Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Cursa! doesn't sound like a GDV to me tbh
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay, sorry, I’ll keep that in mind from now on. Also, did you just call me Fire Lord lol?
Edited by Fireball246 on Jan 25th 2023 at 7:42:13 AM
Professor Gigachad
So the previous proposal for a version of this character on the thread didn't end the best, but I do have one that should be a much more solid keeper.
What is the Work?
The End of Mushroom Kingdom is a Super Mario Bros. Fan Game that was originally posted on GameJolt. Unfortunately, the Nintendo Ninjas took the game down however you can still view it here. As the title suggests it follows the story of a massive attack on the Mushroom Kingdom completely destroying it. The one behind this attack:
Who is Bowser and What Has He Done?
Bowser, having got tired of his constant losses to the Mario Bros, had somehow figured out a way to create some kind of ultimate weapon by fusing one of the Power Stars with a poisoned Mushroom, creating the Z-Star as a result. Bowser would start off the game by launching a missile at the Mushroom Kingdom infused with the power of the Z-Star. The blast would end up completely annihilating the entire Mushroom Kingdom killing off nearly everyone inside of it besides the very few the had managed to survive such as Mario.
The Z-Star would go around corrupting various bosses that Mario would end up facing and eventually it would end up doing the same to Luigi. Forcing Mario to fight and eventually kill a corrupted Luigi. Eventually, Mario confronts Bowser directly but he has kidnapped Princess Peach and infuses her with the power of the Dark Star and she starts fighting Mario. Mario is forced to end up battling and killing Peach as well and after doing so goes over to fight Bowser.
Mario fights with Bowser who is powering himself up with the Z-Star. However, it doesn't matter as Bowser is still defeated by Mario, however, the victory is very hollow as everything is still destroyed as the result. However, the benevolent Time Star comes and offers Mario the chance to go back in time and stop Bowser before he is able to destroy the Mushroom Kingdom. Mario ends up fighting with the Z-Star and destroying it, and then Bowser vows to return but Mario knows that Bowser can no longer be allowed to run free and just straight up kills him (jeez).
If you choose to stay in the current timeline Mario escapes from the collapsing airship. He does survive and it ends on the semi-hopeful note that the Mushroom Kingdom can rise again but everyone that died isn't coming back.
Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Unlike Bowser's canon counterpart who is like 400 million lightyears away from every being this trope for a wide variety of reasons. This version of Bowser completely lacks any redeeming traits, there is no Bowser Jr., he only views Peach as a useful tool and doesn't mind getting her killed, he isn't shown to have any kind of genuine care for his troops either.
Bowser in this game is also taken completely seriously. His complete and near-total destruction of the entire Mushroom Kingdom is played for the maximum amount of horror possible, everyone treats him as a monster and are absolutely horrified at what he has done and Mario, after knowing what he has done feels Bowser is too dangerous to be allowed to keep going anymore and he kills him. Honestly, this game if anything veers more into the overly edgy territory, however, it does at least have a happy ending if you choose to go back in time, and even if you don't it does still end with Bowser defeated and the semi-hopeful idea that the Kingdom can be rebuilt.
Another thing I will mention is that Kamek mentions that the Z-Star can destroy planets but there isn't really any proof that he is truthful or just exaggerating. Even if he was though there is no real proof that Bowser is actually holding it back or just simply hasn't gotten to using the Z-Star for that either. Even if he was holding that back though, which isn't impossible, that would fall under Pragmatic Villainy, after all he can't rule over anything if it is destroyed.
Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?
He does meet it. He doesn't have the largest rap sheet but his biggest atrocity destroying the entire Mushroom Kingdom and nearly everyone inside is an utterly horrendous action giving him hundreds to thousands of death and the nearly complete genocide of multiple species in the form of the Toads and Yoshis. This is not at all played as a generic cartoon kind of destroying. Just to give you an idea in the first level of the game we see the dead bodies of multiple Toads and Yoshis in the background, and multiple times throughout the game people comment that nearly everyone in the Kingdom is dead.
Final Verdict?
Surprising yes.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 26th 2023 at 2:30:00 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
to Bowser
Goku Black
Cursa.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Cursa and Bowser.
Cursa.
Cursa and Bowser.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Bowser.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bowser. Also, ACW, do you know how to link pages when you’re editing proposals? I will gladly do so.
Edited by Fireball246 on Jan 25th 2023 at 8:32:09 AM
to Cursa, one of the rare Mario villains whose immediate goal is to psychologically break someone lol
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
In this case, it'd be VideoGame/MarioPlusRabbidsKingdomBattle
Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So this would be Mario’s 5th CM?
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Yup. Still not enough for a Complete Monster page for the Mario franchise though sadly.
