During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Wang, Tsin Hark and Vicary. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Gimble and Blight.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Vicary.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Son of a...I haven't even finished licking my wounds from Norman!
Anyway, cut Blight.
At this point, I'd have to wonder who's next on the chopping block. Cinder? (although I do have reservations about her The Makings of Team CRME version still being kept on this trope).
Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Oct 14th 2021 at 6:55:47 AM
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I mean, maybe? her Canon self is kind of on thin ice, But that's been established before.
What exactly were your issues with her CRME version?
Cut blight, horrible as it is.
And yes to Vicary
Edited by Snoketrope on Oct 14th 2021 at 3:04:48 AM
The First man
That bit where she strangled Mercury's mom because she reminded her of her own abusive mom. Maybe it's me but I can't help but feel like her past still affected her. I mean I had a version of Joker downvoted because his initial victims were Abusive Parents (among other reasons).
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Well, if that's any relief, the characters we are cutting right now are not even remotely as heinous as Image!Baron Karza who was cut last year.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, for Ghost Rider, I'm fine with Midnight Sons Unlimited on the main Marvel page; even though he has a few appearances elsewhere, I THINK I'm fine with Blackout on the Ghost Rider page (though...how much does he do elsewhere? Is it like a Bullseye case in that while he may have a few other appearances, he's first and foremost a Ghost Rider foe?).
Scarecrow, OTOH...
- Rogues' Gallery Transplant: As noted above, he originally started out as an Iron Man villain. Later, he switched to becoming a Captain America villain for a while. When he went on a killing spree to try and attract Cap's attention, he ended up getting Ghost Rider's instead.
And, look: He has nearly as many Captain America appearances as he does Ghost Rider appearances. Him I wonder if he should go to the main Marvel page. I'm open to thoughts either way.
Showtime!
Oh man, Blight? Ugh. This fucking sucks.
I wanna smack whoever thought it was a good idea to give Blight a redeeming quality.
Are we absolutely sure this comic is official canon?
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It sounds like the BB comics are in continuity. I'm not familiar with the canon, but it does seem like this falls under "we have to cut him, but we don't have to like him"
Actually last page Polar said something that I would like some clarification on.
I agree. Let's get more input on that. This is as freaking bad as—and yes, I'm bringing this up again haha—Nathaniel Malick having a throwaway line about his father.
Excited for the Venom: Let There Be Carnage discussion very soon. I see the movie this past Saturday and it was really good.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I don't think any of the same creative team...but I just sent a tweet to Chris Conroy (the editor of Vol. 4), so let's see if he replies.
EDIT: Lighty, looks like Scarecrow and Blackout were yours, so I'll defer to you: Should either/both be on the Marvel page, or keep both at the Ghost Rider page?
Edited by ACW on Oct 14th 2021 at 10:47:52 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm asking this for a third time, and I haven't received any response thus far:
How does a character end up as a "Resolved Item", as given on the Administrivia Page?
Edited by magnumtropus on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:05:19 PM
Showtime!
You mean the "Never Again List"? They have to come up in the thread over and over until people get sick of reestablishing it
Caesar
It may not have the same creative team, but the fact of the matter is that Blight only passes muster for heinousness when you take the tie-in comic from the 2000s into account. By that metric, we would have to take all of his tie-in material into account that's in that continuity, and as much as it sucks, this comic is marketed as a direct continuation of the show. I honestly don't see a leg for him to stand on, personally.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 14th 2021 at 8:11:21 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
SIGH. Then yeah. An aggravating cut, but a cut nonetheless.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is it possible Vol. 4 is a different continuity than Vol. 1? Or would that be stretching things?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I looked this up yesterday... they're plainly in continuity.
Doesn't the NA list explain on it how one gets put up there? I can answer and say it's when they're suggested unsuccessfully to be listed/cut but I don't want us constantly answering stuff that's on the admin page.
Edit:
Please do not bring up characters that have already been discussed. It wastes our time. Any discussion that has been concluded is permanently shelved unless:
A new work in the same continuity is released featuring said character (alternate continuities don't count as they are treated as separate characters. This also means that if the discussion on Character from Universe A is closed, it doesn't apply to the same character in universe B, C or D). The person bringing up the discussion again proves that there was evidence that was not brought up in the discussion before. If people don't use the Search Function to see if it was brought up they get a warning to start with, repeated offenses result in suspension. The character reappears. This rule especially applies to the characters on following list, which will be edited as needed and may include characters judged to be a CM or not to be a CM:
Please consult the pages, they're meant to be resources to answer these kinds of things.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 14th 2021 at 11:29:28 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@Captain
Eh, I guess I would lean cut, especially looking over the charachter sheets, as going off those they emphasize she's a monster regardless of what happned to her, but also she shows full on PTSD signs. But sense we decided to keep her Canon self, so we do make exceptions to that sometimes, I guess.
The Keel discussion actually reminded me, I saw this bit on Dusttale Chara.
"is a far cry from the enigmatic figure of the main game. No longer caring about their old goals, and now focused on sadism and power, "
Is that quite accurate? This is a continuation of the genocide run, Chara was pretty clearly evil in that variant and Power was there goal there as well. Chara's ambiguity came from before all that in the games backstory.
The First man
SPOILER ALERTS
Work
(Live-Action TV/Castle) is a crime investigation show which follows a crime novels writer Richard Castle helping police investigators to solve murders.
Season 7 episode 8 Killswitch opens with body of a Goverment Accountability Office(GAO) investigator Paul Reeves being found in a park. During investigation, it is discovered Paul has been called by Jared Stone a hacker and member of organization Occupy Wall Street who told him to go to a park.
Esposito follows Stone into subway and tries to talk with him, but Stone gets enraged and takes passengers including Javi hostage. Later Jared reveals he has suicide bomber vest on himself and demands release of Erin Wilson, a fellow hacker and love interest
But Jared isn't a candidate
Candidate
Carol Jarvis is Paul Reeves' superior at GAO. Knowing that Latham Pharmaceuticals produced 10 millions vaccines for a virus H 5 N 1 but since there were only 1000 cases of infection and vaccines ended on shelves and hoping to gain money from selling vaccines, Carol puts all her assets in Latham's stocks. Deciding to cause epimedy, with help of unseen employ at Latham, she had a sample of virus stolen and put into Jared's inhalator, whom she knowing her husband was one who prosecuted Erin and using name White Knight at Jared's web Free Erin Wilson, tricked into believing she wanted to help him free Erin.
When Paul Reeves started to investigate case, she manipulated Jared to call Paul to meet him in a park which led into Paul falling in a trap and getting killed.
Manipulating him further, Jarvis told Stone to put a vest go to wealth menagment seminar with 1500 people attending it or largest Broadway theater with 1900 persons watching opera. There he would first demand release of Erin Wilson without telling who she is, and after some time passed, demand for Erin to be send in Maldives so virus could take time to spread.
When Beckett asks her after truth has been discovered, did she wanted to cause millions of deaths for money her only answer is demanding a lawyer
Mitigating
She has husband but he is only mentioned once without any details.
Heniousness.
Her crime, an attempt to create epidemy, is unique to Castle were most villains only have one victim. Jared himself says he never really intended to blow people up and only wanted to free his girlfriend.
Closest to her could be some terrorists who wanted to blow up New York, but i think she still remain unique.
Verdict
I would give yes.
Yes to Carol. Cut Blight.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yes to Vicar and cut cut Blight. Honestly, that's one of the saddest cuts for me.
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