During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
Cut Cinder, I wonder when I will have to cut one of my own.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Witold
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Nov 23rd 2021 at 3:09:30 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Messenger from another dimension.
Wow, this moves so fast. I will say so that people don't miss it. I did an EP and it's literally the very last post on the previous page. Just letting people know, that's all.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Witold Matusiak
Witold
utcay inderCay allFay
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cut Unseen Hunt!Cinder.
By the way, I have a potential CM quote from a character I got up:
If any patient causes a public disturbance, have them removed immediately and locked in their room without food or water for that day. Record event in file.
Inject each patient nightly to induce hallucinations and anxiety. Record all reactions in each patient's file.
CASE: Witnessed the murder-suicide of both her parents by her sister. NOTES: Fakes being asleep to immediately squeeze the vaccine out once injected. Keep unfed and dehydrated until cooperative. Will eventually die from how much she bloodlets herself. Show no positive interaction.
CASE: Family died in a car crash when he was 8. NOTES: It was his fault for throwing a tantrum in the backseat. Tell him that.
Edited by MasterN on Nov 23rd 2021 at 3:52:40 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Cut Cinder
The First man
Sure there, and yea to Witold. Cut Cinder. One more before writeups
Okay, now people may ask me about Skeletor. In the meantime...
What's the work?
Creepshow is a show that bills itself as "the most fun you'll have being scared". The film was directed by George Romero, based on the writings of Stephen King...now an original show on Shudder, with more authors involved, Creepshow has run for three seasons with few by way of keeps here...except for one now, in the season finale of Season 3, the story titled "A Dead Girl Named Sue."
And the man behind it...Cliven Ridgeway.
Who is Cliven?
Cliven is the son of a small town mayor who lets him get away with everything. A charmless, wicked young man...Cliven has gotten away with tortmenting and torturing the townsfolk for a long time. Nobody can 'prove anything' as the mayor buys people off, intimidates them into silence, or just outright has them attacked, while Cliven rejoices in tormenting everyone with what they all know...
This includes rape, murder, brutalizing others...no crime is too low for Cliven. Now, the town is suddenly cut off. Something very weird is going on in the world and nobody has answers. Social order is disintegrating and people are missing....
The sheriff, Evan Foster, goes to investigate. A man dedicated to rule of law, he's ruled out vigilante justice, but with some bad stuff going on...he needs to make sure about Cliven. And when he finds him...Cliven is doing just fine, place isn't suspicious...until the sheriff sees a certain item and learns the truth...
The missing little girl? We see from the visual clues Cliven had kept her captive, tortured her, raped and murdered her. Foster, furious beyond words, takes Cliven in...and tells him to confess his crimes...Cliven is smug about it, not confessing to an y of the myriad crimes to his victims...
And Foster reveals that was his last chance. With Cliven in the cell...they had something at the town morgue and couldn't ship it out...it's the dead girl, Sue.
Who's reanimated. See....this is taking place in the literal Night of the Living Dead film (public domain!) and they put the zombie into Cliven's cell...with Cliven handcuffed, he's left to scream for help, before she agonizingly devours him....and Foster decides they're gonna pay the mayor a visit next.
Mitigating issues?
Creepshow is based on old EC comics. It follows a fun foromula: fun, macabre little stories, usually nasty pricks getting comeuppance. Cliven is a rare example of a child killing rapist, even if he did nothing else, we see plenty of the horrors he inflicted upon poor Sue. We got heinousness met here.
Mitigating issues? Nothing. He's a bored, spoiled rich prick of a sociopath here. Cliven cares nothing for anyone or anything but cliven.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Goku Black
cliven
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Cliven and Witold. Cut this incarnation of cinder
Feels good, don't it?
to Ramsay Bolton, Witold Matusiak, the the Preacher/Jason Sunray quote, and Cliven Ridgeway.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Lich image (looks too unclear). Cut Cinder Falls.
@43110: Yeah, that does sound frustrating. If any of our past discussion (like with the Aztec God), I apologize for not considering that. Likewise, my apologies to anyone else on the thread, if any past PM's from me have spoiled any work you may have been interested in.
Yes to Witold and Cliven, cut Cinder.
Anyway, another Marvel guy for us all! This guy comes from the Marvel 2099 imprint, which was a 90s initiative to introduce readers to a Darker and Edgier alternate future for Marvel (retcons went on to establish it's actually the future of the 616 continuity, but it has its own alternate Earth designation—Earth 928). A lot of heroes were reimagined as gritty, futuristic takes on heroes we recognize, but there was one guy who was totally original to the 2099 universe. His name was Ravage, star of the comic Ravage 2099. And his archnemesis was the equally Dark Age name, Dethstryk!
What has Dethstryk done?
- "There are other miracles to be found on our precious planet...not all of them benign and life-giving. Being a creature of balance, nature has also spawned the evil...the destructive...the perverse! Those that delight in cruelty and miracles of a brilliant and vicious nature... Among those, few are as powerful—or as inventive in their wickedness—as Dethstryk, arrogant lord of this foul island!"
Born Graeme Striker, Dethstryk was the last President of the United States before the cataclysm of 2099 that reduced Earth to its cyberpunk post-apocalyptic state. Dethstryk gradually discarded every single moral he once had as a human and took over the monstrous, polluted island of Hellrock, indulging in murdering, maiming, and torturing people at his own leisure.
The ultimate Overarching Villain of the comic, Dethstryk has a deal going on with the crooked Alchemax Corporation to routinely send ships full of hundreds of innocent people over to Hellrock, in exchange for him not wreaking absolute havoc on anything outside Hellrock. All these people are dumped onto Hellrock to undergo horrific mutation; most die, but those who survive are transformed into mindless, radioactive servants called "Mutroids." The transformation process is agonizing and those who live on Hellrock do so in a state of constant pain without special suits to protect them from the radiation (and Dethstryk's not exactly very generous).
Unmutated humans are also brought in as slaves and as entertainment for the Mutroid population, even the kids, forced into little cages to endure every torture and degradation the Mutroids can inflict upon them.
Dethstryk makes enemies with Ravage quickly when he kidnaps Ravage's girlfriend. He orders his minions not to rough her up at first, and when she remarks why, since he's obviously not interested in her well-being, Dethstryk laughs and says it's because he doesn't want "damaged goods" for when he rapes her, and then turns her over to the pleasure of the Mutroids. Ravage manages to prevent them from molesting her, but Dethstryk tears off the special suit keeping his girlfriend safe from radiation in order to slowly transform her into a Mutroid, then lets Ravage and her escape purely so his soldiers have something fun to hunt.
Oh, and on the subject of Dethstryk's soldiers? Dethstryk is a lovely boss. Dethstryk is informed Ravage escaped his sights—Dethstryk slaughters all of his concubines and two of his guards, in a fit of pique. Dethstryk is informed a soldier failed to kill Ravage—Dethstryk tries to personally murder him for failure. Dethstryk is informed there might be a spy among his ranks—Dethstryk casually vaporizes a whole crowd of them on an off suspicion. His minions beg for mercy as he unleashes minotaur-esque monsters that slaughter friend and foe alike—he laughs "I care not whit for your safety!" and leaves them all to be massacred.
One of the crowning episodes of Dethstryk's evil is when he meets a one-shot villain named Soul-Dark. Soul-Dark would be a Complete Monster in any other setting; he's a Life Drinker with an implied body count of thousands, he kills men, women and children onscreen for nothing more than fun, and the narration goes on and on to describe how "some commit evil for profit—Soul-Dark committed evil for evil!" When this dude challenges Dethstryk for the title of ruler of Hellrock, Dethstryk proceeds to vaporize every single one of his own followers just to make a point to Soul-Dark, then mind-rapes Soul-Dark with his sheer, limitless evil:
- "Dethstryk was so horrible...so corrupt...so ultimately evil...finding humor and solace only in unimaginable perversity...it was too much for even Soul-Dark."
With Soul-Dark a gibbering vegetable, Dethstryk tosses him into one of the slave pens as a warning to whomever else would challenge him.
At the comic's end—after having tried to kill Ravage's friends just to hurt him and having threatened to kill entire crowds of people down to the kids to break Ravage—Dethstryk unveils his ultimate plan: to spread Hellrock's corruption to the rest of the world in a "tide of death" until the entire planet is a blasted, radioactive "Hellworld" on league with Apokolips. Most of humanity will die horribly; those few who remain will become mindless, agonized slaves for Dethstryk to rule over forever. Dethstryk throws away and attempts to kill all his remaining men and allies, even his own Dragon Seeress who has enough of his lunacy. To his horror, Seeress' ghost depowers him, and Ravage finally ends the evil bastard by breaking his neck in a one-on-one duel.
Any mitigating factors?
See all those quotes? See how the comic literally introduces a mini-CM just so they can go "look at how much worse Dethstryk is?!" No. Not a fucking one. The comic shoots down every single possible redeeming quality with sniper rifle accuracy. Every deal is a Sadistic Choice. Every time he doesn't hurt or torture someone, it's for an ulterior purpose.
While it's hinted that maybe possibly he was a good or at least a better person once before the war, when he was still Graeme Striker, they never indicate any remote sort of Freudian Excuse. Even Seeress, who's been with him since the days of the Presidency, admits she loved Graeme once but only won "tolerance" from him in return. "Tolerance" is the closest Dethstryk ever gets to a redeeming quality—when Seeress betrays him, he kills her without remorse, cackling that this is the fate of any other "faded follower" of his.
The standard, obviously, is no problem, whether we weigh him by the mainline 616 standard or the 2099 standard. I don't think you can name a think he's not responsible for at the end; rape, And I Must Scream, torture, attempted genocide, all of it.
Conclusion?
One of the easiest Marvel keepers ever. Not since Karza have I seen Marvel writers so blatantly telegraph that the guy is pure evil scum without a single redeeming quality.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 23rd 2021 at 9:49:31 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Cliven Ridgeway.
Dethstryk
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 23rd 2021 at 6:46:07 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Goku Black
Dethstryk
Messenger from another dimension.
Yeah to Dethstryk. Might sound like wishful thinking, but I hope he shows up in MCU!
Edited by emperors on Nov 23rd 2021 at 6:46:13 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
As the HOI 4 expert, let me chime in regarding Rankovic.
In short Rankovic. Even discounting Himmler, he has to compete in Serbia itself with Strahinja Janjić, a madman that seeks to bring fourth Himmler-style Esoteric Nazism
to Serbia and launch Taboritsky level crimes on minority groups and political opponents. His actions could potentially end up destroying Serbia completly as a nation once either the people or his own men have had enough of his excesses. He(Janjić) could be worth a discussion through.
There are also the Arrow Cross guys in Hungary and in the upcoming content update, also a Russia unified by Konstantin Rodzaevsky(who's even more unhinged than in TNO). Both seek to have a even worse Holocaust with Hungary and Russia completely emptied of Jews and Jewish culture under a even more genocidal ideology than nazi antisemitism called asemitism.
So he falls HARD below the heinousness standard. He does somewhat goes beyond the worst sort of tankie standards of cruelty into into full on nazbol, but in a nazi victory world qualifying him with other horrific figures that can emerge is like comparing the Imperium with the Necrons(or within the Imperium a less insane but still fascistic space marine or Inqusitor vs a worse inqusitor, the Marines Malevolent or Gogu Vandire) or the Lich King with Zovaal or the Void Lords. But "le meme Nazbol" tends to fail heinousness standard unless you really tone down the consequences of Nazism(case in point: In TNO Serov the Nazbol or a doubling down on authoritarian and socially right-leaning Tyumen, the main Stalinist nation, pales in cruelty to many others)
Edited by xie323 on Nov 23rd 2021 at 5:18:12 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Witold, Cliven, and Dethstryk.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Wild Child
Cliven and Dethstryk.
to Dethstryk/Graeme Striker.
to Alexandar "Leka" Ranković.
to Witold Matusiak, Cliven Ridgeway and Dethstryk.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Deth. N's quote, while not typical, illustrates the sheer inhumanity of the character very well.
Happy Turkey Day, guys.
No to Leka with the additional input.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 23rd 2021 at 7:10:56 AM
Feels good, don't it?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
In my timezone, it won't be Thanksgiving until Thursday
Cliven, from one of my favorite horror series, & Deathstryk
with Xie's input, Rankovic
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 23rd 2021 at 4:11:34 AM
Edited by magnumtropus on Nov 23rd 2021 at 4:34:38 PM
to Witold Matusiak, Cliven Ridgeway and Dethstryk
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cliven and Dethman
Well, I've got a sad but necessary cut. Luckily, it's one of my own - we need to cut Cinder from The Unseen Hunt.
Long story short, in the original EP I mentioned how her crusade to destroy humanity began after her mate was killed, but it's made clear that it was largely a personal issue (as in "you killed my mate"), but after re-reading it... that's just not accurate. Up until the very end, she maintains that she loved the Leviathan, taunts Pyrrha with the fact that they both know how it feels to lose loved ones, and Jaune even throws her into a rage by taunting her over the fact that he's attacking her with her mate's body. The idea that she's not actually seeking revenge but is largely acting out of pragmatism gets brought up once, but that's it, and there's way more evidence to the contrary.
Pretty easy and clear cut, all things considered - a casualty of that being one of my earlier ones and not quite understanding how this trope worked yet.