This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Can I have my suspension removed, please? I promise I will use proper grammar on those tropes.
Okay, it's been a few days, so I think I can safely assume that my last message managed to fall through the cracks. Which is understandable since there have been a lot of posts here since then. So I'm going to try again.
On September 17, Septimus Heap clarified that my ban was due to both the plagiarism issue from years ago (that I already discussed in a previous post) and another issue:
''"Well, there is that but also the fact that you readded the text after someone removed it. We don't handle disagreements by repeatedly adding your edit back. Also, it seems like you tend to not index the pages you write. 10 notifiers for that reason is a lot."''
I addressed the problem in my next post, but since no one acknowledged it or told me where to go from there, I suppose I should respond to his previous message again (sorry for double-posting, but it has been about a week and five pages back):
"I did change the text some when I put it back so that it was similar, but not the exact same wording. Otherwise the page didn't really have much of a summary for the fanfiction. Since the issue was that it was the exact same wording as part of the AO 3 summary, I assumed that changing the wording a little would solve the problem. But since the phrases were still similar, I suppose that someone might have thought I put it back exactly the same at first glance.
As for indexing, as in putting a fanwork link on the main fanwork page and such, I will admit that years ago I did have a tendency to try adding several tropes to the page first before going back afterwards to fix the indexing when I was first starting out. At which point I would get a warning while I was still working on the page and hadn't gotten to that part yet. Since then, I have changed the order of proceedings in order to fix the indexing aspect sooner in the process than I used to. And I am sorry that previously my attempts were done in an incorrect order that made it seem like I did not intend to index things. It was a learning process and I think I've improved since I made those past mistakes years ago."
I was recently unfairly suspended over and edit that was perfectly reasonable regarding the story in question:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a nasty case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with Protagonist-Centered Morality:
- She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that Twilight herself didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
- It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she brought upon herself), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim they all deserved it.
- This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was still in the right to act the way she did.
The other Tropers keep insisting that this isn't the case because she eventually felt sorry for it, ignoring the fact that the narrative constantly treats Twilight like she was wronged exponentially throughout almost the entirety of the story while everyone else is treated with contempt and disdain for not automatically believing her. Which doesn't work when she willingly turns against her friends and goes out of her way to make their lives a living hell for something that wasn't really their fault.
Exactly what am I getting wrong here? If anything, the other user is constantly deleting my entry should fall under TheFicMayBeYoursButTheTropePageIsOurs.
Edited by darknessRising on Sep 24th 2022 at 1:27:27 AM
~Monolaf317: ~crazysamaritan is handling your appeal, but I'll post some of the examples you were notified for ZCE; can you rewrite them so that they now explain themselves?
Characters.Steven Universe Blue Diamond:
- Energetic and Soft-Spoken Duo: The Soft-Spoken to Yellow Diamond's Energetic.
- Energetic and Soft-Spoken Duo: The Energetic to Blue Diamond's Soft-Spoken.
~marbehraglaim: The troper who deleted your text was suspended as well, because they seem to have a habit to making improper deletions. The problem though is that many editors have a very broad reading of "vandalism", so except for totally unambiguous cases (e.g someone replacing a page with obscenities, or blanking them), we like some discussion beforehand.
One restore can alone be edit warring. After all, three edits have to happen for a restore (one addition+one deletion), and the page does say "three edits".
~Ltnik244: Greetings. As we said the last time
, when it comes to grammar issues, we generally like to see a run of good edits in the Get Help With English thread. Your last edits there still had some problems.
Also, there are some concerns about sloppy usage of spoiler tags, e.g here. We prefer if examples don't look like Swiss cheese.
~bookwormgal: The problem I see is that "similar but not exactly the same wording" is still bordering on plagiarism. You need to put the text in your own words.
darknessRising: You left out the part where you did harangue the other troper over private messages. And that you kept readding the example, with snotty edit reasons no less, despite having already once been suspended for edit warring. Repeatedly readding examples is edit warring just like repeatedly deleting them is. "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
In what way was it "snotty"? I read the story the tropes pertained to and added the facts accordingly. While I admit the PM thing was uncalled for, the only reason they deleted my parts in the first place was simply because they disliked the accusatory nature of the described trope. And if repeatedly readding examples is edit warring just like repeatedly deleting them is then why was I the only one suspended?
And last I checked, the last time I was suspended was simply for poor grammar.
Since it's been several days and I am either buried or did not appeal convincingly enough, can I please restate I will stop being emotional and not react inappropriately to what I might perceive, and use a second chance accordingly knowing there is no third?
I know I abused hollers and have been acting out of line, but I understand now my individual contributions aren't worth much (if anything). The deep-rooted notion that they *did* unconsciously fueled an ego that made it difficult to part with work I mostly had a hand in, which is terrible. I will try not to fight with other users whatever I may feel about it.
It was mainly said I have to prove to be able to co-exist with others after a possible release, but I've no way to show for that right now besides just saying it.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Sep 24th 2022 at 1:05:57 AM
I’m going to post one final time…..
I didn’t attack anyone, troll, or tried to be deliberately ignorant. I was just posting some of my thoughts, suggestions, and trying my best to be independent. When more and more people pointed out the flaws in my argument, I stopped posting in the thread, and tried to think of a better argument to make. By looking at some others.
Then one day I was really lazy, and posted an offensively bad unintentional rant. Which I fully regret posting and should’ve worded myself (as well as clarifying) much more carefully.
That is all I have to say.
Edited by ShayanthanYuhanthan345 on Sep 24th 2022 at 3:48:35 AM
Graar!
I believe I already have some weeks ago, but now I'll try to expand on them even further this time:
- Steven Universe — Yellow Diamond
- Energetic and Soft-Spoken Duo: While her fellow Diamond Blue is a soft-spoken, reserved diplomat who is often quite lethargic and unmotivated these days due to her Excessive Mourning from losing a beloved family member, Yellow Diamond is a dynamic and assertive military general who rarely speaks below a commanding tone and buries herself into her work to try heavily and forget the pain of losing Pink Diamond.
- Steven Universe — Blue Diamond
- Energetic and Soft-Spoken Duo: While her fellow Diamond Yellow is a dynamic and assertive military general who rarely speaks below a commanding tone and buries herself into her work to try heavily and forget the pain of losing Pink Diamond, Blue Diamond is a soft-spoken, reserved diplomat who is often quite lethargic and unmotivated these days due to her Excessive Mourning from losing a beloved family member.
I apologize if it came out looking like obsession but honestly I just wanted to write in an artist it’s work I follow and had his characters on the featured trope page.
Writing summaries for my fics has always been one of the more difficult parts of writing them and I suppose that is why I tried to stay close to my original wording. But as I said, I thought that changing the wording slightly would suffice. Since it has not, then I shall do my best to rephrase it further if/when I am allowed to edit again.
She / Her
Bumping my last appeal since I feel enough days have passed.
Also, I tried updating a previous post several times. I just want to get that out there. Particularly if you all didn't notice (and I personally don't blame you if you didn't beforehand). EDIT: I also recommend reading if it's ok and you haven't already done so. Thanks.
Edited by RandomTroper123 on Sep 25th 2022 at 9:30:14 AM
(she/her)
Please be patient. A lack of response from us doesn't mean that we ignored the appeal. We are still discussing certain cases.
I am going to focus on a few resolved cases on this post but I'll try to get to the rest of the appeals tonight/tomorrow (if another mod doesn't).
~Hingabe Sieben — We have reviewed the residential IP address you used on the contact form and haven't found anything suspicious. As you don't appear to be here for malicious reasons, I'll release your suspension.
~Shayanthan Yuhanthan 345 — Since you seem to know what you did wrong and how you can do better in the future, I'll release your suspension.
~Tropers/Melinda
Ask The Tropers: You can use ATT to ask general questions that aren't covered in other areas of the site and to report other tropers and issues on the wiki.
Trope Talk: General discussion and questions about tropes goes here.
Wiki Talk: General talk about the wiki and policy goes here.
I'll release your suspension.
Macron's notes
Thank you for ending my suspension and for letting me know.
Septimus Heap: I understand, and I will make sure never to restore a page, even if someone makes a senseless change to it. However, I urge whoever is in charge of the text on the Edit War page to consider rewriting it to make it clear that one restore alone is grounds for suspension. I doubt one person in ten—and that's a conservative estimate—could have figured that out from reading the text of the page.
CelestaPlebs
Hello, I just got suspended from the forums after GastonRabbit thumped four of my posts on the locked pages thread and told me I can't request edits when I'm suspended from the wiki. If that is the case, I can promise to stop doing that, but it's the first time I've been told that. For the past year or so, I've been consistently getting my requests on that thread answered by mods when I've gone there, with none of them ever telling me my wiki suspension made me ineligible to request edits there, so I've assumed it was an exception to the general rule that suspended users can't request edits from others. If that's merely been an oversight, I'll stop, but please tell me.
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Sep 24th 2022 at 6:53:43 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
~Idiosyncratic — You've had five separate suspensions up to this point, including a previous posting suspension, a review suspension, and two wiki suspensions, including a wiki suspension that's still active. Now you're trying to get around your wiki suspension by asking the mods to make edits for you instead of trying to get us to reinstate your ability to do it yourself, even though anyone suspended from the wiki is not allowed to request edits unless they've been given permission to make requests via the English Help thread or "Is this an example?" thread (which isn't the case with your current wiki suspension, especially since you were posting your requests in neither of those threads), as stated on What to Do If You Are Suspended, hence why I suspended you from the forums.
If you have been having your edit requests fulfilled despite that, that was an oversight on our part.
Considering how you've gone through multiple parts of the website and generally caused different problems each time, it seems like the best thing to do would be to expand your suspension to cover all permissions for 30 days to give you time to better familiarize yourself with the rules of an area before taking action. This will, however, be your last chance. Is this acceptable?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 24th 2022 at 9:04:14 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
CelestaPlebs
~GastonRabbit Yes, that is acceptable. Admittedly, I've been thinking about it for a while; considering my offenses, I agree it would be best for everyone if I took a significant break from contributing to TV Tropes and sorted myself out. For the same reasons you have, I don't believe I'm currently suited for positive contributions to this site. Thank you for allowing me a chance to appeal after 30 days, although I will probably sadly have to take a significantly longer hiatus than that if I want to be confident I won't waste my last chance. When I decide to appeal again, be it months or even years down the line, I promise I'll return as a changed person, okay?
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Sep 24th 2022 at 7:45:27 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
~Idiosyncratic — All right. Check back with us on October 24.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Hey there, could I get my suspension removed, please? I got suspended over trying to add "Up to Eleven" on a Nightmare Fuel page twice - the reason I did it the second time was because I thought something had gone wrong with the article or the internet; I genuinely didn't know that trope had been moved to Exaggerated Tropes and declared defunct. I promise not to break the rules of the wiki again.
~marbehraglaim: I'll lift the suspension, but I am not convinced that one can misread the policy in the manner described. Also, you may want to read Conversation in the Main Page.
~The Dragons Little Bird: Let's test this. What is the correct method of handling the issue you encountered with the link disappearing? "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
garrettthewolf20072 was caught ban-evading and has now received the full boot.
I am currently going through all the pending appeals as far back as I can go and we'll reply to all of them. I know that we are being slow, but we'll get to everyone. Promise!
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
~Sergeant Bane You can't make edit requests while edit banned.
~Luigi Mario 79: Alright, please try to rewrite these examples again with proper context:
- Badass Normal: Most of the time, they usually deal with threats while having no supernatural abilities. Whenever they do gain supernatural abilities (such as in "PowerEdd" and "Matt Sucks"), they only last for a single episode.
- Kill the Cutie: Gets killed by Shoe when she and the boys were about to watch the movie they made.
- Killed Mid-Sentence: While she and the boys prepare to watch the movie they made, she says "I think we make a great t-" before getting cut off by Shoe fatally hitting her in the back of the head.
~Metal King: That's good but we were looking for the specific methods and discussion options listed on Edit War. Can you tell us what you can do to prevent an edit war according to that page? Please write your response in your own words.
Edited by MacronNotes on Sep 25th 2022 at 7:58:15 AM
Macron's notes
(she/her)
Messed up the pings: ~Metal King and ~Luigi Mario 79
Macron's notes
Here are my entries. If I did something wrong, please let me know:
- Badass Normal: Most of the time, whenever they have to deal with serious threats (such as in the "Zombeh" videos, "The Snogre", and "The End"), they manage to deal with them without having any supernatural abilities whatsoever. While they do gain superpowers for certain episodes (such as "Matt Sucks" and "PowerEdd"), they end up losing said superpowers by the next episode.
- Kill the Cutie: Laurel's a nice girl who has fun making movies with the boys...and then she gets killed by Shoe when they were about to watch the movie they made.
- Killed Mid-Sentence: When she and the boys prepare to watch the movie they made, she says "I think we make a great t-" before Shoe kicks her in the back of the head, instantly killing her.
Thank you for explaining. I'm very familiar with the concept of an edit war, as I've been a contributor to both TV Tropes and Wikipedia for years, and this is the first time I've ever had a disciplinary action taken against me on either of them. But with respect, the TV Tropes page explaining Edit Wars is very far from clear that what I did would be grounds for suspension.
Let me back up and give some broader context to what happened. This was on a Headscratchers page where I had posted a paragraph-long answer to someone's query more than a year ago. The other day, someone deleted the second half of the paragraph I wrote, with no explanation. I then restored it. That was it. One single restore to a baffling and unexplained vandalism of something I wrote on a Headscratchers page, and I was suspended.
I've read the edit-war page now, and I understand now that even if someone vandalizes an article, I should take other steps to address the situation, and that I'm not allowed to restore the original version myself. I will take this into account going forward.
Still, I'm not going to lie: I think the decision to suspend me over this was excessive at best. On the page explaining Edit Wars, it is very far from obvious that a user can be suspended for a single restore. Here is what it says:
"Here, we have a strict policy about edit wars. If you add something, someone changes or removes it, and you change it back, you're edit warring. If someone changes something, you revert it, and they change it again, they are edit warring. The third edit in the chain is the threshold, meaning any troper repeating (or restoring to functionally the same) any of their previous edits on a page. Edit warring is grounds for suspension for all guilty parties."
I don't think I would be the only person interpreting the above to mean a user can only be suspended for multiple restores. If one restore alone is grounds for suspension, this is highly unclear from the above explanation.
But, again, I will respect this rule going forward, even though I disagree with it and I think it's poorly explained on the Edit War page.