During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Seiki.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Seiki
Count me as an abstain on Soong right now. Based on the EP and this bit in his character page, it sounds like he may not be fully aware of the true extent of what the Confederation does beyond just "make humanity feared" which for me doesn't feel like enough to establish that he's fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
- Absolute Xenophobe: If the monument depicted in the Confederation is anything to go by, Adam believes that a safe galaxy was a human galaxy. That said, given what we see of the Confederation is four-hundred years after his death, it could just as easily be a case of somebody putting words in his mouth for propaganda purposes.
Dagded Dujardin
Seiki
The Draftsman of Doom
I wonder if a villain with no redeeming traits, yet one who gets humiliated very often counts.
I think that alone keeps Spandam from being a Complete Monster.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I;ll give a yes, but man that manga seems dark. Wasn't Oyuki herself gang-raped?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Her mother was.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, like I said, DARK. Seems the ONLY thing keeping Nishiomi is the serial part, so she's a keep, but yeesh.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Aye to Seiki.
I have a couple images to propose:
- Lamia from Mao Dante
- Antonio Tabacchi from Lily's Well
- The Suturer from Like Veins Beneath The Town
- Takeru Yamato from Maken-ki!:
What do you think?
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on May 20th 2022 at 8:48:39 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Yes to Seiki.
@ papyru30, fair enough, but I think Soong dismissing Picard's warning with no follow up questions makes him morally responsible for trying to actively make the universe a worse place. Moral agency also means moral responsibility and the lack of follow up questions, the obvious God complex he has and being involved in the Khan project points to Soong actively not caring, rather than just being ignorant.
Like if a human villain is trying to kill sentient animals and doesn't know they are sentient, I would cut that person a break, if a human villain is presented with plenty of evidence that the animals he or she is targeting are sentient and chooses to ignore it, that makes them morally responsible for trying to kill sentient beings.
Edited by Overlord on May 20th 2022 at 12:02:23 PM
to Soong and Seiki
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
the images. I was actually going to crop the Suturer image myself at one point, but never got around to it.
Showtime!
Okay so I wasn't feeling well today so I went to get a covid test. Unfortunately I tested positive for Covid, so I'll have to quarantine myself for a couple of days.
to Warlord Gout, Jayce, Linda Simons, Nicolas-Athanase Xhatan, Doctor Adam Song and Seiki Nishiomi.
Sorry to hear that G. Hope your recovery is swift.
Edited by MGD107 on May 20th 2022 at 1:27:34 AM
Another Jo Jo Candidate.
Whats the work?
Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure: Steel Ball Run is the seventh Part in Jo Jo series and the first part that is set in the New Timeline. The Story Focuses an American Jockey, Johnny Joestar, and an Italian Executioner, Gyro Zeppeli competing in a race for their personal goals, while encountering various people who try to eliminate the duo for the POTUS, Funny Valentine.
Who is He / What does He do?
Oyecomova is an antagonist from chapter 21 to chapter 23, an terrorist from Italy who were responsible for killing 5 people, including 2 children, while he attempted to assassinate the Italian King. While awaiting for the execution, he escaped from The execution by killing one of the guards with gunpowder and head to America. Heading into the devils palm, he managed to survive the chaotic nature of the location, earns his stand 'Listen to my rhythm' which is basically a ability to turn stuff into bombs.
In order to assassinate Gyro Zeppeli with no reason other than his affiliation with the royalty, He awaits the man in a hotel room, and without any reason, blows up the hotel and nearly kills the bounty hunter 'Mountain Tim', and after discovering Gyro and Johnny was there, plans to kill the two by causing the two to self destruct, however, once failed, he escapes to an nearby river and throws multiple bombs in the river, basically destroying the river in the process, and after that has unique attempts of assassinating the two by throwing bombs in the river and using bees as mines.
However, Gyro throws his steel ball on The way, which crushes Oyecomova's face, which would end up in his defeat.
Freudian Excuses / Mitigating Factors?
NONE, he genuinely believes that he is chosen by god to kill the king, and has no remorse over killing innocents and destroying buildings.
Heinous Standards?
Oyecomova manages to be heinous enough considering that the new timeline resetted the standards of Jo Jo, First of all, he has a unique crime of attempting the assassination on a monarch of the country, and it caused 5 people, including 2 children, killed. Even after the murder, he killed one of the guards of the execution via gunpowder usage and so on.
If this is not heinous enough, well in America, he is also responsible for multiple terroristic attacks, including a hotel, which nearly killed a bounty Hunter named Mountain Tim, and during the chase between him and Johnny/Gyro, was responsible for mass destruction on a lake, making his scale of destruction big enough to be heinous.
Final Verdict?
Yes
Edited by PlatinumOni on May 20th 2022 at 1:30:40 AM
Good Hunter
Oyecomova
I have a video proposal for Professor Zundapp from Cars 2 torturing Rod Redline by putting Allinol into his fuel and increasing the EMP, killing him after interrogating him
Edited by TBmacho22 on May 20th 2022 at 1:46:28 AM
Good Hunter
I've been listening to Yahtzee Croshaw's DEDA files, and I noticed that the villain of the first book, Shgshthx, is a nasty piece of work.
What is the Work?
Differently Morphous is the first book in the DEDA files, about a world where magic is revealed, and the titular agency who are attempting to solve supernatural crimes whilst being hampered by the well-meaning but overly PC Nita Pavani and the pragmatic, rude Downing Street Liaison Sean Anderson. The existence of Magic is revealed when the Fluidic race arrives in England, pursued by their old master Shgshthx in the guise of the Fluidic Killer.
Who is Shgshthx and What have they Done?
Shgshthx is an ancient from the Ethereal Realm, who crosses over into our world after the Fluidics break free from their control. Possessing Jessica Weatherby and using her body to kill Fluidics by exploiting Jessica’s salt elemental powers and the Fluidic’s deadly weakness to salt, they torment Jessica by pretending to be her online friend Reaver and sarcastically confessing to the crimes. They use Dr. Diablerie as a scapegoat, framing him for their own crimes by using mind control, manipulate the protagonist Alison Arkin into giving them her credit card, using Arkin’s empathy for Jessica to get more resources for their crimes, and at the novel’s end gather a large crowd of Fluidics in front of the sea to slaughter them in front of England’s press after taking Jessica over on a more permanent basis, essentially killing her. Luckily, after a protracted fight against her, Heskith and Casin, Alison is able to use Diablerie’s rune-crafting app in order to force Shgsthx out, sadly leaving Jessica a brain-dead shell.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here’s where it gets tricky: Shgsthx makes a big speech about the Ethereal Realm which makes it clear they hated living there, although from the way fellow Ancient Byrgthn talks about it, it seems like quite a nice place, and that they only hate it as they think sentience is akin to ‘being as shit as everything else, but having to be aware of it’. Shgsthx also makes it clear they kill fluidics in order to set an example for the other fluidics that are still part of them, comparing it to having your leg detach itself and wanting to make an example before your other leg gets ideas. However, it’s clear that the reason they don’t mind-wipe Jessica in the first place is enjoying her fear and discomfort at Shgsthx’s torments, and they also treat their attempted massacre at the end of the novel as a sort of game show, asking Alison questions and planning to murder the fluidics either way. The other Ancients are also either oblivious (El-Yetch, who doesn’t realise that using healing magic kills her hosts) or fairly benign (Byrgthn, who just wants to live a normal human life).
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
The other villains in the first novel are Anderson (Just rude and only doing his job, even if he is a dick about it), Pavani (genuinely well-intentioned, and at worst obstructive) and Dr. Diablerie (seems to have a good deal of pragmatism, deciding not to murder Alison after realizing she can be persuaded, and has a mysterious goal that seems to involve protecting the our realm, the Scientific Realm). In the second novel, we have Miracle Dad (who, whilst pretty nasty, making his own daughter drain her own life force to make a quick buck, and once the aging process becomes untenable, having her manipulate other Life Force elementals for his life healing business, does seem to genuinely love his second daughter.) Shgsthx, however, is worse than all of them, attempting genocide and tormenting an innocent girl who had the misfortune of having a connection to them.
Final Verdict?
That’s a yes from me
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
to Shgshthx.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read the EP later, but the book has a page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yes to...uh, Shggy there. But no to Oyecomova. I'm sorry, but it takes exponentially more than "kill a few people" in Jojo to really stand out. I'm very concerned the standard's not being properly considered here because neither this post or the one before it really compare-and-contrast him to similar villains. That's literally what the standard's for.
Like, how is blowing up a lake "heinous?" Are there any civilian casualties? Are we gonna put him up for blowing up a bunch of fish? We expect stuff to get destroyed and Scenery Gorn in an action series. Unless they really go the extra mile to show this is catching up innocent people, this doesn't mean much.
Edited by Scraggle on May 20th 2022 at 3:32:25 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Shgshthx
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Shgsthx, how is the fact it hated the realm played? That affects whether he counts IMO.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts