This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Got suspended for being sarcastic in edit notes, won't happen again.
Edited by Beansidhe on Apr 1st 2023 at 8:01:43 AM
I think I am okay with Example Indentation in Trope Lists.
some guy
Have the mods read my explanations? I won't do this again.
Edited by man-alive on Apr 3rd 2023 at 12:16:43 PM
and them's the breaks
I think I might have been suspended for going to a "how to write an Action Girl" and removing the paragraph about the usage of the Chainmail Bikini trope, because I find the critizism of that trope to be obnoxious and petty. Still, un-suspend me and I won't do it again.
I'm sorry about what happened back in 2021! I want a second chance! I was suspended because of a stupid thread war! Please un-suspend me!
Edited by GlitterGwen on Apr 2nd 2023 at 8:47:01 AM
Can I be unsuspended please? I didn't mean to break any rules.
Edited by DragonBall on Apr 2nd 2023 at 1:49:41 AM
Already mentioned that I've been here for very long, and thus being considered a hindrance makes me feel awful and just regret being so sloppy. Don't even know if I'll take it well only reading the wiki knowing I can't help this place even with small fixes (which was my plan to be safe, just correct typos, wrong links, and such). But I digress and know to just accept the mods' decision. Will probably stick to the forums, and post edits that I would make and others can pick up if they like in Get Help with English (already did this the other day, and will do it again now). So long, and sorry for all the trouble I might've caused. And good luck for everyone else here.
~Tropers/G-Editor Appeal
We don't respond to you and then release your suspension. We have to make sure that you understand the issue and that you won't do the same thing again. I'll release your suspension.
~The Real Berdly Appeal
Appeal
The same goes for you. I'll release your suspension.
~Unknown 6109
Appeal
As this is your second suspension for indentation related issues, we can't just let you go on your word. I want you to try your hand at fixing these three improperly indented examples below. Feel free to use Example Indentation in Trope Lists as a reference.
From Weird Trade Union
- Bleach has the "Shinigami Women's Association", whose primary activities involve sitting around eating snacks, demanding Beach Episode vacations, and making Shinigami apparel more feminine. Rukia mentions that the obnoxiously cute duck-shaped Soul Pill dispenser was designed by the Women's Association (though she also apparently requested the rabbit-shaped one).
- There's also a "Shinigami Men's Association" (which only appears in the anime omakes), whose primary activities involve sitting around showing off their muscles and tattoos, and having their funds requisitioned by the Women's Association.
- In The Wizard of Oz Dorothy is greeted by representatives of the Lollipop Guild and the Lullaby League.
- The members of the Lollipop Guild are represented as stereotypical union tough guys, who talk out of the corners of their mouths.
- In one episode of NUMB3RS, Reeves gives a three-count for a team to ram the suspect's door (as is quite common in police procedural shows). Unfortunately, she realizes the door is wired just after finishing the countdown, and her warning comes too late to avert catastrophe.
- In another episode, David and Colby are cornered by an armed suspect. Using hand signals to indicate to Colby what he's doing, David manages to work the count into his dialogue with the suspect.
David: Give us one good reason why you're doing this. Okay? Give us two reasons. (Beat) Three!
(David and Colby spin around and start firing.)
~Fernandez 907 Appeal
Alright, here's the issues we have yet to go over with you:
- Vandalizing pages ranting about your ban.
- Removing context from examples and turning them into Zero-Context Examples.
- You're also removing red links.
Let's tackle vandalism first. Defacing our articles for any reason is simply unacceptable and will not be tolerated. If you have an issue with someone or something us, take it elsewhere instead of throwing a tantrum on the wiki. Is that clear?
~Okami 90 Appeal
Please read the Edit War page if you haven't yet. The first time you re-add an example without discussion or consensus (as you did with that Overshadowed by Controversy sentence), you are already Edit Warring. It doesn't matter that you didn't re-add it a second time. Is that clear?
