During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Expect for the beginings and dialogues, the paths are completely indentical.
The Unknown Unknown
Playing catchup...
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Patrick, Lillith, Minatsuki, and Flide.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Feng.
Happy B-Day, Miraculous. One year closer to a long, fulfilling life.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Happy birthday, Miraculous!
Oh, as a comment on Showgirls... yeah, wise choice because that's the sort of artless garbage we avoid here. I can understand Irreversible (nauseating a movie as it may be) but trying to propose someone from Showgirls is like unironically trying to propose from Troll 2.
Call me... Del Noir...
Happy birthday, Miraculous!
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Gentle Laborer
Happy birthday miraculous 
. Writeup for Patrick:
Patrick is a sociopathic teenager who becomes fascinated by the concept of death. Having been allowed to participate in Scott's suicide plan, Patrick is introduced to the audience as being a perverted, racist, and aggressive high-schooler. Following his run-in with local bully Tyrone, Patrick compiles a list of all the students he will kill before he commits suicide, including an innocent religious girl and an obese student, calling him a "greedy pig". Inside a supermarket, Patrick brings a nine-year-old girl to the bathroom, rapes, and murders her, filming the whole event, which lasted for one hour. When his friends confront him for killing a child, he simply eats chips like nothing had ever happened. The next day, Patrick brings a gun to school and begins shooting students, asking a girl if she believes in God, and killing her when she says "yes". Holding Tyrone at gunpoint, Patrick shoots Scott for interfering and then kills Tyrone, before finally ending his own life. A hateful and amoral young man, Patrick ultimately believed that if he did not fear death, then he was permitted to do whatever he wished to other people.
YOU DARE INSULT THE FILM THAT GAVE US THIS INSIGHT INTO THE HUMAN CONDITION:
"Man, everybody got AIDS and shit."
Happy Birthday miraculous
I wasn't trying to compare Irreversible and Showgirls, I was just saying there was a character who did something similar.
V
Patrick. Seems like a very interesting candidate, I gotta say. Happy b-day, Miraculous!
Did you think I was done with Wallander? Hahahahaha! No, almost. But, I've got some more. I can officially say that I have seen every single Wallander episode, and it cost alot of money. It was worth it, however. Now I feel kind of empty, knowing that I have seen it all, and there won't be anymore. But, everything has an end.
What is the Work?
Since you know what Wallander is at this point, I'm just gonna get straight to the episode. This episode is by far one of the most disturbing ones in the series, it is about a container lorry filled with dead immigrants in it. Nine, to be more specific. It also includes one near dead, but still alive baby. The asshole who did thi- oh, btw, the episode is named "Täckmanteln", "The Container Lorry". The asshole who did this?
Who is this man? What does this man do?
"Hosse", which isn't his real name by the way, is a cruel and almost ghost-like drug dealer who Stefan Lindman, one of the policemen, describes as an "unpleasant type", which says something. If you search on Google "Wallander - Täckmanteln" and go to the images, you'll see the DVD cover. That guy holding that woman at gunpoint? That's Hosse.
After the police discover that the nine dead immigrants all where a way of smuggling drugs and covering it up by making it look like an accident, Wallander suggest they keep it a secret so that the drug dealers don't get a chance to change plans. It is now they start getting names, and an illegal club owner named Oskar Oskarsson, I know, hilarious name, talks about Hosse. Hosse apparently had a blazer with a lapel pin on it when the two met, and later in the movie a flashback scene is shown with Hosse and Oskar where they... talk.
It's the climax where his body count becomes huge, though. When Hosse is driving another truck with a container lorry, again with a bunch of immigrants in order to deal the drugs, one of his associates has explained to Wallander and the police team that she can help them by spying on Hosse while he is driving the truck. She does this, but it goes insanely wrong. You see, Hosse isn't stupid, so he notices that she is just spying on him to betray him. He puts her into his car, and demands her to sit down inside the truck so that the police doesn't see her with him, or else he'll kill her. Once Hosse has finally went through the customs station, and he states himself that he had alot of luck going through it, he starts threatening to kill Karin (his associate who works on the station, you know, who he previously threatened at the station). After abusing her for a while, she desperately asks what he'll do with the immigrants. He says with a finnish accent, and I quote: "I'LL KILL THEM OF COURSE! WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY EVEN DOING IN SWEDEN? SATANA!", which is incredibly hammy and in the process becomes unintenionally Laughably Evil. Basically, he pulls a Steele-type thing where he simply doesn't give a shit about the immigrants dying, and like that 7-8 other immigrants just kinda die. Luckily, the police manage to come last second and save the day. Unfortunately for them, saving lives requires some lives to be taken. Just to provoke, after realizing that he's gonna die eitherway, Hosse stops hiding behind the truck and grabs Karin. He holds her viciously at gunpoint, but instead of just letting go and accepting death, he kills her in front of the police and then gets killed.
Hosse's overall body count is around 15-16, which is among the highest in the entire series. Hector Ussi comes at first place with like 20-something, and Belker comes at second place with a much more unclear attempted body count.
Mitigating Factors
Nope. The only reason he at first seems affable is because he's scared of Oskar and his right-hand due to how much power they have, and it's clear that he doesn't care about his associates, seeing how he treated Karin. Especially at the end where he kills her.
Heinousness
As I've said, Hosse has a huge body count and among the biggest in the entire series, which is especially impressive when looking at his screen time.
Conclusion
You're supposed to vote.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Belker seems like he kills more, which is my only hesitation (Rolf's the only pedophile, while Heinrich and the duo are in a separate continuity).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Filde, Hosse, Lilith and Minatsuki
Any more votes on Ameh-Tet?
V
Belker appears in the middle of season 2, while Hosse appears in late season 1. In season 1, there are around three villains or so who kill more than three people, so yeah Hosse had a high body count even in season 1.
Also, Roffe isn't the only pedophile, he's the only pedophile who kills more than two people and has no redeeming qualities.
Also Ameh-tet.
edited 19th Mar '18 2:15:34 PM by MenInGreyToBlak
Ameh-Tet
Hosse looks like a yes
So while we're on characters I think need cuts I'd like to submit one of my own former candidates: Daniel Patterson from Cold Case. Though I was the one who put him up I've been thinking about this ever since Ernesto de la Cruz was turned down for not passing the baseline, because Patterson is honestly a very similar character: they're both celebrated artists who murder a loved one (wife/best friend) out of jealousy that that person's skill at their art (poetry/music) surpasses their own, while maintaining a facade of outward care to them, and they abuse a child relative of their victim (daughter/great-great-grandson) to prevent the truth from being revealed. If anything, Ernesto's worse because he actually tried to kill Miguel, while Patterson simply settled for shipping his stepdaughter off to a Boarding School of Horrors. If Ernesto flunked the baseline even in a work with no other villains, I don't see how Patterson passes in a show full of murderers.
And that goes double when you consider resources: Patterson is a wealthy, successful writer, yes he's surpassed in victim count by - and this is just from the CM list - a quiet, unassuming photography studio assistant (Smith), an inner-city social worker (Freely), a stay-at-home mom (Leland), and a lazy, unemployed slob that hardly ever leaves his gross apartment (Larkin). I don't see how he can still measure up.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm still abstaining on Hosse. Just because he was early doesn't mean he can't get out-heinoused later on.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Hosse the Ho
And yes to Hosse.
Hosse.
Wild Child
Hosse, and I agree that Daniel Patterson should be cut.
Work: Sol divide-sword of darkness is a horizontal hack&slash shooter developed by Psikyo for Arcade, PS 1 and Saturn.
The game allows you to play as three characters: Vorg- a dark warrior, who wants to kill Ifter for destroying his homeland seven years before start of story, Kashon- a birdman from village Nephetai, Tyora- a wizard and creator of the sacred stones that can be used to resurrect evil god Heradius.
Ifter(Vorg and Kashon)
Ifter is an evil king and wielder of titular sword. Seven years prior, he destroyed Vorg's homeland. Wanting to become invincible/resurrect Heradius, Ifter attacks castle Silvern/Nephetai a birdmen's village, in search for the sacred stones. During the attack on Nephetai, he kills Kashon's father.
After taking a sacred stone, Iftar attacks cities Mattium and Pundione.
Encountered by the hero in Mattium, he blows up the whole city before leaving the hero.
Heradius(Tyora)
All this including possesing Ifret.
Heinousness.
Big Bad sets it.
Mitigating factor.
While in Tyora's path is obvious that he is possesed by Heradius, it isn't obvious in Vorg's and Kashon's paths. He is maybe possesed in Kashon's path, but in Vorg's path, Heradius is never mentioned.
Conclusion.
Decide yourselves.
Well, first off, easy no to Ifter. Just because only one path spells out that he's possessed makes it way too likely he is in the others' as well. As for Heradius, how much characterization does he receive?
Edit: Also gonna concur that Patterson sounds like a cut.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Uh... I think we got that you're abstaining the last two times you said so.
edited 19th Mar '18 3:55:58 PM by 43110
