This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Another user and I were edit warring concerning a trope, I realized what we were doing, took it to private messages hoping we can sort it out there without breaking any rules, and he tried consulting the site's staff afterward, only to have both our editing privileges revoked since apparently that's the default response.
I now know not to revert or delete edits more than once without consulting somebody on staff first.
I'm honestly very sorry for what I did back in 2016. I will now proofread what I type from now on. I didn't even know for sure that episode of Braceface I kept mentioning wasn't even real. I wish I rewatched the show to make sure of that.
I've been banned for over 2 months and I keep doing what people are telling me to yet no one has gotten back to me in the month since I got the bulleting example right. I have been posting regular examples of what I think are corrected grammar to the thread.
Okay this isn't fair, when will you guys lift the suspension? I read and understood the Edit Wars issue. I won't do it again It feels like I am suspended forever as punishment.
I'm here because another user was deleting YMMV entries that criticized their favorite characters, I put them back twice and then went to Ask the Tropers about it, thought I made the cutoff for edit warring, apologized, but we both lost our privileges. I'll be honest, I'm a little bit frustrated because the last time I took an issue like this to Ask the Tropers, I was essentially told that they were indeed edit warring, but that it was a secondary issue, and it was resolved without anyone being suspended. That was my thinking this time around; "This just officially became an edit war, time to take it to Ask the Tropers."
That being said, I know that's no excuse to get sloppy and make assumptions. I won't do it again.
Edited by Spacecoyote on Feb 5th 2023 at 2:46:46 AM
I would like to know why I have been suspended. If I did something wrong, I apologize for my actions.
TV Fan Girl 551
I once again ask for my unsuspension?
I wanted to try making a minor edit and didn't realize I'd been suspended. What happened?
Edit: If someone PM'd me explaining why, I see the little red circle by my PFP but I've been suspended from my messages too.
Edited by MToucan on Feb 5th 2023 at 1:43:24 AM
Bumping my request from a few days ago, still have no idea why I was suspended. If I had to guess, it would be because I edited an entry that ended up turning into an edit war, but (a) I think my edits came before the war really heated up, and (b) I didn't remove anyone else's changes, just added some additional info.
(she/her)
I know it's been a few days but responses are coming soon. Please refrain from multiposting.
Macron's notes
Stream Of Consciousness
Hey there. I've been gone for the last week, and came back to find that I was suspended. Apparently, it was due to this thread:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=119881&type=att
My intention was not to start an edit war at all. I was not aware that I could open it up on a separate discussion tab. This is because I post entries as accurately as I can whenever possible, and make any corrections I notice later. In all the years I've been here, I can't think of any other time that someone has argued about one of my entries, let alone flat-out deleted them. I thought that I could simply use the "Is there an issue? Send a Message." on the edit history page to make my point. I did so, but did not receive a timely response. Kind of defeats the purpose of such a feature if the other person doesn't respond, after all. So, I figured I could correct the issue on my own, as I've done countless times before. I thought that the issue was wording, so I changed a few things and even quoted the trope I was using as an explanation:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Funny.Hololive#35772908
I didn't think that this would become such a big deal; if so many people disagreed, then by all means, just delete it. That's the problem with the Funny, Awesome, etc. tags; the entries are based upon the reactions of the viewer, which makes them inherently arbitrary. What's funny to one troper isn't necessarily funny to another. I thought the trope in question applied.
Edit: In case anyone wants some context, what I thought was funny was Vesper's unique pose. Everyone else is staring at the camera with a cheery, upbeat expressions and poses, but he is not. This was seemingly a reference to Vesper's temperamental nature; if you're not familiar with him, he gets easily frustrated and fed up whenever he starts losing or encounters something unexpected in streams. This makes him entertaining to watch, though it has gotten him in trouble with the management team. I had thought at the time that he was given that unique pose in the video to reference those aspects of his character, as an in-joke to his audience. It wasn't necessarily meant to make him look cool; I thought it looked like him making a chagrined facepalm. Also, despite what what another troper said in that discussion, he is not looking at the camera; you'll see for yourself if you zoom in and look at how the angle of the iris is drawn.
But apparently, I was the only one with that interpretation.
Edit 2: Will I be allowed to defend my reasoning on that discussion thread, or will that simply get me suspended again? Just making sure, as I'd rather not go through this twice.
Anyway, sorry for the trouble. Have a good week!
Edited by StreamofConsciousness on Feb 6th 2023 at 2:13:11 AM
Non sum qualis eram.
So, I've been suspended since January for an edit I did on a page (where my summary was an altered version of a quote from a Nostalgia Critic video). I realize my "altered quote" was heinous and I would like to edit again. I learned my lesson and won't ever, not ever, send summaries like that.
Getting everyone from the last page. Please be patient, everyone.
~Orror SANESS appeal another one
Your Example Indentation is way off.
- Trope: Example 1
- Example 2
- Trope: Example 1
- Example 2
What you should be doing:
- Trope:
- Example 1
- Example 2
and it doesn't look like you addressed previous concerns with your examples. You were told multiple times that the Weird Trade Union entry looked like misuse but you just keep reposting it without defending the content. You fixed the potholes, etc. that we told you about but didn't address the criticisms of the content, either.
Frankly, I am not sure we are getting anywhere with you, since the more we press the more issues turn up. Perhaps it is best that we table this appeal for now. We encourage you to re-familiarize yourself with Zero-Context Example and Example Indentation rules and re-appeal when you actually think you have a grasp on these policies (and not just throwing wrong entries at us in hopes that they're correct). We also want you to be able to provide full context without delving into Wall of Text as you are here.
There are threads in the forums (here and here where you can observe how people clean and fix these issues.
~Tropers/legomaniac90 appeal
It seems that you're not quite following our rules on Natter and Example Indentation. Is there something about these policies that is confusing to you?
~Tropers/strangehillhigh appeal
Correct. Please remember that it is the first re-add that counts as an Edit War, and you'll want to hash it out before then.
Also: please play nice in private messages in the future, and don't be negative in objective pages. This was the issue that got you suspended. We won't be as tolerant of future instances of rudeness.
Your suspension is released.
~Tropers/20person appeal
another one
Yes, it is communication with other tropers that we want to encourage, but we won't be as lenient if it becomes a problem again. Your suspension is released.
~Larry The King appeal
Yes, if nobody indexes the unindexed pages you made before then, please index them if your suspension is lifted.
This is not too clear. But if there are two examples, they should all be on the same level of indentation. Can you rewrite the presented examples to have proper Example Indentation so we are on the same page about what you mean? Please post the revised version here.
~Ivanov Troping 97 appeal
Correct! You can also ask other users for input.
No, please don't involve the moderators until an Edit War is underway. It is people who are familiar with the examples/work at hand who can best give input, not moderators.
Where does Edit War say you can discuss these things in the future?
~Tropers/Raoulzerokin appeal
Other users have tried to warn you that your grammar is subpar, but it seems that you have been ignoring these notifiers or otherwise not improving. Because of that, we can't allow you to edit the wiki until your grammar is decent. You will have to post prospective edits in Get Help With English for some time, and once you demonstrate obvious improvement (we generally ask for a few consecutive posts that don't need correction from the helpers), we will consider lifting your suspension.
~Computeryguy 1614 appeal
Correct. Users who enforce wiki policy are exempted from the edit war punishments.
Is our Edit War policy (who starts the edit war, and what they can do to not start the edit war) clear to you now?
~Tropers/cryptic-immortal appeal
Again, the relevant page is First-Person Writing. Please read through that.
How would you rewrite your addition to WMG.Muse with that policy in mind?
OK, please use Image Pickin next time. Your suspension is released.
~Rm 74 appeal
Please reread the Edit War page then, because that's not what it says and deciding what to do with every contested example is certainly not within the moderator purview.
Hint: We want you to discuss with other users. Where?
~Tropers/mimitchi33 appeal
We are expecting you to reformat the example given to you in this post to be in line with our Example Indentation rules.
~Fernandez 0907 appeal
Well, we would have to take your word for it that you keep your treatment of other users polite and don't bring in drama from other sites. If you do it again, that would be grounds for a permanent loss of one or more privileges.
However, we had previously asked you about the Edit War rules. You had committed one by re-adding that misplaced rant.
~Tropers/Atntoniy appeal
A reminder that you tried the math approach first, but did not keep to it. We have no reason to think that this time will be different, especially since you were already told that your suspension was to be permanent. Further nagging will result in losing all your website privileges.
~Tropers/oracleroller23 appeal
It looks like you are having trouble following our Example Indentation rules despite multiple Notifiers about it. Is there something in that policy that trips you up?
~Tropers/Hanz appeal
Yes. Since you added a separate example, it should follow this format:
- Trope
- Example 1
- Example 2
and not
- Trope: Example 1
- Example 2
or
- Trope: Example 1 and Example 2
Now, please give Example Indentation another good read and tell us what's wrong with these entries from Theatre.Into The Woods. How would you fix the indentation (Ignore issues with context, ymmv etc for now)?
- Deconstruction: Of fairy tales, specifically the homogenized children's versions. The original versions are pretty dark but don't have any Where Are They Now scenes.
- Deconstruction Crossover: The play combines no less than five seven if one counts Snow White and Sleeping Beauty fairy tales with some characters fitting into other roles, like the Baker saving Red and her granny, but at the same time, their interactions help pint out the issues the original characters must go through and the consequences their choices brought.
- Exact Words / Loophole Abuse: The Baker needs to find "Hair as yellow as corn." Nothing says that the hair cannot come from an actual ear of corn.
- Playing a Tree: Since the 2002 revival, Milky White has been played by a live actor in many productions. The results range from Tear Jerker to Funny Moment.
- In both of the outdoor productions, the magical harp that Jack steals from the Giant is portrayed as a sexy woman with a harp on her back. This gives Jack's line ("Mother, look! The most beautiful harp!") an entirely new meaning.
~Mister OM Appeal
Yes, you're suspended for committing an Edit War. To see if your edit disappeared due to Data Vampires or someone deleted it, you should always check the page history. It is accessible on the top and bottom tabs, next to "related". If you had done that, you would have seen that the deletion had an Edit Reason that you needed to address if you were to put it back.
Now that you know that re-adding something you wrote after it was changed/deleted counts as an Edit War, can you tell us what you should have done instead of re-adding?
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 6th 2023 at 10:43:50 AM
Herald of the Apocalypse
There are likely tie-ins in between all of these arcs (aka arc welding), but they're probably not shown in order to make viewers/listeners feel a little less confused. Consider them to be deliberate "blind spots" in the overarching story if there is one.
I apologize. I will be sure to keep myself from making the same mistakes in the future if you decide to rescind my suspension.
Ditto. I'll try to be more careful to make sure I don't get suspended again.
Edited by IvanovTroping97 on Feb 6th 2023 at 8:48:50 PM
I've given the indentation rules a look over and will make sure to follow them in the future. I didn't really fully read them over in the past, sorry about that.
~Tropers/silverstars appeal
Actually, you had already been informed via a Notifier sent after your initial addition of Up To Eleven that it was no longer a trope, which makes your subsequent Edit War more egregious.
The next time something that you wrote is removed/changed, and you think the removal/change was invalid, what should you do instead of putting your original entry back, as per Edit War?
~Tropers/Hashil appeal
Please read Edit War. "I have to inform the mods whenever I disagree with someone's edit" is not the takeaway here. Trying to come to an agreement over private messages is one of the correct approaches — but you have to do it before your first re-add or re-removal the entry. Putting back the way you originally wrote the entry without agreement from the other user or other tropers is Edit Warring and warrants a suspension.
Does that make sense? Let's say you can't come to a resolution over PM, where else does Edit War say you can obtain consensus?
~WESTERNANIMATIONFAN 96 appeal
The last time you appealed you were told that we needed consistent good grammar over a period of time. Your only post since then still needed several edits, so no, you may not be released.
~Blood Red Knight Appeal
A recap:
So, not really a flawless record. You seem to be struggling with comma placement, which is a fairly egregious (and grammar notifier-attracting) error. If you can post a few complex sentences that properly utilize commas, we'll reevaluate.
~Tropers/Spacecoyote appeal
A clarification: your previous report is an example of something that had only been recently written down on Edit War, but had been informally done (emphasis mine):
Please read the Edit War page. What do we consider the beginning (or cutoff, as you say) of an Edit War?
~TV Fan Girl 551 appeal
You're here because you make a lot of near-empty recap pages, character sheets, and empty folders on character sheets. We don't do "placeholder" pages/folders in the hopes that someone will fix them. It is your responsibility as the page maker to ensure that pages follow the rules from the get-go.
Please read How to Create a Work Page and How to Create a Character Page, then tell us how many fully contextualized trope examples are the minimum for...
- A work page or a recap page?
- A character entry on a character sheet?
~M Toucan appeal
Your edits look like you're doing agenda-based editing, specifically about gender identity (e.g. removing the "Q+" in "LGBTQ+") and unilateral and unexplained changes to characters' pronouns.
You have approximately one chance to convince us that you're here to edit in good faith.
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 6th 2023 at 1:50:20 PM
The article's discussion page, Ask the Tropers, Trope Talk on the forums, and the report page button to contact staff directly.
I see numerous potential avenues for discussion. I could message the editor directly to discuss the specific issue, or possibly Ask The Tropers for clarification on general policies if I get confused.
Apologies, I hadn't realized that it had gone into edit war territory, and I don't think I was paying attention to my messages at the time. I see that was a mistake now since this is a collaborative forum. I'll be far more mindful of that going forward.
Edited by silverstars on Feb 6th 2023 at 1:01:00 AM
No, no, I know. If they remove it and you put it back, that's an edit war. I should have just gone to Ask the Tropers without putting their example back.
Edited by Spacecoyote on Feb 6th 2023 at 2:19:57 AM
I think I understand. I should’ve checked check the page history like you said to see if there was a reason for the page being edited, and if there is, I should talk to the person who did it to ask them why. Thank you for clarifying. Now that I understand why my edits have been disappearing and why I’ve been banned, I can learn from this.
~Synchronicity
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay, I'm going to go through all of my edits that I think could have caused this problem, and explain them here if possible (side note: I'm genuinely sorry if any of this comes off as condescending in any way, I'm not sure how to properly convey tone through text):
1. Nightmare Fuel page for Five Nights At Freddy's 2 on 8/6/2022 - Throughout the series, Mangle has always been referred to interchangeably as male/female throughout all of his appearances in the series, such as when she was referred to as a "he" by Phone Guy in Fnaf 2 and subsequently showing up in the "Ladies' Night" custom preset in the same game. (also note that Phantom Mangle's loading screen description in Fnaf World has an equal chance of saying "he" or "she") The comment "yes" in my original edit was a reference to Scott Cawthon answering simply "yes" when asked if Mangle was male or female; I made that edit to refer to Mangle in both ways, since neither is technically incorrect.
2. YMMV page for Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean on 12/2/2022 - I'm willing to concede this one as a matter of opinion (and if there was an edit war or something like that happening, I wasn't aware, and I apologize), since there's technically no 100% definitive evidence for or against Foo Fighters being female. I personally considered two things when making my edit, however - first, when the character uses the body of the character Atroe as a vessel, the first-person pronoun changes from "watashi" (slightly feminine "I", typically used in formal/polite conversation) to "atashi" (extremely feminine "I"). Second, when the character dies, the character's soul takes on the form of Atroe's body; if the character's identity hadn't fundamentally changed in some way, the soul would have taken on the form seen in the character's introductory arc. I'm aware that Foo Fighters is considered a "they" in the Netflix subs, but not only is this quite inconsistent within the subs themselves (the first instance of this, if I'm recalling correctly, happens within the Dragon's Dream arc, only a little while before the character's death), it's also nigh-impossible to confirm or deny via the Japanese version (the Japanese language almost never uses gendered pronouns; the closest thing to a neutral pronoun is "koitsu", literally "this person", which is considered rude in polite conversation). Having a small understanding of Japanese myself, I can also say that the subs also take liberties in their translation from time to time - things such as having the characters swear more, for instance. (I don't really care about them changing the Stand names, I understand it's for legal reasons)
3. YMMV page for Splatoon 3 on 12/8/2022 - I'm reasonably certain this one is just a simple misunderstanding; when I changed "her gender identity being non-binary" to "her being non-binary", I didn't intend to promote an agenda or anything like that, all I intended was to remove a bit of redundancy - for instance, something like changing "her pet's species being a cat" to "her pet being a cat". Again, I apologize if that was unclear.
4. YMMV page for Pokemon Scarlet and Violet on 1/27/2023 - This one can be split into a couple of parts. I removed the term "coded" because I felt like the term specifically promoted using stereotypes to identify people. I'll leave it alone if somebody wants to add it back, though. The reason I removed the "Q+" from the word "LGBTQ+", in contrast, was because this site specifically has a page on LGBT Community, not Useful Notes/LGBTQ+Community; if there was a mistake here, though, I admit it was almost definitely on my part.
4A. Penny - The part about her hoodie, I will admit, I absolutely should have explained better. Arruruerie was 100% correct, I removed the explanation because I felt it didn't really explain anything (I had actually considered messaging Arruruerie with an apology for this entry and the following, but I didn't get around to it in time). What I should have done was find a better explanation somewhere on the web and use that. Looking back on it now, seeing Penny as trans does make quite a bit of sense. However, I will say that the one thing I don't think I was wrong about here was the part about battling her on a trans flag - even looking at it generously, the battle arena you fight Penny on is clearly a Poke Ball in shades of magenta and teal, not the hot pink and cyan colors of the trans flag.
4B. Rika - This one, I admit, I genuinely regret making. The main thought going through my mind at the time was one of Unfortunate Implications - at the time, it felt like the only reason why people headcanoned her as trans/non-binary was because she didn't look female enough - the only real evidence I saw was her suspenders and flat chest. However, as Arruruerie stated, the way I worded it absolutely "feels weirdly, unnecessarily disdainful of people who happen to like to view her as trans". Again, I see that Arruruerie was 100% correct, and I genuinely regret making that edit.
Thank you for clarifying why I was suspended. I hope my own clarifications are enough to shed some light on my side of the issues; if my suspension ends, I'll absolutely do my best to stay away from subjects like these to avoid further complications.
I seem to have found myself suspended from editing in the TLP again. Only, this time, I wasn't informed of any tropes being removed. What have I done this time that warranted my suspension?
Edited by RockRaider on Feb 7th 2023 at 4:20:05 AM
This was a few weeks ago, but I believe I was suspended because I referenced an outdated trope (specifically Up To Eleven, which is no longer a trope)? Evidently, I need to pay more attention to what tropes have been updated from their past meanings.
Edited by silverstars on Feb 3rd 2023 at 8:27:38 AM