), as Alison also recovers with Anna at her side.

mitigating Qualities?

No, none to speak of. Mcrae and Kidd have no real genuine friendship. they're awful people united for the chance of a payday and nothing else. They kill a bunch of innocent people,have no compunction murdering kids if they don't get paid and are just awful in general. The Serbian mobsters are...obviously no angels but their primary goal is getting their boss's daughter back safe. Anna's dad is an ex-war criminal, but we're not shown any evil stuff he's done, and he dearly loves Anna (and even financially takes care of his ex-wife, Anna's mother). The only thing he does onscreen is have Kidd given a well-deserved horrible fate. So pass here.

Conclusion?

I'd say keep the duo.

Easy yes there and thanks for getting the thread back on track

Kidd and Mcrae.

Lighty's duo.

Kidd and Mcrae.

edited 2nd May '18 5:51:40 PM by TommyFresh

for Kidd and Mcrae.

to Shilliew

to Lighty's duo

to Lighty's duo.

Anyway, here's the writeup for Iselda.

• Critical Role-Vox Machina Origins: Iselda is a higher up within the criminal organization, The Myriad. Wishing to advance further in the ranks, Iselda attempts to take control of the swamp port city, Stillben, away from rival criminal gang, The Clasp. Iselda has Zeth, an alchemist living within Stillben, brew a dangerous poison, Aqua Caedes, and have it pollute the swamp, sending infants and ill people who live within the swamp's vicinity in a vegetative state. Iselda then has Zeth trick the residents of Stillben into believing that it's a curse that can be appeased by sacrificing those who were affected by the poison to the shark-speakers. After fleeing from the party during their first confrontation, Iselda makes a plan to kidnap Vax and use him as bait for the rest of the party, using his life as a bargaining chip to get the heroes to join The Myriad. During Vax's escape, he finds out that Iselda is using the souls of those who fell victim to Aqua Caedes as ingredients for a curse to kill every person who came into contact with the swamp water around Stillben in an attempt to wipe out it's entire population.

edited 2nd May '18 6:38:43 PM by Awesomekid42

To Lighty’s duo

I think we should just keep the pages as is.

Kidd and Mcrae

kidd and mccrae

To the McKidd duo.

edited 2nd May '18 7:25:58 PM by MasterJoseph

to Lighty's duo.

Just got back from Rampage, and that movie did not disappoint!

After we came to the general consensus that Machinedramon and Millenniummon should at least be split, I said that when I'd finished my rewatch of the show, I'd provide a proper write up for Machinedramon so we could discuss him on his own merits. I'm finished it, so here's my post.

Before I begin however, I want to point out that the original effortpost, which I had previously described as substantially correct? Is not. It conflates Machinedramon's actions with those of other Dark Masters, automatically assigns him responsibility for actions that we don't know were his, and essentially tries to invent bodies to add to his count. On places where my account and the original effortpost conflict I'm going to leave a note, explaining the differences.

Who is Machinedramon? What has he done?

Machinedramon is one of the four Dark Masters, alongside Piedmon, Puppetmon, and MetalSeadramon. Empowered by Apocalymon, the actual Big Bad of the initial show, the Dark Masters tried to overrun the Digital World in the past but were halted by the original Digidestined. The new Tri films expand on this, revealing that the Dark Masters actually defeated the original Digidestined and were about to execute them all before four of them evolved into the Four Digimon Sovereigns and sealed the Dark Masters away; at least one of the unevolved Digimon died in this battle.

The Dark Masters break out of confinement sometime during Digimon Adventure 1 and conquer the Digital World again, reshaping it into their base of Spiral Mountain. The specifics of what any individual Dark Master did here are hazy, though given the presence of a machine army during the conquest of the Gekomon Kingdom it's apparent Machinedramon was involved in this.^note The original effort post assigns him full responsibility for this, even though he never actually appears. It also claims that only three Gekomon survived the attack. We actually see a significant number of Gekomon survivors later on. When the Digidestined return to the Digital World, the Dark Masters attack the Digidestined as a group and defeat them. When Piximon tries to buy the Digidestined time to escape, he is killed by the Dark Masters.^note The original effortpost claims Machinedramon did this because the blast from Piximon's death looks like Giga Cannon. Even if this is correct, all four Dark Masters cornered Piximon and were prepared to attack him; at most Machinedramon gave the killing blow

Machinedramon sits out the Digidestined's battles with MetalSeadramon and Puppetmon. When they arrive in his city, he sends out his army to track them down. When they fail to, he levels the city.^note The original post tries to claim he killed lots of Digimon doing this, but the city was empty save for his own army, and we never see any of his own men killed by this action. If any were, the show never acknowledges it. When the kids flee underground, they discover that Machinedramon has enslaved a large number of Numemon ^note the original post says "hundreds" but no number is given and has WaruMonzaemon acting as their slave driver. When the Numemon revolt and WaruMonzaemon is defeated, Machinedramon executes/blows of WaruMonzaemon's arm, depending on dub or sub.

