During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Newtralizer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
toAsmodeus
Abstain on Newtralizer
Professor Gigachad
Newtralizer.
And honestly, I have had my suspicions on Kavaxas for a while now so I am leaning towards Cut.
We will need a new image.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 24th 2022 at 10:02:48 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
No to Newtralizer and cut Kavaxas. No one counts in Cobra Kai future and Lighty and I will continue to monitor it (mostly for MB, I think CM is impossible unless they suddenly hop back in time and characterize one of the Viet Cong commanders).
Cut Kavaxas, not seeing how a few successful kills (when we focus on attempt anyways) distinguishes someone of their high resource tier.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Kut Kavaxas then.
IPP Wick Check created.
Cut kavaxas
Leaning to cut Kavaxas with the information presented
We would need new image for TMNT page if he will be cut
Future, could you please quit it with the random, derailing comments that have nothing to do with anything?
No, it's not funny or amusing. It's distracting. This has been multiple times the past few weeks we've had to call you out on this and you haven't stopped. We've talked to you about this many times before. How many more times do we have to keep doing so?
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 24th 2022 at 11:16:38 AM
Ethan, Night Feeder, Madman, Monke Shaman (happy World Gorilla Day!), Frank and Asmodeus. That movie evidently did its research - in IRL mythology Asmodeus governs the sin of Lust.
Forever, not even close to the worst just within Dio’s Tarot-themed Carnival of Killers.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We'd need image pickin', but possible images:
- Shredder◊ from Batman vs. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- Count Dracula from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)
Are the other 2012 baddies okay?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frank.
Asmo-"Ozzie"-deus.
Either one works. I'd probably lean toward the Dracula one though as it's very clear he's about to bite her neck. With the one for Shredder, I couldn't tell at first that he was impaling the guy.
I deleted what I wrote in my previous post.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 24th 2022 at 10:21:25 AM
Professor Gigachad
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I admittedly don't know much about the series but I think all the current ones, besides Kavaxas, are okay.
- Kraang Prime is obviously fine he is probably the worst in the series.
- Rat King is especially nasty for a lower tier villain
- Overmind is getting by through sheer scale for such a minor villain
- Dracula isn't operating with the same level of resources as Kavaxas and he has an especially high body count in addition to attempting to wipe out humanity among other crimes.
Honestly Dracula is probably the main reason I think Kavaxas doesn't count since he is replicating his crimes with much lower resources (Dracula isn't weak but compared to Kavaxas' powers).
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 24th 2022 at 10:29:13 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Cut Kavaxas (jeez for a kids show TMNT 2012 has a high heinous standard)
Professor Gigachad
It's nothing compared to the 2003 series.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, the 2003 series had basically freaking C'thlhu.
I assume all of those keepers are okay? Ch'Rell is among the worst in the franchise (and his Bad Future version); Necro Monster is unique; I guess Skonk, Romero, and Councilor are fine for their tiers?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Frank, Asmodeus
My severe condolences Mir, take all the time you need
For Kavaxas it says this on his character page
- Omnicidal Maniac: If his line to rule all dimensions in a throne of bone and begin an age of suffering, it definitely indicates upon ending all life on Earth, kavaxas will move onto reign death and destruction across the rest of the universe to conquer them all. The fact that his own method of conquering Earth is through a genocidal takeover indicates it.
Is this "implication" a mere throwaway line with no weight to it? Because Hell on Earth on multiple planets seems depraved enough
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
No, that's extrapolating way too much from his "destroy Earth" scheme.
Gigachad Eldritch Abomination
Alright, so saying recently played through TWR's Himmler's route, i highly doubt he counts, for reference here is their CM trope
Now, while yeah most of it is ultimately true here is why i don't believe he counts, quite frankly he is insane, to the point of being out of touch with reality, he has frequent hallucinations, literally believes that aryan/hyperborean gods are speaking to him, its even stated he "sees reality differently" and refuses to acknowledge himself being a bad guy, hell even the game itself acknowledges just how insane he is.
Someone like this clearly does not have a proper moral agency, and thus i cannot see him keeping for this trope. Im going with a cut for him, what do you guys think?
Edited by Electricogamer on Sep 24th 2022 at 6:01:30 PM
If he's genuinely out of his gourd, I have no issue chopping this version of Himmler.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Frank and Asmodeus
No to Newt
Cut Himmler.
Professor Gigachad
It's also not winning me over that Newtralizer's worst, most genocidal action is just him piggybacking off Dregg's existing plan. That was part of what helped me decide against Psychobos from Ben 10, who's also nasty but is usually just a secondary asset to the real Big Bad-types, which hurts his individual chances of standing out. Trying to blow up New York is a good start, but again, this isn't anything; Victor Falco tried similar with even less resources, IIRC.
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 24th 2022 at 10:53:03 AM