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Okay, I'm not sure where this came from since Sayu hasn't been mentioned for a few pages but okay.

He considers killing Sayu, dismisses it out of selfish pragmatic concerns, but is never actually put into a position where he actually would have to go through with killing one of his own family. People probably get the idea that he loves her from Word of God in How to Read(I'm acknowledging that this really is just trivia rather than evidence). The relevant part is:

"Light's Relationships with the Opposite Sex During college he had about five or six girlfriends, some being merely camouflage. He's likely not capable of loving a woman. This is probably because he looks down on everyone. He does posses love for his family and for humanity as a whole, however. He also had many friends."

Also from How to Read;

"[When discussing why Sayu was kidnapped rather than Misa (because Light would have just killed Misa since in his eyes she's just a murderer)] Light loves his family and wants his new world to only have kind people in it. Although his desire to be godlike is warped, he's just trying to make the world a better place."

As for his father, having read past that point Light didn't plan for him to be the one to take the notebook, shows mental hesitation at the thought he might have to kill his own father, and to his credit setup the plan so that using the Death Note would have been the last resort. He does try and get his father to kill Mello with the Death Note but in Light's defence his own life is constantly in danger as long as Mello is alive. It's stretching it a bit to classify all of Light's actions as self-defence, but he is in a situation where he will die if caught.

Also one thing that really makes me oppose efforts to list anyone as a CM is that when you look at it all of the main characters (Light, L, Mello, Near, Mikami) are bad people; the "heroes" of that lot still kidnap, torture and recklessly endanger others, the villains do horrible things for well-intentioned reasons, and the most moral characters (namely Light's father) are barely players in the game. But I'll do more on that once I actually finish the manga.

In that regard, Dickson and Light are very similar. Both want to become gods of their respective world. Both will jump off the slippery slope to achieve their goals. And both use everyone around them, especially their "allies" and former friends. (Dickson used Shulk, Dunban, and all the races of Bionis while Light used his father, his sister, and L to an extent.)

Light is anything but a WIE, and I can't fathom why anyone would think he was one. If Light was truly a good person (as stated before) he would have stopped using the Death Note as soon as he used it. The Death Note only corrupts those with evil in their hearts (to my knowledge) so even in the early chapters, Light was still filled with evil. He even states in the anime (and I think the manga too) "This is what I've always wanted." which implies he was planning to become a god of the world even before he got the Death Note.

I'd have to read the manga again, but I'm pretty sure Light not only doesn't care for his family, but treats them as disposable. He didn't feel the least bit upset when his father died, or when his sister was in the hospital. He just felt "If she dies, the police will be able to figure out that I'm Kira."

There's a lengthy discussion on both sides in the Alternative Character Interpretation section of Death Note. I could post some of the arguments here if anyone's interested.

Light is a textbook example of a high functioning Sociopath. I could compare him to Muruta Azrael and Djibril from the Cosmic Era of Gundam in that they all think very highly of themselves, they want to wipe out a fraction of humanity, and rule a "perfect" world.

edited 20th Feb '15 3:10:28 PM by Klavice

The issue is Light doesn't care at all about his father. He only hesitates in murdering his family when it's tense because of issues with his cover. Light's internal thoughts show him calling his father an idiot, actively gauging "Hmmm, should sad should I look that he's dying so I can get a final use out of him" and then he promptly forgets the man next chapter. This was brought up by the claims "Light never goes through with killing his family" when he flat out says without a hint of hesitation "I'll kill Sayu...wait, no, that'll expose me as Kira."

He's in a situation where he'll die if he's caught that is entirely his fault. If a man kills a ton of people and risks execution if he's caught, you don't cut him slack for murdering more people to keep himself free.

And really, the idea that the heroes are so gray as to skew the heinous standard? No, absolutely not. The most we get is L kidnapping Misa and giving her some light rough treatment. As Misa is a mass murdering serial killer fangirl, my reaction in the manga when people called this a bad thing was "cry me a fucking river that the mass murderer who killed a few of L's team the other night is tied up and blinded for a little bit."