The Heinous Standard for Mario bros is fucking jacked, what with Dimentio, King Boo’s Villainous Breakdown and Megabug/Cursa trying to destroy the multiverse.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Yup, pretty much.
Well done. Yes to Cursa!
SO, I have a quote to propose...from Black Sails, the one CM, Edward "Ned" Low:
to Bowser
Just to check so I'm sure I'm getting the new rules right, am I able to post an EP at present?
Go for it!
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
And a to Mario’s version of The End and the fangame Bowser.
Showtime!
to Cursa and fangame Bowser
Cheers!
Time to EP a character I’ve been sitting on for a while. Just to warn you in advance: this one is dark.
I’ll be doing EP’s from the Jack Caffery series by Mo Hayder in the coming months, a series of gruesome crime novels all centring around the titular DI Jack Caffery. In the meantime I’d like to talk about the stand alone Belgian film adaptation of the second novel in the series, The Treatment. In this case, it's not the main villain we’ll be focusing on but rather the secondary one.
Nick Cafmeyer is a police detective with a dark past. Investigating a disturbing serial kidnapping case by an abductor known only as The Troll, Cafemeyer must also battle with his demons. When he was only a child, his brother Bjorn was abducted in front of him and never seen again. The man responsible? None other than Nick's neighbour, a charming gentleman by the name of Ivan Plettinckx.
What has he done?
An aging paedophile, Ivan groomed both the Cafmeyer brothers and abused them, before abducting Bjorn and giving him up to another local paedophile called Nancy. Secretly the head of a prolific local child porn ring, Ivan not only abused Bjorn multiple times and filmed it, he also did the same to dozens of other children as well, with his tapes being sold on to multiple "clients" and being left to be discovered by Nick later on. Bjorn grew up all alone in a caravan, with Ivan returning to abuse him even more over the years, eventually rendering the boy mentally disabled due to the constant abuse and malnutrition. Despite being the prime suspect for Bjorn’s abduction, Ivan was ultimately let go due to lack of evidence despite everyone knowing he was guilty.
As Nick grew up, he was unable to let go of his past and continued to reside in his childhood home in the hopes he would find something out about his brother. Sensing this, Ivan enacted a campaign of terror on Nick; horrifically taunting him by sending letters to him like: My Dearest Nick, he has been sold to a club in Amsterdam. He likes little boys now too And: Dear Nick, he starved to death, that is the truth, as well as breaking into his garden multiple times and vandalizing it.
Diagnosed with terminal cancer and realizing that a mentally ill associate of his called The Troll was on a kidnapping spree, Ivan decided to “reunite” him with his brother, purely so he could take pleasure in Nick seeing what he had done to him as a last cruel taunt. Breaking into his garden whilst Nick is celebrating his birthday, Ivan laughingly poured animal bones onto the floor in front of all the horrified guests, taking evident pleasure in leading Nick to believe that the remains are that of Bjorn. Knowing that Nick believes him to be connected to The Troll’s abductions, Ivan waited for Nick to appear at his house to interrogate him. When Nick appeared, Ivan prepared a noose to hang himself with and deposited all of his “material” in a room for Nick to find. Feigning remorse and tears, Ivan stubbornly refused to disclose the location of the Troll and stop his kidnap spree, before smirking and noting that he can still screw Nick around with his bullshit even at his age. Ivan then hangs himself in front of Nick and, despite dying, faces no real justice for his crimes.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?
You must be joking.
Heinous Standard?
Time for the very gross part of this EP (as if what came before wasn’t bad enough!). The main villain of this film, The Troll, has hands down the worst MO I have ever come across in a crime drama. He (deep breath) forces Father’s to rape their own Son’s in front of him. Before you ask, no, he does not qualify as it’s shown that he’s legitimately delusional. Ivan, however? Ivan’s MO is almost as bad and it’s shown that he had even more victims to his name than The Troll, as he has dozens of video tapes in his home all of which contain different children that he kidnapped and abused in a similar manner to Bjorn, and we even get brief glimpses of them. Likewise, Ivan serves as a Greater-Scope Villain for the film as a whole. Despite not actively aiding the Troll, Ivan refuses to reveal what he knows about him and does not give a shit who the Troll hurts, thus enabling all of the horrific events of the film that he's not directly a part of. Thus, despite the Troll’s horrific MO, Ivan just has him beat in numbers and in the total amount of suffering he’s responsible for.
All that considered then? Ivan makes it.
Conclusion?
Yes.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jan 25th 2023 at 4:48:54 PM
I guess I can say![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Curse. Though Firelord you are only supposed to have 2 characters active for voting at once. You likely didn't know so maybe it can be let slide but that is something you should probably keep in mind for the future.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 25th 2023 at 8:36:45 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes