During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
Yes for Tarkin.
Edited by AustinDR on Nov 29th 2021 at 7:30:45 AM
I apologize in that Suwa does not qualify and will just rescind this
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Nov 29th 2021 at 9:36:12 AM
Lizzid people!
A little barebones.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Could you maybe expand upon that? You're candidate sounds promising, but we're gonna need more than that.
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 29th 2021 at 7:36:26 AM
@Ordeaux No, I get it. It's a technicality and not a good one because it ends up being a discriminatory loophole—it's purposely meant to work to an unfair advantage by being a limited version of the character and happens to avoid the flaws working against the other version in a cheap way. Same reason of course why we can't and won't approve the film version of Count Olaf.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
No, he did enough and his actions were also played seriously enough. Most of us agreed there's nothing to indicate his arc wouldn't have eventually led to him getting his redeeming qualities later on though had the films continued from there.
Also, yeah Rav. I agree that a comic or novelization version of the character is fair enough.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 29th 2021 at 8:14:32 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Having played the original vn, if I remember correctly he displays love for Hazuki, so that’s a no.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I thought we wouldn't approve Movie!Olaf because he didn't do enough.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mortak, Klonus, Walsh, Harkin and White
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Delia
Abstain on Suwa pending more info.
Best Smile
Tarkin, China, Robert, Warden, Red Jack, Goblin, Project Glamor Leaders, Himmler, Votan, Archons, Brian, Livia, Frank, Spike, Jasper, Frieza, Mortak and Klonus, Arthur.
Abstain on Suwa.
Delia.
Cut Brodus.
Happy birthday ACW.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Mortak and Klonus, Arthur, Delia, Tarkin, China / 钱纳维
Happy Late B-day ACW!
Goku Black
China White
to ye Grand Moff and China White.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to China White.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Tarkin and China. How about this quote?
Goku Black
Btw what's up with this entry from old man quill. Like it weirdly alternate between the actions of two separate characters. Shouldn't we split instead.
- Complete Monster: Galactus serves as the dark god of the Church of Universal Truth, which is led by his zealous servant, the Matriarch. Galactus stole the power cosmic from the Silver Surfer, putting him into a coma in the process. Galactus than uses the power cosmic to create a machine to mind control people, mentally enslaving people to fill the Church's ranks. Matriarch retains her free will and leads the Church's forces, attempting to subdue planets and lead Galactus to them so that he can devour them. The Matriarch attacks Peter Quill, providing a distraction so Galactus can devour the planet Spartax, killing everyone on it, including Quill's family. The Matriarch and the Church launch an attack on New Xander, home of the Nova Corps. When the Nova Corps seemingly defeats the Church, the Matriarch summons Galactus, so that he can devour that planet as well. When the Matriarch discovers most of Earth's heroes have been killed in the supervillain uprising, she informs Galactus, who is delighted to have a chance to devour Earth without interference.
Imperfect Disgrace
Tarkin.
Wait, Galactus qualifies as a CM now?
Goku Black
Ih no. Its from the The Wastelands (Earth-807128). It's an alternate universe.
Universal Church of Truth's "God" is the Magus in mainline marvel (earth 616)
Edited by miraculous on Nov 30th 2021 at 3:20:04 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Imperfect Disgrace
That makes sense.
Just an empty void…
The Draftsman of Doom
By the way, can we hold off a few days or so on discussing Spy x Family? I have been busy recently.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 30th 2021 at 7:58:25 AM
Sure to Tarkin. Also, late weak yes to Frieza.
The Draftsman of Doom
Actually, since the 2 weeks have passed since the arc's end:
What is the work?
Spy X Family is a shounen Manga about a spy who poses as a family man alongside an assassin wife.
In the "Princess Lorelei Cruise Arc", Loid and Yor go on the titular cruise ship, Yor having been recruited to protect a young woman who is related to a mob family.
One enemy in particular displays a lack of conscience.
Who is "Snoops" and what has he done?"
"Snoops", the otherwise unidentified information broker/surveillance expert for Leonardo Hapoon, is a wireless operator hired to track down mob family member Olka Gretcher and her infant son on behalf of a band of assassins.
To this end, Snoops keeps track of Olka and the rest of the ship, feeding information to the various assassins, while intending to abandon them as soon as the mission is complete.
While Yor fights off the assassins, Snoops tries to get the hell out of dodge with his profits.
Seemingly only bugging the cruise to track down the targets in question, Snoops has actually rigged several explosives on the ship, intending to frame Westalian terrorists for his own crimes, expressing a desire for the sinking ship to "serenade" him with their screams.
When confronted by a surviving assassin, Snoops mocks the assassin by telling him he will be able to hear screaming from the bugs planted on the ship.
Unfortunately for both of them, Loid disarms the bombs, and because Anya has discovered an additional bomb in a clock, it is thrown off of the ship, killing the assassin and Snoops.
Mitigating Factors?
Unlike the assassins, who are only planning on killing their targets and anyone who gets in the way, Snoops intends on letting nobody live so he can get off scot free. Pass.Heinousness?
Snoops has to compete with a Right-Wing Militia Fanatic (in what I recently learned was called the "Inusan Crisis Arc") who tries to start a bloody war between his native Ostania and the neighbouring Westalis by assassinating the latter's foreign minister using an exploding pack of dogs, and who also tries to bomb a building surrounded by civilians. I would argue that the Militia leader, Keith Kepler, still stands out due to outright weaponizing animals and turning them into suicide bombers, as well as the fact that his entire goal (despite his lack of resources) is to plunge two nations into war which will end with thousands dead.
Snoops would also have to compete with a crew of terrorists who are smuggling plans for a supposed chemical weapon, but the effects of the chemical weapon are not spelled out as much as Keith's plans.
Other antagonists are comparatively run of the mill, including an incompetent spy who tries to change a boy's grades.
If Snoops was only colluding with assassins to eliminate the wife and child of a deceased mobster, I would dismiss him.
However, Snoops plants several bombs on a cruise ship containing thousands of people in order to cover up his involvement in an assassination attempt on members of a mob family, intending to sink the ship, drown everyone, and go on his merry way. He also tries to frame Westalian extremists for his actions, risking a war.
Even if several of the civilians supposedly end up being suspected of (or proven to be) infiltrators, Snoops is not proven to have known this, and there are enough civilians on the ship to make his actions heinous regardless.
Verdict?
Potential Contender. I don't know if he blows Keith out of the water, but nonetheless…
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 30th 2021 at 10:01:47 AM
Yes to "Snoops."
Goku Black
Snoops
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to China White and Snoops.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I can see what you getting at Ravok but I don't know it just feels a bit weird that we are disallowing these kinds of adaptations specifically because they are condensed when we have allowed so many more, I guess it's just me though.
Forgot to![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Tarkin
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 29th 2021 at 7:24:46 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes