Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Out of context, I'm not sure that Shaw image works.

So? Are we okay with splitting Monster.Film A To E to Monster.Film A To C and Monster.Film D To E? I just want a simple yes/no answer.

I'm personally fine with splitting the pages.

How about this image for Donald Pierce?

edited 10th Jan '18 8:09:08 AM by MenInGreyToBlak

I don't think either of those work. I've seen both movies, but out of context it's just "guy does glowy thing to other guy" and "guy points gun at other guy".

(If they show up really tiny for anyone else, just remove everything after .png/.jpg in the URL.)

Also, to the demon and to Angela.

edited 10th Jan '18 8:18:28 AM by LordXavius

Alright, I'll split it, though it seems doing Monster.Film A To B and Monster.Film C To E feels more appropriate, the A-C folder is huge.

But that's the thing with most images? Look at this image.◊ Out of context, the only thing someone will see is "guy with smug smile shoots random guy". So I don't see at all how my image of Pierce is any different.

Hold off on the split. I did some calculations; I figured out a way to get it to 4 pages for film; it's just the A-E or whatever is SO much bigger than the rest. #-C can all go together.

edited 10th Jan '18 8:24:59 AM by ACW

Ah dang it, already done. Sorry for rushing. It was inevitable, though...

edited 10th Jan '18 8:25:26 AM by Piterpicher

Eh, no worries. Just cutlist them. I HOPE to do it tomorrow or Friday. I'm gonna be busy this weekend (the films, Milestone Comics, working on the DC stuff, and the usual batch).

edited 10th Jan '18 8:30:38 AM by ACW

That pic does a much better job of establishing its context, though. I'm not sure where it's from (Schindler's List?), but it's immediately obvious that it features a Nazi heartlessly executing an unarmed victim (and if you know anything about the Holocaust you know what his "piece of flair" signifies). The picture of Pierce? For all someone unfamiliar with the film knows the guy with the gun might as well be a hero threatening a villain, and unlike the Nazi he's not even firing his pistol.

Angela, and a more cautious to the demon as well since it sounds like he doesn't really care about his race.

Cautious Sho'Tokh (slightly worried about heinousness, but I think he's JUST unique enough).

Demon and Angela.

'Yes' to Sho'Tokh, the Demon, and Angela.

@MenInGrayToBlack: If you could find a pic of Pierce holding Richter (The boy at the end) at gunpoint, that could work well, I think. Pierce has got a huge grin on his face and has a gun pointing at a child's head, so that screams "Image Link for Complete Monster" to me.

edited 10th Jan '18 9:29:22 AM by Ravok

It's Rictor, FYI (I looked it up).

edited 10th Jan '18 9:42:05 AM by ACW

Angela.

Here's another candidate from The Last Bucelarii. Expect some more later on today.

What Is the Work?

Lament of the Fallen, the second book in the series. In this book, Hunter tries to find his missing past, where he stumbles upon the town of Malandria, a nice town with a shady secret: They are being controlled by the Order of Midas, an evil wizard group who kidnap people after dark and torture them, later sucking their souls. Today, we’ll be looking at the leader of this dastardly group.

Who Is he?

Lord Toramin, aka The Demon of Malandria, is the sociopathic leader of the Order of Midas, part of the Big Bad Duumvirate along with Garanis, (with Sage and Warmaster never being seen yet) and an Abiarazi, being an Expy of the DoV from the first book.

What has he done?

Toramin, once being a servant to the lowest ranking Abiarazi commander, is tasked by Warmaster and Sage to unleash Kharna and take over the world (of course!) by stealing souls to release Kharna. Taking advantage of the crapsack state Malandria’s in, he gathers merchants who want change in their town by offering them money and control over the city. He establishes the Order of Midas as a mysterious group of “wizards” (actually just a bunch of normal humans who used an Illusionist to make them look like they have powers) that roam around the town at night using their “powers” to instill fear among the town, such as sending out wolves and creepy fog. When people are captured, they are either tortured and have their souls taken from them, or placed in a deadly maze where they must find their freedom or get burned alive by a mechanical flamethrower contraption, and even if they do make it out, they might still get killed by various traps such as poisonous flowers; and the exit leads to the Order's sacrifice room, where they will be sacrificed. According to Toramin, the maze, having been around for a century, was used to instill more fear into the town’s people, finding scared human souls working better in freeing Kharna than normal souls. He’s also a Bad Boss, killing any members who disobey him (“have you already forgotten Yoldu?”).

In the past, when he first arrived in Malandia and started the Order, he and his minions led a purge of all the Cleric Illusionists (priests) in town who weren’t noble to them, and stole all their souls in a dark ritual, claiming that their religious orders were a threat to their power. He has the poor confined to a single alleyway called The Wretch Hole, where they end up being the most captured targets, mainly so the Order can “clean the streets.” He uses his co-partner, fellow Abiarazi Garanis, to search for the perfect sacrifice victim located in the Wretch Hole. Near the climax, the Order kidnaps Hunter’s new friend, Bardin, a homeless person.

When Hunter finally sees the Order, Toramin is giving a speech to them about how they’re using souls in order to prolong their reign of Malandria (lies, since he’s just using souls to free Kharna), using Bardin as a sacrifice. When he finds Hunter watching them, he’s ecstatic to see him, having heard of his history in Voramis, and offers him to join him, with him threatening to kill Bardin if he refuses. While negotiating, he reveals his demonic self to the Order, who now fear him. When Hunter decides to join, Toramin lets Bardin go, kills an Order member when he begins to question who Toramin really is, and then tells the Order that he has no use for them now that Hunter’s by his side and that he’s going to kill them all. With Hunter at his command, he plans to go out on the streets and slaughter all in his path using his soul-stealing knife.

When Hunter talks sense into Toramin, he kills Bardin in front of Hunter out of anger, promising him that he will kill everyone he loves. Deciding that it’s not worth it anymore, Toramin tries to absorb Hunter’s soul, knowing that it will finally release Kharna once and for all.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. He sees Hunter as an asset to his goal of global domination, and the key to Kharna. And while he claims to be doing good for the homeless, he’s still willing to kill them and steal their souls in order to cleanse the town of filth. He also kept the homeless shelter housing Beggar Priests alive, though it feels like it was meant to fool the Order into thinking that he’s a nice person who believes in their cause.

The other members of the Order, while delusional Knight Templars, aren’t treated as bad, with Hunter sparing them, thinking that leaving them alive to suffer the consequences is worse than straight up murdering them (while Toramin was the only one who was murdered via his own soul-sucking blade), and offers them advice on how to make Malandria a better place.

Heinousness?

He has a body count in the thousands (with loads of corpses being shown down in the maze, some being children, and ghosts of his victims show up on occasion), and is the worse “person” in the story, with his list of crimes and goals being on par with the DoV. What DoV has in sadism, Toramin has in sociopathy. Hunter also really despises him for taking Bardin away from him, and for what he did to Malandria and its people. Toramin also started out small, while DoV started out as a standard soldier.

Compared to other Abiarazi in the series, Toramin stands out as being more of a sociopath who’s Faux Affably Evil with a higher body count. While Warmaster and Sage tasked him to bring back Kharna, they didn’t say how to bring him back, so everything was Toramin’s idea.

His co-partner Garanis, despite his position as an Abiarazi spy hiding under the Beggar Priests, doesn’t count, since his body count is nothing compared to Toramin, and his actions don’t get a lot of screen time, with Toramin's plans at least taking up 2/3 of the book.

Conclusion

I think he counts. In the end, Toramin is just a smug elitist who lies to merchants looking to improve their city in order to accomplish his dastardly goals.

edited 10th Jan '18 10:22:07 AM by therealjackieboy

Toramin

How many villains are we talking about from this series ?

edited 10th Jan '18 10:18:56 AM by miraculous

1-2 more. The third book definitely has a contender, but there might be another one from that same book that I want to effortpost just in case he also counted.

edited 10th Jan '18 10:27:33 AM by therealjackieboy

To the Demon, Toramin and Angela.

@ ACW, fair enough, but remember there different Star Trek universes with different heinous standards: The Prime Universe, the Kelvin Universe (which is kinda like the Star Trek Ultimate Universe), the Mirror Universe and some small one shot universes that may pop up, now and again. Sho'Tokh is from the Kelvin Universe, which has less material and way less competition, most of the other villains I proposed were from the Prime Universe, expect for future Gul Dukat from the comics. Less competition gives Sho'Tokh more of a chance to stand out.

I know there are a fair amount Star Trek novels and comics that deal with the mirror universe (I read some old DC comics where Mirror! Kirk tried to invade the Prime Universe). Characters from the Mirror Universe may be interesting to discuss, but given how screwed up the mirror universe is in general, I wonder how much it will take to stand out in that universe.

Edit: plus there are a ton of Star Trek villains who do not come close the heinous standard, I do not think we have found a villain who counts in the Voyager show, because your average Voyager villain is painfully generic.

I would also argue the average Star Trek empire is not as bad the Galatic Empire, most Star Trek universe governments signed a treaty outlawing biological weapons and generally blowing up planets is seen as unacceptable. That makes really nasty empires like the Dominion and Terran Empire stand out, though the Cardassian Union has some nasty momemts. I do think killing all the children on a planet is unique crime in Star Trek.

edited 10th Jan '18 11:27:04 AM by Overlord

Angela and Toramin

Toramin. What happens to him?

While fighting him, Hunter takes Toramin's soul-sucking knife, jams it into him, and uses it to suck his soul, which is a double whammy because, while Toramin's dead, that also means Kharna's one step closer to being released.

edited 10th Jan '18 11:25:31 AM by therealjackieboy

Hello Thanatos Gambit.

Alrighty, candidate time. So, not a very story heavy game, but...

What's the Work?

The 2016 remake of Shadow of the Beast is a dark fantasy game. 'The Beast,' a savage monster in service to the dark lord Maletoth, Tormentor of Souls, Destroyer of Worlds, has enacted its master's dark will for some time under the leash of Maletoth's right-hand mage Zeleth. Then, one day, on a violent purge of enemies, the Beast is stained with the blood of its last victim...and realizes this is the Beast's own father. The Beast's true name is Aarbron, kidnapped as a baby and transformed into a monster. Freed by his father's Heroic Sacrifice, Arbron sets out for answers, revenge and possibly an end to his curse as The Beast.

What's He Done?

As revealed in the cutscenes? Maletoth is a powerful mage who reigns over a group of other mages, including Zeleth. In order to gain great power, Maletoth crafted ways to...bind the souls of the dead to him, entrapping them in horrible torment to leech off their powers. Unsatisfied with this level of level, Maletoth raised his armies and began to attack entire worlds, conquering an destroying them to enslave the souls there as well. When he learned of Aarbron, having killed most of Aarbron's family in the wars of conquest, Maletoth kidnapped the baby and bound a thousand souls to it in torment to create The Beast as his finest weapon. Using the Beast, Maletoth sent it against more and more of his enemies and conquests while Aarbron just massacred everything in his way until Maletoth learned of a second special baby, the seventh son of a seventh son, who could be a new Beast. Deciding he wanted a second, he sent Aarbron to get the second kid, resulting in Aarbron slaughtering the baby's guardians, including his own father.

Now freed, Aarbron hunted and killed Zeleth for information. Realizing that Aarbron was loose, Maletoth freaked and sent everything he had after Aarbron who kept tearing through his forces, and freeing souls Maletoth kept enslaved. Finally, the two faced off and Maletoth was defeated, leading to Multiple Endings. In the one most likely to be canon, Aarbron frees the souls Maletoth enslaved, destroying his magic devices to allow the souls of Maletoth's victims to drag him to the netherworld for Maletoth's final, horrible reward....with a Sequel Hook that Maletoth's servants turn the other baby into a new beast to set against Aarbron as he learns members of his family who may lift his curse still live.

Heinousness?

Sets it. Well above the baseline.

Mitigating Qualities?

Here's the weird part. Maletoth gets enough character through the cutscenes and dialogue. The issue is...the other endings? In one of them, Aarbron kills him and assumes control of his empire, where it is declared "Now Aarbron, not Maletoth, would decide the fate of worlds"...but the third ending? Maletoth begs for his life and promises to make Aarbron human again. If Aarbron agrees, Maleoth does so and lets him go. This is a bit...weird, but Aarbron seems completely at a loss of what to do with his new humanity, and Maletoth is also completely terrified of the Beast. I'm not sure an end of very dubious canonicity here (since Maletoth pulls out all the stops to kill Aarbron before this) should be a major factor, but wanted to mention it regardless.

Conclusion?

I'd say keep him. That one ending aside, Maletoth is a brutal tyrant who enslaves countless souls in agony and has a ton of blood on his hands. He's defined as being a power-hungry, sadistic sorcerer whose only goal is complete conquest and power, while being willing to turn babies into monsters and set them against their own worlds.

I'd like to propose an example of this YMMV item.

What's the work?

The Divine Comedy details the travels of a pilgrim who has lost his way in life through the three Christian afterlives. The afterlives are Hell, where thousands of people who have become awful, self-torturing monsters forever, Purgatory, where sinners who must spend centuries enduring spiritual exercises in order to enter the third afterlife, and Heaven, where humans and angels are immortal, perfect, and endlessly happy. Originally all of creation was a part of Heaven, but Hell and Purgatory had to be created all thanks to this Complete Monster,

Who is he?

Dis, also known as Satan or Lucifer. Dis was once "the highest of all creatures," a seraphim-angel who was given more by the Love Known as God than anyone else. Eventually, despite being gifted with a greater proximity to the Highest Joy than anything in creation, Dis became "the first proud being" and led an anti-God rebellion that the denizens of Hell call Dis's "arrogant rape" of Heaven, resulting in his fall from grace. (Paradiso, XIX.46-47).

What has he done?

Originally, the world was an ever-lasting, deathless world where all of creation was so joyous that a smile from the lowest angel would communicate happiness so great a modern person would be incinerated by it (Paradiso Canto 12, Lines 5-11). So, how did death, corruption, and evil come into a paradise so pure? Well, there's no one to blame but Lucifer, the seraphim who was given more knowledge, power, love, and joy by the Highest Joy than anything else in existence.
In betraying the Highest Joy, Dis created the eternal torture chamber known as Hell, and became the direct "source of all sorrows," infernal and Earthly. These sorrows include the deaths of all infants seen in Limbo, the rivers of blood spilt by the murderers of the Phlegethonn, and exploitation of all the women who had the misfortune of meeting the pimps and rapists of the Malebolge.
In short, Dis brought evil, pain, and death into a perfect, eternally joyful universe.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Nope, unlike the Devil from Paradise Lost, Dis has no grandiose speeches trying to justify rebellion against God (also called the Highest Joy). He also isn't Made of Evil, explicitly being a free angel who choose to become the Devil.

Heinousness?

As the one closest to God, Lucifer had more knowledge than any creature who existed before or after that point and thus knew that all joy came from closeness with Him. Despite this, Lucifer led the angels who trusted him (and soon after, Adam and Eve) to reject the source of all their happiness and accept an eternity of suffering and torture.
So why, why did Lucifer corrupt the angels to die and then do the same thing to the humans once God began loving them into reality? Why did Lucifer turn a world with happiness beyond description into one where there are enough suicides to fill a forest and fathers are forced to eat the corpses of their children? The answer: simple pride. Lucifer "through abasement of another, hopes for supremacy; he only longs to see his neighbor’s excellence cast down" (Purgatory Canto 17, 115-117).
Dante's Devil loves nothing but himself. For the sake of his own supremacy, Lucifer's every moment is spent defiling the rest of the universe. For the sake of his own ego, Satan spent 9000 turning humanity into a civilization of murderers, liars, and traitors in the vain hope that he could call himself superior to his victims. For pride alone, Dis created an empire of pain and never had a single regret.

Final Verdict

Dis has every evil associated with Satan associated with him and illustrated in detail, with no sight of any of the sympathetic characteristics found in Paradise Lost. Definite keep.

edited 10th Jan '18 11:39:04 AM by DustSnitch