During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Devon
Coach
Happy b-day Snoke
to Coach and Devon.
Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Oct 4th 2022 at 3:16:40 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Happy b-day Snoke.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, it sucks, but you may wanna take that last sentence down before it gets thumped for being irrelevant.
Yes to Devon and Coach (BTW Jackie, I've read Lamberson's books; there might be a few CM candidates in them if you wanna try them).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alt, Boo, Devon and Coach
Hold off on Sirenhead for now
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 4th 2022 at 12:36:07 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Devon, Coach
Happy birthday Snoke!
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Zachary Devon and Coach.
Happy birthday Snoke!
Goku Black
Devon and the coach
Happy birthday Snoke.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 4th 2022 at 4:31:46 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Messenger from another dimension.
Happy birthday Snoke!
Yes to Devon and the Coach.
Also question; Long time ago I proposed Pelias from miniseries 2000 Jason and the Argononauts. Since it's literally a two-part movie, how about we move it from Live Action TV to Made for TV movies??
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Apparently there's gonna be some news on a Spawn movie soon, gonna yoink that since its not on the reservation page. Welcome to any collabs of course.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think we have miniseries on the regular TV page. Do we wanna change that?
Messenger from another dimension.
not really but two parter doesn’t really count as miniseries. Miniseries must be at least three eps, right?
Coach Pedophile
Happy Birthday Snoke!
From Wikipedia:
"A miniseries or mini-series is a television series that tells a story in a predetermined, limited number of episodes. A miniseries can also be referred to and can also be shown as a television film in a limited number of episodes too."
... I don't think there's a hard science behind the terminology. Beyond having a predetermined number of episodes I don't see why it matters if it starts at two or three, let's just make things easy on ACW.
Back in business, for some EP's I owe. First off, from the Woman King
Who is Santo Ferreira?
The son of a high-ranking European official and a ruthless colonizer, Ferreira is a representative of the Portuguese empire in whose business is slavery and the selling of Africans, inducing both Dahomey and other nations to capture others and sell them to the Europeans. Ferreira is seen visiting both Oba and King Ghezo with offerings to induce more slavery from the Oyo. Ferreira brings along his 'friend' Malik on this, leading to him meeting Nawi, the daughter of General Nanisca.
The slave trade is as brutal as one can expect. Captives are taken, brutalized, shipped along on the horrific Trans-Atlantic slave trade in huge numbers, all so Ferreira can profit off of it.Gleeful over this, Ferreira has masses of slaves taken in deplorable conditions to await their final fates.
Thankfully, by the end, Nanisca's forces overrun the Oyo and Nanisca kills Oba while Malik flees the slaves who attack, beat and end up drowning Ferreira, the same fate he subjected so many others to.
Mitigating issues?
A European colonizer in a film like this? What do we think? Oba is certainly the more ferociously violent of the two, but Ferreira's business-like functioning of the horrible slave trade is no less deplorable and evil.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Goku Black
Santo Ferreira
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Santo
Once we get in the votes for him I'll get the writeups out
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Figured he was the other. Yes to him.
Seems kinda like The Slavers: Tiberiu Ax-Crazy, the other two Pragmatic Villainy, all 3 equally-evil.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Speaking of Punisher MAX, on the character sheet for Mickey Fane, it says this:
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: While he did abandon Polly to die during the Punisher's siege of Daedalus Tower, his final scene makes it clear that he did care about her and that he regretted having to leave her behind, as he is shown forlornly telling the framed picture of Polly that he now keeps on his desk, "Sorry, baby... I miss you..." He then gets mad when his secretary interrupts his mourning, yelling, "Dammit, I told you I didn't want any calls."
- Pet the Dog: He left Polly behind to be killed by the Punisher, but felt genuinely bad about it, as evidenced by the scene of him apologizing to the framed photograph of her that he keeps on his new desk in Asia.
Not damning is it?
Edited by WetFlannels on Oct 4th 2022 at 2:56:09 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
Santo
@ ACW, I think Tiberiu and his son are only example of evil father-son duo where father is Ax-Crazy one.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Oct 4th 2022 at 3:58:03 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You know, it's funny you mention that. I brought that up when he was first proposed, and I was apparently the only one who got qualms from that. Something about him still willing to desert her or something. Not saying I agree, but that's what was decided.
(Though FWIW, I'm not sure the "Dammit, I told you I didn't want any calls" was because it was interrupting his mourning or if he just didn't wanna deal with anything.)
Edited by ACW on Oct 4th 2022 at 9:59:23 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I get deserting her is a dick move (not for the readers like), but he's sitting down muttering shit like that while not mentioning his nephew...?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Santo (given Dahomey’s own history of slavery practices, this is kind of a pot and kettle situation)
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 4th 2022 at 7:03:20 AM
Goku Black
Lord of Space
What is the Work?
Cult of the Lamb is what happens when you take Animal Crossing, Don't Starve and The Binding of Isaac and turn them into a Satanic cult simulator.The game focuses around the titular lamb, who is killed by the Bishops of the Old Faith to prevent a prophecy from becoming true, but is saved by an entity known as "The One Who Waits", who revives the lamb and gives him a crown that grants him demonic powers in exchange of the lamb making a cult in his name.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Midas is a supporting character in the game, serving as the servant of unspecified gods of fortune and riches and running a sanctuary for their (and his own) hunger for gold. Upon entering the place, it's immediately noticeable that it's full of people turned into statues of gold, and to complete a secondary quest you can give your own followers to him and have them turned. What's particularly bad about all this is that it's made pretty clear that all these people are still alive since they move a bit when first entering Midas' Cave and the cultists turned into statues cannot be revived (it's also worth mentioning that judging by the faces of the statues, those people are suffering).Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Ok so, there might actually be something: while it's clear that Midas is a greedy Faux Affably Evil and that he doesn't actually respect the lamb (which can be seen by him taking some jabs during their first meeting), he DOES give him rewards when the latter gives him followers to turn into golden statues. However, it could be argued that this isn't actual honor, but simply Midas acting like a pragmatic businessman to make sure that the lamb keep bringing him followers or doesn't hurt him since he seems aware of the Red Crown's power. So yeah, in my opinion his "honor" is very debatable to the point that it's mostly Alternate Character Interpretation.Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Surely you can imagine that a game like this has some pretty high standards, but Midas is the only character in this game I can think of that gives others a And I Must Scream fate. The only other person that seemingly gives a similar fate is Bishop Heket since her zone is full of people visibly assimilated into giant mushrooms, but do count that the Bishops are essentially deities and each has a shitton of followers on their side, while Midas is merely someone worshipping some deities and doesn't seem to work alongside a cult (and if he ever did work with someone else, they likely have been turned into statues), so he's ultimately working on lower resources compared to the Bishops and, unlike them, he doesn't show any Even Evil Has Loved Ones moment.Final Verdict?
Yes to me.Edited by CapitanoNox on Oct 4th 2022 at 4:16:50 PM
Happy Birthday Snoke