~Tropers/gorobestboy appeal
OK. The three technical reasons for your suspension are:
- This Edit War
- Not leaving edit reasons for deletions
- Ignoring previous discussions
These all tie into what we said previous: you would rather your opinion be put on the page than respect consensus. You've agreed that that's not acceptable, and if you are released we will hold you to that. Now, let's continue to discuss these individual rules.
The next time someone deletes/changes an example you add and you disagree with this, you need to get agreement or consensus to put it back. Where does Edit War say you can have these discussions?
~Tropers/justinmcmahan198849 Appeal
Well, we are not happy that it has taken two suspensions for you to get the Edit War / consensus rules, especially over this apparent Single-Issue Wonk. If we release you and you get into another edit war or disregard consensus again, your suspension will be permanent. Is that clear?
~Tropers/man-alive Appeal
This is correct. Rogue-launching sucks because it can circumvent several of those qualifications, most importantly completed discussion.
They can do that. But ultimately, if a draft has an active sponsor, when to launch is ultimately the sponsor's call. Just because a draft looks super ready doesn't mean the author can launch it — they might be busy or something.
The exception is that if the draft goes Up for Grabs. When it falls under UFG, anyone can launch it — but they have to adopt it first and make sure it is up to speed. If you do this, you have to take at minimum a few days to clean up the page.
Are these clear? Do you have any other questions about TLP Guidelines?
~Tropers/Eievie Appeal
Edit War covers the reversal of both changes and removals.
Edit War also answers this:
The bolded part was instated to protect tropers who re-add in the name of the Edit Reason rule. We would rather tropers try to communicate with the edit-changer or get consensus from other tropers rather than rely on it as a defense.
But in this case, having an image (1) in the middle of the page and (2) on a YMMV/ page are against our rules. You put it back on a YMMV/ page, not a Memes/ subpage. So your reversal is not making it compliant with wiki policy.
~Tropers/Nen-desharu Appeal
Good. I'll release your suspension.
~Tropers/zwj Appeal
Well, when we told you to give us ways you can avoid edit warring we meant for you to summarize what you read from Edit War into your own words. I see that you attempted to discuss your split idea in the Genshin Impact thread. While media threads aren't ideal for this sort of thing, it is good that you at least tried to bring the matter up to discussion. Keep in mind that you can't enact major changes on your own without consensus and merely starting a discussion is not enough.
Moving on to grammar issues, we would like you to post a couple of example write ups for the Get Help with English thread. Once you have gotten a few consecutive posts through the thread that don't need any corrections or just minor corrections, you can come back here to re-appeal your suspension.
Does that make sense? If so, we can move on to speculative troping after your response.
~Sayafan 17 Appeal
A suspension is an invitation to talk the issue out on this thread. We don't do suspensions over PM.
Moving on to edit war policy, you edit warred because you added back tropes you originally put on the page without consensus/discussion after another user deleted them. It doesn't matter how long ago the deletions were. Contested entries must be discussed beforehand. The only exceptions we make for edit warring is for edits that sit policy or re-adding edits that were deleted with no explanation per Edit War. While you might think the reasoning behind the deletions were flimsy, that doesn't change the fact that further consensus was needed.
~The Shy Ghost Appeal
Making one post on the thread isn't enough. We want you to try to get a couple of posts through the thread with either no corrections or just minor corrections.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 3rd 2023 at 2:50:30 PM
Those have context now. Your Ensemble Dark Horse entries tended to lack the "minor character" qualification, while dialogue tropes and stock phrases need to actually describe what is said.
Do you have any questions about Zero-Context Example?
~Here Comes The Metric System appeal
Well, it's kind of sad that you don't recognize that you were Edit Warring (your writeup, you putting back your writeup), because this is your third edit war in as many months.
Since you're clearly not interested in discussing contested edits properly, your suspension is permanent.
~Lord Yam appeal
appeal
You currently have a full posting ban, which means you can only post here. It was upgraded from an OTC-ban because these incivility issues showed up outside of OTC.
First, we're past the point of RWBY minutiae. I don't much about it besides that it's fairly popular, stars some animesque girls, and draws a lot of debate on this wiki, so most of that appeal falls on deaf ears.
The part that matters: there is nothing wrong with calling out a logical fallacy...on paper...and if you're doing it politely ("I think that's a tu quoque..."). But your most recent thumped post does much more than that. It, directly or not, calls likers/defenders of these characters [checks notes] ignorant of plot points and selfish, and tries to imply something about their personal politics. That would get anybody riled up.
I think a lot of people can relate to seeing a take that they think is bad. But the rules here are different than Twitter or Tumblr where telling people to die for liking a 'ship is normal and unmoderated. People on this site are not Vulcans: it's normal to get defensive about interests, and it's instantly not a logic/argument win to insult others for wanting to defend flawed characters. Instead, it usually leads to nasty discourse that we'd rather thump-suspend than mediate. Better to know what's touchy/sensitive and avoid it than jump headlong into it.
~Tropers/Beansidhe appeal
Snarky edit reasons aren't good, but your suspension was actually for an Edit War. Quoting from that page and linking to the edits in question:
(You're A in this scenario)
If person A adds/ deletes something, person B removes/restores it, and A changes it back, A is edit warring.
We don't like it when users just try to put their version of the page back without agreement from either the other troper or third-party users. Here, you obviously disagreed with the other user on the video game classification. What does Edit War say you should have done instead? (Hint: The answer is on the page. It is not "avoid the page forever." We want to know that you know how to handle editing disputes.)
~Larry The King appeal
Cool. To recap, we've discussed How Indexing Works and Example Indentation with you. Please keep these policies in mind so you don't get nicked for them again. Your suspension is released.
~Tropers/deltanine appeal
Tropers aren't unsuspended until we're convinced that they understand the rule they broke. In your case, it's Edit War. To be precise:
By twice-deleting that text, you're A in this scenario. If you really disagreed with it, what should you have done instead of deleting it twice, according to Edit War? (Hint: The answer is on the page. It is not "avoid the page forever." We want to know that you know how to handle editing disputes.)
~Glitter Gwen appeal
It has been long enough that we're willing to believe you've moved on from this meltdown in the Pantheon thread, but we would still like to be assured that it won't happen again. But we would still like to see you respond to these questions to you:
- Have you calmed down / will this sort of reaction happen again?
- Is the Pantheon project the only thing you want to contribute to on this website?
~Dragon Ball appeal
Your suspension is because by moving an entry on Recap.Supermarioglitchy4s Super Mario 64 Bloopers to the same place twice, you committed an Edit War:
On this site we don't want people putting back the version of the page they like better without talking it over. Can you read Edit War and tell us where you could have such conversations?
~Tropers/igordebraga appeal
An indefinite suspension is not the same as a permanent suspension. If further in the future you think you have built up enough goodwill elsewhere on the site that addresses the problems that got you in this situation (e.g. helping with indentation cleanup, posting correct examples in TLP, etc) feel free to reappeal.
@synchronicity I have read the Edit War page and that is clear to me now. Thank you.
@Synochrity: I have read it and am willing to adjust my behavior accordingly
Synchronicity Yes, It's clear. I understand the consequences if I do it again.
Edited by justinmcmahan198849 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 5:20:23 AM
@Synchronicity, after reading the page about edit wars and giving myself some time to compose the best possible follow-up to my previous suspension appeal post, from what it seems, there are technically two types of edit wars to avoid on this site. To avoid type "1" edit wars, "Person A" must refrain from changing anything "Person B" removes/restores back or face an editing suspension. As for type "2" edit wars, "Person B" must refrain from changing anything "Person A" removes/restores back or face an editing suspension himself. Whenever a "Person C" steps into the picture and changes anything "Person A" originally added/removed and "Person B" later removed/restored back, that leaves no one guilty in the end, but no matter what, edit wars are always grounds for editing suspensions in all guilty parties' cases. That being said, am I now ready to return to the editing suite again?
some guy
~Syncrhonicity: I understand, and have no more questions.