Machinedramon chases the kids down themselves and threatens to kill them all. Kari volunteers to be the first to go^note the original effort post makes a big deal of her being sick; she's actually over being sick at this point, and it's not like how sick the child you plan to kill counts against you and he promises to make her death as painful as he can. The Numemon intervene and Machinedramon kills them all. He and WarGreymon then engage in a brief battle and Machinedramon dies. He's subsequently resurrected in Digimon Tri serving Dark!Gennai in the fourth film, "Loss." He makes another effort to run down and kill the Digidestined on Gennai's behalf, never speaking the entire time. He's then killed again by Seraphmon, Phoenixmon, and HerculesKabuterimon.

Are his actions heinous by the standards of the show?

Without the stuff as Millenniummon? I can't say that I think so. Most of his actions are shared with the other Dark Masters to one extent or another, and when you look at the specifics of things he did by himself, he's got stiff competition. Let's go down the list:

1. Threatening to kill Kari? All the villainous Digimon are trying to kill the kids, and plenty (particularly Piedmon) came a lot closer. Myotismon, for the record, made killing Kari his entire raison d'etre. His whole arc was about his efforts to enter the real world, track down Kari, and kill her before she could become a Digidestined. At least Machinedramon was threatening to murder someone who was actually a danger to him.

2. Threatening to kill her as painfully as possible? Piedmon orders LadyDevimon to do the same to all the Digidestined. Not to mention—it's a detail-less threat.

3. Being a Bad Boss to WaruMonzaemon and the rest of his troops? Puppetmon murdered Cherrymon for giving him advice he didn't like. Devimon enslaved his associates via Black Gears and "Touch of Evil." MetalSeadramon executes Scoriopmon for failure. And Myotismon is the single worst boss in the entire show, torturing DemiDevimon and Gatomon (and brainwashing the latter), killing Pumpinmon and Gotsumon for bailing on him, and devouring all of his henchmen in order to achieve his final form (and that's just in Adventure 1, in Adventure 2 he goes onto kill more of his employees).

4. Enslaving and killing all the Numemon. This is probably Machinedramon's standout crime. That said, he's still got competition when it comes to ratcheting up the body count. The Dark Masters as a group killed Piximon. MetalEtamon killed Leomon. MetalSeadramon killed Whamon. And Myotismon's invasion of the surface world left a sizeable number of humans dead—between the girls he drains blood from, and those killed during his rampage and those of his Digimon he rivals Machinedramon on this front despite being notably less powerful (the dub, of course, tries to pretend that no one was killed, but while it has human reporters say the girls just have anemia and that no one was killed during any of the battles, it forgets to delete the footage of bodybags going into ambulances).

As for the question of how he stacks powerwise, Machinedramon is probably Second Among Equals within the Dark Masters, and therefore, the third strongest villain in the show after Piedmon (strongest Dark Master) and Apocalymon himself.^note The original post tries to claim that Machinedramon is weaker than Myotismon's final form of VenomMyotismon but this is untrue, and Myotismon did most of his damage while in his base form

Any redeeming qualities?

None.

Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

Piedmon does state that Machinedramon is designed only for total annihilation. If you want to interpret that as a statement about his moral agency, you can do so.

Final verdict?

Severed from Millenniummon, Machinedramon looks a lot less heinous, and the original post exaggerated a number of his crimes, and created implied crimes (like assuming he destroyed his own army when he leveled the city, even though we don't see this). Most of his major crimes are shared with his four compatriots, and his individual crimes, while noteworthy, don't make him stand out from the crowd in any real way. You could argue him up on the basis of his enslaving and killing the Numemon, but even then, he's only the third worst villain on the show, with both Piedmon and Myotismon edging him out, and while you can make the case Piedmon is stronger than he is, Myotismon isn't.

Something else we also need to consider here is that Digimon Adventure 1 is in canon with Digimon Adventure 2. Which means Machinedramon has to stack with all the things Ken pulled in his Digimon Emperor phase, all the things that various other arc villains did in that show, and of course, all the stuff Myotismon does after returning as MaloMyotismon. He'll also have to stack with anyone who may emerge from the Digimon Tri discussion that we'll be having sometime shortly.

I personally do not think he counts. That said, I do concur you could make the case, based on his killing of all the Numemon. If we were to do that, his entry would need a significant rewrite, not only to remove the Millenniummon stuff, but to put the emphasis where it should be.

I vote cut, but what say we all?

edited 2nd May '18 9:46:43 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

to Lighty's McKidds duo.

So one of my theater managers recommended this series to me, and I decided to check it out, thinking that there might be some candidates (and since it looked interesting).

What Is the Work?

Red Riding is a 2009 British trilogy of TV movies (based on the Quartet novel series by David Peace) aired on Channel 4. The series is composed of 1974, 1980, and 1983. I highly recommend this trilogy, as it’s filled with gruesome murders, twisted themes, disturbing imagery, and English accents so thick, you need subtitles to understand them.

Set in the three districts/ridings of Yorkshire, the trilogy tells the tale of a series of child kidnappings and murders based on the Yorkshire Ripper murders. Despite the famous real life killer making an appearance in 1980, the characters and events are all fictional. It’s up to various reporters and a few kind-hearted cops to solve this case, one that spans 9 years. Unfortunately, the police are extremely corrupt, and will do anything to prevent the truth from leaking out to the public.

Just a fair warning, I’ll be spoiling this series rotten, so if you ever want to see it, turn back now.

Who Is he?

Reverend Martin Laws, aka “The Wolf,” is the leader of a child sex & murder ring, and the main antagonist of the whole trilogy.

What has he done?

He works with the West Yorkshire Constabulary (WYC) to cover up his practices, including Detective Superintendent Maurice Jobson (played by David Morrissey), with some other policemen having to murder or torture those who come close to knowing. He has his men kidnap kids and take them to his underground club located under a pigeon coop, which is comprised of several businessmen (one we’ll get to later) and policemen. Once the kids are fucked, tortured, and murdered, they have swan wings sewed to their backs and are placed in various locations, framing a mentally retarded man named Michael Myshkin for the murders (since he knew about Laws’ real motives). One of the kids—the first one ever captured in fact—was BJ, a young gay boy who would eventually grow up to be a prostitute (Laws described him as "the one who got away."). He has done this to dozens and dozens of children, which we see via large amounts of pictures containing the corpses and the children prior their deaths.

Throughout the trilogy, Laws presents himself as a kindhearted fellow, one who helps people with their problems. As stated above, he’s the exact opposite. He even keeps photos of the little girls and boys he murdered. In 1983, he has a young girl name Hazel Atkins kidnapped, framing a man named Leonard Cole, who found the swan-stitched victim back in 1974 that started that movie’s plot; Cole is then killed by the police while in custody.

At the end of 1983 when the now adult BJ confronts Laws with a shotgun at his house, Laws coerces him into giving it to him, using his domineering influence to get him on his knees and tell him that everything’s going to be okay. He does this as he pulls out a power drill to use on BJ. He’s thankfully interrupted by a now heroic DS Jobson, who shoots him three times with his shotgun, killing the bastard for good.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. He has a wife, but he’s never shown having any true affection for her, and she isn’t seen often. And unlike the Yorkshire Ripper, who’s mentally ill and unstable, Laws is clearly aware of what he’s doing.

Heinousness?

As the main villain, he’s easily the worst figure. While DS Jobson helped him with his plans, he later develops a conscience in 1983 and later tries to stop him.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep. I’ll be proposing one more candidate from this trilogy.

edited 2nd May '18 9:39:49 PM by therealjackieboy

to Reverend Laws. Though I honestly think the corrupt cop should have gotten some jail time for all the other hell he put the kids through.

Cut Machinedramon, yes to Laws

edited 2nd May '18 9:45:37 PM by 43110

The difference with the dub is upon learning Kari is very ill, Machinedramon intentionally does his best to make sure there's no way for her to recover by blowing up all the hospitals/etc. Or trying to, at least. That's not in the subs. This isn't the same thing as "regularly trying to defeat the heroes". It's targeting someone who can't defend themselves and to make them suffer overall. That's his goal.

I can't say this honestly makes him heinous enough, though. Just that it's a unique crime to him. The other villains in 01 don't do any of this in particular either. Though yeah, I can see how the rest easily outheinous him in other ways. He just has one major point that makes him stand out. Possibly not enough, though.

Machinedramon. I was always dubious of it honestly.

The Wolf

Also, the line of "Brainwashed!Kamoshida was still evil because he tried to kill himself to avoid justice" is still on his entry on Shin Megami Tensei.

Where we're gonna delete it? We agreed that the scene actually showed the Brainwashed Kamoshida feeling guilt, Kamoshida still counts of course, but his Brainwashed Self wanted kill himself out of guilt for his crimes, in a scene where he's played with some sympathy.

Ann still hates him and Accentuate the Negative but we shouldn't be judging him from her personal perspective.

PD: I am still akward by having a ephebophile teacher here in the same game that let the male teenage MC date his own teacher.

edited 2nd May '18 10:02:47 PM by KazuyaProta

No, he doesn't. He blows up all the hospitals because he thinks the kids are in a hospital. I just watched the episode today. There's no "let's make her linger and die," or anything like that. He's told the kids are searching for hospitals, and he blows up all the hospitals.

He doesn't even know which of the kids is sick, or hell, that one of the kids is sick when he gives the order. It's not until an episode later that he even interacts with the kids directly.

And I don't know why people are trying to act like Kari's a cancer patient. She's got heatstroke. Tai and Izzy's search for medication? The medication in question is Aspirin.

edited 2nd May '18 9:59:13 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar