Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Qi'ra. So happy to see her proposed, since she is probably one of the best Magnificent Bastards in Canon in my opinion. I actually asked about her a while ago and was hoping someone would propose her. to Rayvis and Hunpty as well.
To Humpty
Man in the Yellow Hat
to Humpty A. Dumpty.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Happy to Humpty. Glad to have helped with that one Star!
Yes to Humpty and Qi'ra.
What's the Work?
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is a Disney animated show based on the Marvel characters of the same name. It follows Lunella Lafayette and her T-Rex companion Devil as they protect the Lower East Side of Manhattan.
Who is The Beyonder and What Does He Do?
The Beyonder is a powerful and omnipotent being who reveals himself as the (sometimes) narrator, and (all time) researcher of humans. In his debut episode, he tasks Lunella with teaching him about human customs and the importance of the human race, as he’s been tasked to study humanity by his unseen superiors. During his reality warping expository musical number he… gets interrupted mid exposition by Lunella, just before he can tell her the truth. Had he been allowed to finish, Lunella would've learned her teachings would determine the fate of humanity— the galaxy is in need of “spring cleaning.” To prove whether humanity is worthy, Beyonder challenges her to win a science fair with Eduardo, the “world’s most useless person,” as her partner. When she tries to create an invention by herself and cut Eduardo out, Beyonder deliberately lets her get away with it until just before the festival— and then destroys it because of her lying to him and removing Eduardo, forcing her to improvise a project alongside Eduardo. After Lunella and Eduardo’s new experiment falls apart, Beyonder destroys all of Earth, turning it to a black void. Just kidding! After his “victory,” he reveals he was convinced not to destroy humanity, and only wanted to entertain himself and teach Lunella a lesson.
In his second episode Beyonder takes another turn at teaching and learning from Lunella. His interest this go round? Fear. He follows Lunella, her friend Casey, and her grandmother Mimi to Coney Island in order to find what makes her tick, and makes a bet to prove that she is scared of something despite her claims. He tries a variety of methods in order to scare her, all of which she manages to thwart, after which Beyonder uses his powers to rewind the episode and deduces her real fear is losing someone she loves. This revelation leads to him kidnapping Mimi and keeping her in the funhouse Lunella got lost in as a child. That forces Lunella to confront her fears, and makes her learn that courage is not the absence of fear but the overcoming of it. Beyonder safely returns Mimi, and warns Mimi that her old enemies are coming back for her. He continues to narrate episodes after this.
Is He Magnificent?
The Beyonder opens introducing himself as an omnipotent being. Despite this, most of what he does with Lunella is tricks and games. In his first episode, he sends problems her way in order to study her fighting style. Then, Beyonder tasks her with winning the science fair with Eduardo, destroys her invention because he knows she cheated on their deal, and ultimately spares humanity after making a show of dazzlingly conducting (literally) the erasure of humanity to remind her of his power and because it amuses him.
In his second episode, he uses his powers in creative ways to further test Lunella. He makes all the rides more hazardous in order to scare her and endanger Casey and Mimi, to force Lunella to make creative solutions. He rewinds the episode in order to find her fear (which in itself is a creative use of his powers), but ultimately uses his skills in deduction to figure it out. He even shows a kinder side through giving Mimi a warning free of charge.
He uses his powers quite creatively, and has a code of honor when making deals with Lunella as he keeps limits when using his omnipotence and reality warping.
Is He a Bastard?
The Beyonder is doing his job, and is willing to destroy humanity to fulfill that. That said, he keeps his end of the bargain when Lunella shows that humanity is worth saving. He does endanger Casey and Mimi in order to get to Lunella and win their bet, but said bet was only made after Lunella initiated their argument. Beyonder does show a nicer side in being kind to Lunella, but especially Mimi when he warns her of incoming danger.
Overall he works on Blue-and-Orange Morality and while willing to do some horrible things, does have a lot of honor and kindness to him.
Conclusion?
Goodbye Humans. Hello Beyonder!
Yes to Humpty and a big yes to Beyonder with S1 wrapped!
Now, then, for my own candidate...
What's the work?
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2023) is an excellent little Disney channel show starring Lunella Lafayette and her dinosaur's attempts to defend the Lower East Side. While Beyonder's a large-scale villain, Lunella also faces a number of... smaller foes. And though her enemies sometimes come from above, they all too often come from... below.
Who is the Rat King? What does he do?
The Rat King is a mischevious planner, a mutant rat who leads a legion of rats with a deeeevious central goal— steal himself some quality pizza. When his latest scheme to steal the "'Za" he so desires is foiled by the intervention of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, the Rat King proceeds to kick his plans into high gear, ordering his forces to begin a scheme against them to gain vengeance. When the class hamster Angel stumbles into the sewers due to his fear of Devil, the Rat King effortlessly integrates the adorable intruder into his plan, having him lured to his lair and telling him they are "kindred spirits," deceiving him before performing a surprisingly epic Villain Song and imprisoning the hamster.
Using Angel as bait for Lunella, Rat King's plans prevail— Lunella enters the lair only to find herself confronted by an Awesome, but Impractical rube goldberg-style trap which she casually sidesteps— only to quickly discover that said trap integrates the expectation that people will sidestep it into its construction as it wraps her up. Preparing for vengeance, Rat King then finds himself disrupted. An all-out battle begins for Lunella's tape recorder, the only thing that can stop him— and while Rat King spends most of the battle commanding his rats, when Devil comes near it he shows no hesitation in jumping out in front of the enormous dinosaur to try and catch the recorder. Once he knows he's beaten, Rat King takes off the crown and starts amicably fast-talking the heroes in an attempt to save himself, only to accidentally walk back off the edge thanks to the heroes warning him seconds too late...
...only for the episode's final scene to show him dragging himself back up from the sewers via driftwood. Long live the Rat King!
Is he magnificent?
Look, I'm not kidding you. A villain called the Rat King with an army of rats has no right being this awesome. He is a great example of The Chessmaster, he's formed an undersewer army of rats through sheer charisma and his initial plan (Which admittedly took months) is foiled only thanks to Lunella and Devil's intervention. He's instantly brewing a plot to avenge himself upon the pair and improvises fairly well— not to mention having a rube goldberg trap that literally expects the person to sidestep it due to its slow length, therefore tricking them into getting caught by it and even jumping out to grab the tape recorder when his opponent is a behemoth dinosaur. Rat King is good for a jokey, one-shot villain.
The only thing I'd hold against him is that his ending is... not the most dignified, with him ditching the crown, alliteration, etc. and trying to fast-talk his way out when he's cornered. I'm not gonna hold this against him— this isn't cowardice at all (He hasn't an inkling of it to him, again— guy went up against Devil without fear) and he simply recognizes he's beaten and, with his rats gone, is frustrated enough to drop the "king" act and try to talk things through with them while not noticing the ledge. Besides, the last shot of the episode shows him pulling himself back up so he's clearly still got some tenacity on display.
Overall, he's fine— not the best ending I've ever seen but villains have gotten way more humiliating jokey endings on this show and he's one of the only ones shown forcing himself back up after.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
He's a jokey kids' cartoon villain. Wants to steal pizza and avenge himself upon Lunella when she foils him, but he's fairly Affably Evil and even has a noticeable Pet the Dog moment where he lets Angel go with nothing more than a snide remark when he could've made the poor hamster suffer. He's goal-oriented, comical, and nowhere near too bad.
Conclusion?
Hail to the (Rat) King, baby.
Yes to Humpty and Rat King. Get that man his 'Za!
Yes to the Beyonder and the Rat King. Great job you two!
RIP Toriyama
Definite yes to the Beyonder and Rat King, good effortposts y'all!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The MILF Virus
Humpty, Beyonder, and Rat King.
So for the Wild ARMs page, how does this quote work?
Janus: During the battle with the Drifters, I pretended I was dead, allowing me time to fission my body. What the Drifters thought they defeated, and what you thought was dead, was just my duplicate figure.
Melody: So... even we were... fooled by the sacrifice's... allegiance...?
Marik: I will not let him... betray us... Gias... crush... him... Kanda... Es-trata... Ama..
Janus: It's not working, pale face. Out of magic, huh? Gias can't help you, now.
Leehalt: We were to exploit... the sacrifice... Not the... other way around... The sacrifice... bested us all...
Janus: Sacrifice, sacrifice! SHUT UP! What do you mean by that!? You are the ones I used as prey in order for me to become the ruler! You can all die in peace now... The future of this planet lies in the good hands of Sir Janus!
The wifi here sucks
Yes to the Beyonder and the Rat King
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lies and Violence!
Easy to the Beyonder and Rat King.
Yes to the Beyonder and the Rat King. So we have a CM Rat King and an MB one. Although not from the same series.
to the Beyonder and the Rat King
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We had a CM Rat King, but not anymore.
Easy to the Beyonder and the Rat King.
Beyonder and Rat King
Beyonder and Rat King
Beyonder, Rat King, Qi'ra and Humpty. I'd wondered about them all myself (aside from Humpty since he's the only one I haven't seen firsthand, though he's certainly a special case for the thread).
Ultimate Moral Compass
Beyonder and Rat Man
Man in the Yellow Hat
to Beyonder. Leaning for the Rat King, but what did his revenge plot entail and how common are they in the series?
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on May 16th 2023 at 11:28:57 AM
He/Him
Beyonder. Ends somewhat better than The Grand Galactic Inquisitor
Rat King. Why would the tape recorder stop him?
Lies and Violence!
What's the work?
Star Wars Resistance is the red-headed stepchild of Star Wars cartoons. Starring Kaz Xiondo, a spy and pilot for the Resistance, it's set on the Colossus, a flying fuel station/trading hub thing being hunted by the First Order. The FO isn't exactly picky about how they locate their targets, which brings us here.
Who is Ax Tagrin?
A wonderfully named bounty hunter with an electric axe, Tagrin is introduced capturing a resistance spy. Knowing he sent a distress signal, Tagrin waits for more rebels to arrive and has his agents spy on the streets, briefly cornering Kaz and friends when they come to help. Although they manage to get away, Tagrin allows them to find his ship, where he closes the hangar bay when they climb in to rescue the spy, and immediately begins flying to the FO to collect their bounties.
Kaz's droid manages to sabotage Tagrin's ship—he has it set to sabotage back with an electric shock, but the droid fights through the pain and crashes them. Tagrin proceeds to duel and defeat two of them as Kaz and the spy escape, knocking them out with some weird energy explosion thing from his axe.
Kaz and the spy take on the guises of Stormtroopers to save their friends, but Tagrin spies them and overhears them say where they parked their ship. He gets onboard and finds the current coordinates of the Colossus, sending them to the FO, while he lies in wait for Kaz and friends to return after their rescue mission. Sure enough, they do, but before Tagrin can lay the finishing blow in the ensuing fight Kaz's droid takes control of the ship and runs him over, allowing them to escape.
Mitigating factors?
A small role overall, but he's competent with what he's got. Sets traps, has contingencies in place to ensure his ship can't be hacked, is able to easily hunt down his quarries while scoring even bigger targets, etc.
@ jjj2, the tape recorder plays a high-pitched sound that causes the rats pain.
@ Purgatoryisof 2, his plan is to get her into a net and drop her into the sewers below... very classic death trap and not treated with much weight. Other villains do swear revenge but Rat King is by far the closest and least spiteful about it. Contrast with, say, Gravitas— who tries to crash an entire roller rink of people to kill Moon Girl.
Edited by Riley1sCool on May 16th 2023 at 10:09:12 AM
A good ol'![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
to Humpty, glad to see him being re-proposed.