Edited by man-alive on Apr 3rd 2023 at 2:12:56 AM
and them's the breaks
With unexplained deletions as a generally recognize exception to the edit warring policy, I think it would be more fair to say that my crime was not edit warring, but rather being unaware of the image policy.
As for how to repent for that crime, I'm gonna need some suggestions.
I'm very aware of this specific image policy now, and won't forget it. But in terms of making this into a broader lesson, something that I'm supposed to learn from more generally? I'm at a bit of a loss. Promising to magically gain a perfect working knowledge of all policies at all times seems unrealistic.
Edited by Eievie on Apr 3rd 2023 at 2:42:02 AM
Underrated character defender :D
Okay i accept that, from now on I'll put my reasoning for all of my edits so that users can actually look at the reasons for my edit and will discuss any deletions I disagree with on the discussions page, I admit I shouldn't have gone gung ho and restored the deletions even if I still think its bad practice to just wipe out entire sections simply because its critical of a character(especially since I made this mistake with Hiyoko back in January) I should have discussed it, especially since as evidence by the fact that no one else has deleted those tropes, no other users had an issue with my entries that were critical of Fuyuhiko and the fanbase perception. Hence proving your point that I should have discussed it first.
In addition, if I find that deletions border on vandalism I'll just contact the mods about it instead of trying to take matters in my own hands. I still think that these specific deletes bordered on it or at the very least weren't helpful and were just removing sections for no other reason than the fact that the user didn't like that it was critical towards a character that is generally a fan favourite(all while removing positive sections regarding Hiyoko, making the page much less balanced that it was before those deletions).
I hope this is enough to convince you that this won't happen again so that my suspension will be lifted. Honestly i'm going to stay off the YMMV page for a while and stick to character stuff since it tends to be less of a battlefield for deletion and edit wars. And just stick to writing up my reasoning for everything i do.
Edited by Sayafan17 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 3:16:56 AM
@Synchronicity: I made another flawless set of examples a few days ago, but is there anymore zero context examples I could try to fix?
Glad we got that sorted out. Now if you disagree with a change or removal to an entry you wrote, where does Edit War say you can discuss the example?
~Lord Yam appeal
Be sure you understand our rudeness policies. We will look upon future incivility with a more discerning eye. Your posting ban is released.
~Tropers/justinmcmahan198849 appeal
OK, your suspension is released.
~Tropers/gamerzillasaurusrex2000 appeal
That is a good rundown on the definition of Edit War, as well as where one starts.
Can you tell us where you can discuss contested edits (per Edit War) to avoid getting into one?
~Tropers/man-alive appeal
OK, your suspension is released.
~Tropers/Eievie appeal
We are not expecting every troper to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules. Also, this statement was in the previous response to you:
We don't advise reverting all unexplained deletions for the sake of it and trying to excuse disputes that way. Bring the thing up for discussion instead on places like Ask The Tropers or the forums because someone with more knowledge of the rules can point you in the right direction.
~Sayafan 17 appeal
Yes, edit reasons can go a long way. You're also right that discussion pages are one place to hash out a dispute, especially for frequent editors of a page. However, they don't get a lot of traction and neutral third parties won't be looking for them. Where else does Edit War say you can discuss contested edits?
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 3rd 2023 at 6:36:32 AM
Underrated character defender :D
Next time i will contact the troper who removed/added the trope in the first place and politely communicate my concerns or I can go on the ask the tropers page. I should have contacted the user to try and clear up that my criticism of Fuyuhiko was not out of hatred or bias but instead just that I wanted to balance out the page a bit and that misaimed fandom is about the fandom ignoring his actions hence why he was there, not out of my personal dislike for Fuyu which doesn't really exist but just because I thought misaimed fandom applied. Same deal with the removal of more positive elements of Hiyoko's sections which I should have just said that the positive elements were there to balance out the very negative sections throughout the pages. Instantly restoring the edits was the brash and wrong thing to do. I hope that is enough to convince you that that it won't happen again.
Edited by Sayafan17 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 3:55:01 AM
Andrealphus
My post got thumped because I thought this thread was a criticism thread. Unfortunately, it was not. When I said “Surprisingly good Deviant Art,” I wasn’t implying that standards are low, I just used the wring word, as I struggle with wording sometimes. I meant something more along the lines of “Pretty Good Deviant Art.”
Please get back to me soon! Please lift this unnecessary suspension caused by a simple misunderstanding.
And I want to apologize to the person that I was talking to, BUT I CAN’T EVEN MESSAGE THEM TO SAY SORRY! CAN YOU AT LEAST LET ME MESSAGE PEOPLE?!
And when you reply, please lift my suspension in your first reply if possible.
Edited by TheRealBerdly on Apr 3rd 2023 at 7:18:10 AM
N'''ICE''' to meet you! Uhhh, I should never make puns like that again...
(she/her)
~Tatermater 12 We asked if you had any questions regarding Zero-Context Examples. That's all.
~Sayafan 17 Messaging the other troper is another way you can solve an edit war but a response isn't always guaranteed. Can you give us a place you go to get feedback or build a consensus from other tropers according to Edit War?
~The Real Berdly First and foremost, calm down; panicking over this isn't going to do you any favors. Also, you don't get to tell us when to reply and when you should be unsuspended. That's not up to you. Let's break this down:
- Your forum suspension was not a "simple misunderstanding". You reposted the same message that were thumped for prior to your first suspension. In your first thump, you called the other troper's contributor page generic and that their art was questionable. After you were released today, you posted a very similar post to the same troper but this time you said that their Deviant Art page was surprisingly good. Either way, reposting a thumped post is a suspendable offense and both did not appear to be made in good faith. Your first should have made it clear to you that criticism and mean spirited comments aren't allowed on the thread (rudeness is general is a reportable offense site wide).
- You were PM suspended because you panicked over your ban via PM despite being told earlier that we don't do suspension appeals via PM.
I’ve been suspended for several years, how can I be reinstated?, I’m still not even sure why I was suspended in the first place.
Underrated character defender :D
Ask The Tropers seems like the ideal place as does trope place for dealing with disagreements. Is that correct?
Andrealphus
I’m sorry for everything, I really am.
1: I was trying to retread the first post to make it nicer. 2: It wasn’t clear to me, sorry. 3: I panicked because I was in a bad mood today, and the suspension made it even worse. And messages are more efficient and personal than posting on a forum where everybody can see what you post. It’s kinda an invasion of privacy in my opinion.
Last time, you didn’t make it clear enough to me. I have communication issues (AUTISM) which cause me to struggle to figure out social things like this, so please try to make everything as clear as possible. It’s hard for me in real life, and it’s even harder on the internet because there is no voices or faces to go off by. Sorry. I don’t want to leave TVTropes, but I’m worried to stay because my issues will get me in trouble.
Please, have some sympathy for me, and don’t expect everybody to be perfect all the time and punish them if they aren’t. I have issues I cannot control, but you expect me to be able to control them. It’s harder than you think.
And why do you resort to suspension before anything else? Can’t you just do something less… Extreme?
Please reply soon, now I’m worried you’ll never forgive me. Please lend me your forgiveness. I need help that you can provide to me.
Edited by TheRealBerdly on Apr 3rd 2023 at 8:02:29 AM
N'''ICE''' to meet you! Uhhh, I should never make puns like that again...
I'm also banned from posting in the Long Term Perpetual Thread. I don't recall doing anything particularly offensive in that particular forum or that violated the rules. What exactly happened?
Edited by LordYAM on Mar 31st 2023 at 8:44:47 AM