The heroes do not commit mass murder. They do not force a woman devoted to them to burn herself alive, they do not use the lives of people as sick experiments to test out their new Death Note toys, they do not gloat over their victims as they force them to commit suicide after having destroyed them mentally...kidnap and reckless endangerment in the pursuit of stopping a mass murderer doesn't make you as bad as said murderer.

I also do not believe Light is well intentioned at all. He is driven entirely by sociopathic ego and a desire to be God of the new world. Everything flows right from that.

Just all the main people being 'bad people' doesn't mean much. he heinous standard still skews massively with Light being the nastiest, worst and most vile villain with by far the worst actions.

And if the writers wanted it to be shown that Light loved his family or really wanted a better world? They failed as hard at that as they did with not injecting a ton of misogyny into the work.

edited 20th Feb '15 3:51:53 PM by Lightysnake

I'm going to give Foster and Corey both 's. Also Lighty, the new The Town That Dreaded Sundown is supposed to be a pseudo sequel to the original, so what would you say about the original Phantom Killer ?

Also, today I got The Book of Life on DVD. Tomorrow I'll check in if there's any potential candidates.

It's hard to call it a pseudo-sequel as it's not set in that 'fictional-verse', but the original 1970s movie exists in the film and is shown yearly which is what happens in Texarkana anyways.

The Phantom himself in the original could count, but we know basically nothing about him beyond that he's Ax-Crazy. He stalks, murders 5 people and then vanishes into the swamp as the police pursue him, never to be seen again.

Having seen The Book of Life, I can say that no one qualifies.

RE Light, I'm mostly in agreement with Lightysnake and would hesitate at putting too much stock in Word of God, as the author's commentary doesn't seem to be reflected in the work itself.

@ Klavice

"'Light is anything but a WIE, and I can't fathom why anyone would think he was one. If Light was truly a good person (as stated before) he would have stopped using the Death Note as soon as he used it."

That is an incredibly simplistic view of morality, and by that definition every hero who uses a weapon to kill in existence is not a good person.

"The Death Note only corrupts those with evil in their hearts (to my knowledge) so even in the early chapters, Light was still filled with evil"

Um, no. The part about corrupting those with evil in those hearts is never stated, implied or a fact in any regard, so I have no idea where you came up with that but it's blatantly wrong. The Death Note is said to bring misfortune and suffering to everyone who uses it, although that is just a saying and not a rule of the Death Note.

"He even states in the anime (and I think the manga too) "This is what I've always wanted." which implies he was planning to become a god of the world even before he got the Death Note. "

That is a massive stretch, and in no way does that imply he was always planning to become a god at all. All that implies is that Light wanted to change the world.

"I'd have to read the manga again, but I'm pretty sure Light not only doesn't care for his family, but treats them as disposable. He didn't feel the least bit upset when his father died, or when his sister was in the hospital. He just felt "If she dies, the police will be able to figure out that I'm Kira." "

Well he cries when his father dies and re-reading that part again at no point does his internal monologue hint that it's just an act. The only time he mentions controlling his expressions is when he's trying to get his father to write it in the notebook, so the part where Lightysnake said he was weighing up how upset he should be simply never happened.

@ Lightysnake

"Light's internal thoughts show him calling his father an idiot"

That scene has him going What are you doing? He's too dangerous to let live! Which incidentally turns out to be 100% true since such hesitation in killing Mello directly leads to Mello's escape, the near death of the entire investigation team, and his own death. I'm not saying his father is wrong for hesitating to kill Mello (because he's the most moral character in the entire series and up to that point had never actually killed somebody before), just pointing out that he was showing a lot of Genre Blindness by not instantly killing the incredibly dangerous super genius crime lord who has already worked up a body count comparable to Light when he first started.

"actively gauging "Hmmm, should sad should I look that he's dying so I can get a final use out of him""

Never happened. I literally have the volume open right in front of me and that never happens. He expresses internal relief that his father doesn't think he's Kira and how best to get his father to write down Mello's name, who just so happens to be a constant danger to his life. At no point does he think the words "how sad should I be?" At no point does the work say one way or the other if his tears are fake, which is also incidently kind of the whole point of the work where wether or not Light is a Well-Intentioned Extremist or Knight Templar is left up to the reader's discretion.

I would also point out that when Light is getting ready for the raid he actually stops and thinks about what it means if his father does write in the Death Note since there was the rule about people dying after 13 days if they don't write in it again. In the anime we get his tone of voice as he thinks about it, but both share the same dialogue where he starts going through the implications of it but then mentally stops himself before he gets to the end. Anime!Light has a clear tone of reluctance, whereas Manga!Light only has the "..." when he gets to the part about having to kill his father to keep the ruse going, but in both scenes I at least got the impression that he at worst was not looking forward to just the thought of killing his own father, a far cry from claims he treated his whole family as disposable.

"Light never goes through with killing his family" when he flat out says without a hint of hesitation "I'll kill Sayu...wait, no, that'll expose me as Kira.""

That's irrelevant. Plenty of characters have talked though about doing heinous things, but when push came to shove don't go through with it. Even thinking it makes him a horrible person, but that does not automatically equal "will absolutely 100% go through with it."

"He's in a situation where he'll die if he's caught that is entirely his fault. If a man kills a ton of people and risks execution if he's caught, you don't cut him slack for murdering more people to keep himself free. "

Yet we've always treated "killing people to save his own skin" as being less heinous than "killing people for power." This isn't saying that Light is a better person, this is saying that he's not killing people just for the hell of it.

"And really, the idea that the heroes are so gray as to skew the heinous standard? No, absolutely not. The most we get is L kidnapping Misa and giving her some light rough treatment. As Misa is a mass murdering serial killer fangirl, my reaction in the manga when people called this a bad thing was "cry me a fucking river that the mass murderer who killed a few of L's team the other night is tied up and blinded for a little bit." "

Light rough treatment? Completely immobilising a person and blindfolding them before starving them for three days is light rough treatment? Leaving them completely immobilised and blinded for over 50 days is fucking torture by any definition of the word, especially since he continues with it despite all evidence at the time pointing to him having made a mistake.

You're also neglecting the fact that he basically blackmailed Light's father into faking an execution of his own son just to prove a theory, which incidentally is also defined as a form of torture by law. Plus L is perfectly fine to let the third Kira kill someone as that would mean he could prove who was responsible and had to be shown up by Light of all people on how to save lives and catch Kira at the same time.

You're also forgetting Mello, who took over the Mafia with all that entails, kidnapped a police director and from the looks of things had him roughed up to get him talking, then when the director died kidnaps a teenage girl (Light's sister) and uses her life as a bargaining chip, is 3/4s of the way through with ordering her death when her father shows just a little bit of hesitation about them using the Death Note to murder someone, absolutely decimates the SPK (an American task force setup to catch Kira) and the Mafia as soon as he gets the Death Note, zero hesitation about killing his own men or setting up situations where they will die to cover his escape, continually threatening Sayu's life after her release to force her father to continue helping him kill more people, threatens to start a nuclear war to get the President of the United States to start bankrolling the Mafia (it's not made clear if he knew his threat wouldn't work or not, but it does lead to the President killing himself out of fear the Death Note would make him start World War III), keeps holding up someone at gunpoint who is perfectly willing to just help him out anyway and dies kidnapping yet another woman who was actually guilty this time. And his motivation for all of this? So he can beat his childhood rival in a game to catch Kira and prove himself the better person.

Then you have Near, said childhood rival. His whole motivation is to catch Kira not because he's a mass murderer on an unheard of scale, but because he wants to prove he can do what his predecessor couldn't. He doesn't do as much to start with as Mello does because he's busy playing catch up, but when Mello shows up to his hideout holding one of his team at gunpoint and after having decimated most of the team on top of the whole kidnapping an innocent girl and otherwise being a mass murderer, tells his team (who again, lost most of their friends to Mello) that there was no actual proof Mello was responsible for killing most of the team (despite Near being the one who told everyone that Mello did it) so they should all just put their guns down (despite Mello holding up one of their team members at gun point and then later holding Near up at gun point) and take no action to arrest a mass murderer.

Then, when Mello manipulates Mogi (a member of Light's investigation team trying to catch Kira unaware that Light is Kira) into coming to Near's headquarters Near keeps him there against his will despite at that point having no legal authority to detain anyone, holds him for about two weeks (to his credit he does keep Mogi safe when their Headquarters is attacked by Kira supporters), fakes his death to trick another member of Light's team into coming to see him to give him information, after figuring out that Light is Kira and who is doing the killings for him states he is absolutely certain that if he killed both of them the killings would stop but refuses to do so not out of any moral qualms with executing two people without any kind of legal authority, due process or oversight but because it's not how the L would have done it so he can't be his successor otherwise and because he wants to absolutely rub his victory in Light's face (I am not joking about that, he literally says exactly that when explaining why he won't just kill Light).

And ultimately, for all his talk about how only horrible people would use the Death Note and any good person would only use it to test if it worked and never again, at the end characters openly speculate that Near used the Death Note to control Mikami (Light's last accomplice) to ensure his plan went off without a hitch (which if true means he basically murdered someone himself just to guarantee his own victory).

And on the other side of the Kira/L fight, we have Mikami (said accomplice to Light) who is even more extreme than Light is. From a young age he decided that there were certain types of people who deserved to die (contrast with Light who only started believing in killing people after he had tested the Death Note and when losing all memories of it was very much against killing people), including his own mother for the heinous crime of wanting him to stop going after bullies because she didn't want to see him get hurt all the time. When he gets the Death Note he shows absolutely no hesitation in using it (again contrasting with Light who took an entire week after first getting it to test it and is absolutely freaked out to the point of nausea when he realises it works), and twice shows himself more extreme than Light is (the first time was because of pragmatic reasons as Mikami via proxy announced his intention to kill people who weren't living up to their potential or let bad things happen through their own inaction, something which Light said was too soon to happen. The other time however is a clear case of Even Evil Has Standards as Mikami via proxy announces his intent to kill criminals who have already served out their time and Light's internal monologue is solely about the differences in their moral beliefs rather than about how it'd be perceived by people). The only reason why Mikami hasn't been considered is that he lacks the time with the Death Note that Light had to rack up the body count.

Look, my position has never been that Light was some misunderstood hero or that he's even a nice person, it's that despite being on the border between Well-Intentioned Extremist and Knight Templar he's always been just on the former side of the line. Even after going off the slippery slope he still has that focus on making the world a better place for good people, when thinking about his accomplishments focuses on how he's stopped war entirely and people are nicer to each other, how crime is down and all that. It's not entirely about himself.

@ Hodor

I know this is massively off topic but...where is there a 2 at the end of your name now?

That scene has him going What are you doing? He's too dangerous to let live! Which incidentally turns out to be 100% true since such hesitation in killing Mello directly leads to Mello's escape, the near death of the entire investigation team, and his own death. I'm not saying his father is wrong for hesitating to kill Mello (because he's the most moral character in the entire series and up to that point had never actually killed somebody before), just pointing out that he was showing a lot of Genre Blindness by not instantly killing the incredibly dangerous super genius crime lord who has already worked up a body count comparable to Light when he first started.

There's more than one internal thought. When Soichiro has the pen to the Note, Light flat out shouts mentally "You idiot...keep writing...come on..." when Soichiro hesitates. At no point does Light express any concern for his father's safety.

Now, after his father is peppered with bullets, all Light cares about is Mello's death. He doesn't scream, he doesn't look upset, he doesn't express shock...no, when another guy has Mello at gunpoint, the ONLY THING that occupies Light's mind is "you fool! Fire!"

Whether Soichiro is right or wrong is unbelievably irrelevant to this matter. The issue is that Light doesn't care if he dies or not. He only cares about Mello's death.

Never happened. I literally have the volume open right in front of me and that never happens. He expresses internal relief that his father doesn't think he's Kira and how best to get his father to write down Mello's name, who just so happens to be a constant danger to his life. At no point does he think the words "how sad should I be?" At no point does the work say one way or the other if his tears are fake, which is also incidently kind of the whole point of the work where wether or not Light is a Well-Intentioned Extremist or Knight Templar is left up to the reader's discretion.

Light outright thinks to himself how sad he should look. I'm paraphrasing, but when trying to convince Soichiro to write down Mello's name, Light says "It is strange for me to say it...well, it depends on how I say it. In such a case as this, it's fine if I seem too upset." Soichiro: I'll leave it all to you, Light Light's thoughts: At this time, it's only natural to be upset! No time to lose!

So, really, if one comes away with the idea Light gives two coppers about his dad, I have to question what the heck they're reading.

And no, the work does not leave that up ti 'interpretation,' as we see Light spiral the hell out of control and be told in no uncertain terms which one he is. Once again, if Ohba and Okata intended otherwise, they failed.

I would also point out that when Light is getting ready for the raid he actually stops and thinks about what it means if his father does write in the Death Note since there was the rule about people dying after 13 days if they don't write in it again. In the anime we get his tone of voice as he thinks about it, but both share the same dialogue where he starts going through the implications of it but then mentally stops himself before he gets to the end. Anime!Light has a clear tone of reluctance, whereas Manga!Light only has the "..." when he gets to the part about having to kill his father to keep the ruse going, but in both scenes I at least got the impression that he at worst was not looking forward to just the thought of killing his own father, a far cry from claims he treated his whole family as disposable.

Your interpretation alone. Manga Light, again, is shown to not remotely care when Soichiro dies beyond the usage he gets out of him. We already said Anime Light doesn't count. In fact, after Light flat out chimes in on "oh, yes, dad, take the eyes and halve your live" Ryuk giggles and expresses Light has gone so far to use his dad as a pawn. All Light shows is calm contemplation.

That's irrelevant. Plenty of characters have talked though about doing heinous things, but when push came to shove don't go through with it. Even thinking it makes him a horrible person, but that does not automatically equal "will absolutely 100% go through with it.

You know the difference in not committing a crime for "because I love my sister" and "I can't kill her, it'd blow my cover." What it does mean, is you can't remotely use the fact he doesn't kill her as a disqualifier. It's not a redeeming moment, it's not a Pet the Dog. It's a cold-blooded cost-benefit analysis over the life of his own sister and the sole reason he doesn't murder her is because he views it as too dangerous to his own skin. What we have onscreen? Light doesn't murder his sister because it'd draw suspicion. Not redeeming. We have definitively eliminated the idea he cares about his sister or father in the work.

Yet we've always treated "killing people to save his own skin" as being less heinous than "killing people for power." This isn't saying that Light is a better person, this is saying that he's not killing people just for the hell of it.

Yeah, and killing people because you're a sadistic egomaniac who wants to rule the fucking world? Not much better. If you gun down the cops when you come to arrest you, that's still a minus in your column. Light also killed plenty people for petty reasons, let's not pretend he hasn't shown anything short of sadistic glee over his murders. Just ask Lind L. Taylor. Or Naomi Misora. Sure, killing her was self defense. What do we make of the sadistic grin and "I'm KIRA!" followed by him practically doing a victory dance?

Light rough treatment? Completely immobilising a person and blindfolding them before starving them for three days is light rough treatment? Leaving them completely immobilised and blinded for over 50 days is fucking torture by any definition of the word, especially since he continues with it despite all evidence at the time pointing to him having made a mistake.

I'll repeat: When Misa is concerned? She deserved it. L is absolutely correct about her and she is a rather nasty serial killer who murdered people on his team.

The Punisher flat out tortures criminals with pliers and blowtorches all the time, but we still qualify white slavers in MAX. Let me repeat this: L tortures someone. Okay, and? Is this somehow more heinous than, ahem: The heroes do not commit mass murder. They do not force a woman devoted to them to burn herself alive, they do not use the lives of people as sick experiments to test out their new Death Note toys, they do not gloat over their victims as they force them to commit suicide after having destroyed them mentally...kidnap and reckless endangerment in the pursuit of stopping a mass murderer doesn't make you as bad as said murderer.

Take a look at that list of crimes and tell me L in any way, shape or forms compares to Light's crimes.

And Mello is a villain. He also has crimes that are not as heinous as Light's. And Near has an impure motive for going for Light? You yourself even admit Mikami isn't bad enough, for time constraints if nothing else.

At the end of the day, your post hasn't addressed the salient points of Light outstripping everyone in heinousness. Light is a murderer on a scale that L, Mello, Near and everyone else don't come close to. Light is entirely responsible for a number of things his little proteges do...and he's only annoyed by Mikami because Mikami was blowing the lid on his "kill the lazy" plan far too quickly (Light came up with that in...what, chapter 2? 1 maybe?)

The heinousness standard isn't an issue. Light is far more sadistic, unless you can show me somethign that compares to what he did to Naomi Misora and Kiyomi Takeda, or how he uses the Death Note as an experiment to make a man open his veins and write out messages to L on the wall.

Look, my position has never been that Light was some misunderstood hero or that he's even a nice person, it's that despite being on the border between Well-Intentioned Extremist and Knight Templar he's always been just on the former side of the line. Even after going off the slippery slope he still has that focus on making the world a better place for good people, when thinking about his accomplishments focuses on how he's stopped war entirely and people are nicer to each other, how crime is down and all that. It's not entirely about himself.

I'm sorry, but "I want to be GOD" and everything stemming from that? Light constantly screams about how he's the most perfect God who decides justice and everyone who opposes him is evil to the point where he kills them with sadistic relish. Light's only 'benevolence' is hollow egotistical emotional masturbating on his part. He doesn't care about killing innocent people (Given he did plenty of that), he just cares about "I'm such an awesome, loving God"

Oh, and given what Light did with the Death note in his Memory Gambit, we might as well list Higuchi's crimes in his corner as well.

He's a keeper.

@ACW Good writeups, but two minor errors on Rico's:

"(with a giddily sadistic (grin on his face)"

Don't need the extra bracket before "grin."

"...trying to frame Rico the whole time..."

Rico was trying to frame Judge Dredd, but at this point it's more like he's attempting to Break Them by Talking. I've made one more minor edit to include both points in the YMMV page.

I'll also being finalizing a for Light- I'm familiar with the manga and the anime, so I don't really need an effort post on my end.

edited 20th Feb '15 5:38:56 PM by Scraggle

Don't remember if I gave the Light a thumbs up, but just in case

Also just finished Book of Life and Hodor2 was correct. While the real Big Bad Chakal is KOC villain and is played strait, and he has a decent attempted body count ( he tries to blow up the town as he dies), he's a pretty standard kids movie villain, and as cartoony as the rest of the movie.

for Light.

Kinda wanna read Death Note now.

I have another to propose. though the character is from a black horror comedy, it's entirely possible the character counts due to some hideous crimes: Standartenführer (Oberst) Herzog.

Now, Herzog, in life, was a Nazi officer in charge of a group of Einstazgruppe who occupied a town in the mountains. The Nazis abused and tortured the locals until the locals had enough, rose up against Herzog and drove him and his men out into the wilderness. Herzog and the others froze to death, taking with them all the valuables they could carry. Now, as a zombie, Herzog holds the others as thralls after death, guarding the Nazi gold and slaughtering anyone with the misfortune to come near.

The first movie is a pretty basic horror film. People go into the woods, stumble on the zombies, die horribly...now, Herzog apparently allows the last of them to go as he returns the gold...but shows up later to kill him anyways.

The second film, though, has Herzog storm off the mountain for a bit of Nazi payback. He starts butchering civilians and reanimating them right after to serve as the Nazi army. Now, we see a lot of people slaughtered by the zombies. Herzog kills a priest personally, then has a bus of tourists slaughtered, then attacks the town. Herzog personally uses a tank which he uses to blast anyone he sees: women, men or children...hell, he blasts two women with baby carriages at one point.

The only way to stop him? the surviving character from the last movie reanimates a bunch of Soviet zombies and a massive battle for the town ensues.

Herzog's got an enormous bodycount and unlike all the other Zombies, retains his personality and mind. While the movies have a lot of black comedy to them, Herzog's still a serious threat.

to Herzog

Here are the current votes for Redjac:

6 Yea: Myself, ACW, Scraggle, Lightysnake, Shaoken, holders.

2 Nay: Morganthaler, Irrose.

I made a rough write-up for Redjac if we vote that it qualifies.

• Season 2’s Wolf In The Fold introduced Redjac, a non-corporeal being that fed on fear and terror. Redjac had the ability to take a humanoid host, and used these hosts for centuries to commit mass murders, most notably as Jack the Ripper. It targeted women because they’re deaths tended to generate more fear, and was responsible for dozens of deaths across multiple planets, and almost certainly countless more, as it claims to have existed since the dawn of time. In the episode, Redjac murders three women and frames Scotty for all of them. When it’s discovered, it takes control of the Enterprise’s computers and attempts to kill everyone on-board, cackling all the while. While it appears to have been defeated, it reappeared in both the DC and WildStorm comics later on. In the DC comics two-parter, “Wolf on the Prowl” and “Wolf at the Door”, it commits several more murders in the body of an Enterprise crewperson, had established itself as the “God of Evil” on a primitive planet, and killed thousands of said planet’s inhabitants to give itself power in a last-ditch effort to get revenge on Kirk by destroying the Enterprise and its crew. In the Wild Storm comic, “Embrace the Wolf”, it provoked an all-out nuclear war on a peaceful Federation planet, and challenged Data in his Sherlock Holmes persona to save his fellow crew members while Redjac took up its mantle once again as Jack the Ripper. It did this for fun to see if it could get a fear response from an android. Acting less as a senseless predator and more as a psychotic serial killer on a galactic level, Redjac is one of the worst that Star Trek has to offer.

edited 20th Feb '15 8:39:56 PM by Camberf

An actual legitimate Nazi Zombie?

Hell, when he kills the priest and marches out, he and all the zombies even do a Nazi salute.

He also kills Soviet zombies, but that kinda goes without saying.

That Nazi zombie from Dead Snow? I guess I'll give a .

Does Herzog care for his fellow Nazi zombies or his country? Does he kill non Jewish people who don't try to steal the gold?

I...don't particularly think there are many towns full of Norwegian Jews...last I checked, there are less than a thousand of them in the country. Nor are there many Jewish priests in Christian churches. I kinda answered your questions in my first post, bob.

Herzog doesn't demonstrate what I could call care for his men...they're more zombie slaves

edited 20th Feb '15 8:53:44 PM by Lightysnake

Zombie Nazi? From your description, Herzog sounds like a keep.

Definite yes to Manga!Light and Movie!Light, not sure about Anime!Light, though I'm leaning towards a yes.

As for Redjac? I guess I'll give him a yes. He seems to have moral agency.

edited 20th Feb '15 9:00:57 PM by Klavice

wait, so what's his motive in the second film? Is he just trying to create a massive nazi zombie army to Take Over the World? And does he display any love for his country?

edited 20th Feb '15 9:04:02 PM by bobg

Yeah, at the very least, he wants to exterminate everything in the near vicinity.

Herzog never expresses love towards Germany, either. He can talk, but he's pretty...monosyllabic

edited 20th Feb '15 9:18:57 PM by Lightysnake

By the way, in this week's Bleach, Kyoraku's Godzilla Threshold has been crossed and he's going to apparently release Aizen to fight Yhwach. Let's keep an eye out for redeeming qualities or new evil deeds for the list.

edited 20th Feb '15 10:31:40 PM by HamburgerTime

Even though his actions are played for (very, very) dark laughs, I do think that Herzog qualifies. For the reasons stated above.

Plus, it is shown in the second movie that the one who re-animates the zombies has a level of control over them, meaning that he's ,at least partly, responsible for the rest of zombies' ludicrously violent and sadistic behaviour as well.

edited 20th Feb '15 10:57:12 PM by LogoP