Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hesbeth, Conrad and Christina.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Paradigm
What is the work? The Expanse is a four-issue comic book that serves as an interquel of, you guessed it, The Expanse. Taking place between the last two seasons, this particular short story follows Martian veteran Bobbie Drapper and her investigations into what appears to be a simple gunrunning operation, except the truth is far, far worse.
Who is he? Kal, a former colleague of Bobbie who went through basic training with her at the military academy, is a seemingly mild-mannered businessman looking for potential clients in the many communities of space—Earth, Mars, the Belt, everything is fair game. In truth, Kal is a high-ranking member and a representative of the Consortium, a shadowy conglomerate of human traffickers that trick desperate people into a false sense of security—whole families and children included—and then ship them off to an alien world to be made into fresh slaves for a "new society", even illegal weapon sales are used as a front to kidnap more people. With Kal overseeing everything, the victims are kept behind bars and in deplorable conditions, one of Kal's goons perfectly describes their situation.
When Bobbie finally exposes Kal and the operation, Kal makes several failed attempts to recruit her to his side and non-chalantly decides to kill her once he realizes that she is incorruptible, but she's saved by the timely intervention of the local police force. The rest of the Consortium, disappointed in Kal for failing to keep the operation a secret, release Kal from prison only to trick him into a false sense of security before disposing of him.
Mitigating Qualities? Hell no! He's evidently something of a leader in the Consortium and the only "recruiter" that we see, he's pretty much the face of the whole thing.
Heinous? The world of The Expanse has mass murderers, radical terrorists, mad scientists, pedophiles, all sorts of scum. Kal is something that the TV show continuity hadn't explored before, a disgusting human trafficker and slaver of men, women and children of all ages.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 2nd 2023 at 12:31:53 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
to Kai
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, unlike the show.
Not the Eye
Hesbeth, Christina, and Kal
Edited by Arawn999 on May 2nd 2023 at 8:39:04 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
Okay you know... Looking back at the comic now. Yeah nevermind, sorry it seems like they're not killed after all. My bad everyone, imma just go with a no on Cartoon Paradigm and and my comic Paradigm as well. Sorry for the misinformation 
, it was at least worth a try.
No apologies needed!
Astolfo my Man
Kai
If the former I get where you’re coming from and honestly agree (though they benefit from more advanced technology and having had millions of years to terrorize the galaxy), but if the latter I question the fairness of setting the heinousness standard using something not set in the same continuity as the series being discussed.
Ah well. Not like I really expected Paradigm to get many upvotes anyhow, though I was pleasantly surprised he managed to retake Big Bad status in the final episode.
Edited by Arawn999 on May 2nd 2023 at 8:52:27 AM
to Hesbeth, Christina, and Kal
Ultimate Moral Compass
Christina and Kal
Paradigm, Christina
Kai Paradigm
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Kal.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm a no to show!Paradigm. IIRC the gene-slamming is bad enough, but he's also hampered by generic villainy and goofy moments that his more serious future counterpart doesn't have. I'm fine with comic!Paradigm, I think.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Alrighty, with the standalone Crow comics out of the way, who's ready for crossovers? I'm still debating one crossover potential, but in the meantime...
What’s the Work?
The Crow/Razor: Kill the Pain is a crossover comic from 1998 that saw James O'Barr's Eric Draven teaming up with Everette Hartsoe's Nicole "Razor" Mitchell to take down a monster that threatens Queen City.
Published by London Night Studios, the series is told... confusingly. In typical London Night Studios fashion, the story spans four issues, then the final issue, which is labeled #0 instead of #5, then we get the actual Final Chapter, then a "Lost Chapter". Confused?
This crossover is far more of a Razor story than a Crow story (considering Razor's creator Hartsoe wrote the story; O'Barr only provided some cover art), especially with a villain who is more closer to Razor's backstory than that of Eric's.
Who is He?
Mr. Pain is a sadistic demon, and a self declared "Connoisseur of Pain" who enjoys devouring tortured souls.
What has he done?
Posing as an underground human cult leader who leads a band of chaotic punks who do things like gun down an entire gang to steal their weapons, Pain also frequently enjoys having his way with his chained up harem. Pain primarily enjoys causing suffering and death wherever he goes, at one point testing his latest blade on one of his own men while admitting to loving the sound of humans screaming.
Pain is introduced murdering one of his surviving men for not being strong enough to stop Eric from killing him before the mook could even say anything. Pain, tired of his men getting killed by Eric and Razor, announces to his men that "It’s time to take the city streets for our own selfish needs. We’ve been hiding too long, I want blood to flow like rivers!"
Pain instigates a riot at the mayor’s political rally, ordering his men to "take what you want! Leave nothing to waste" as multiple innocents are gunned down and beaten to death. Pain’s able to use the chaos to gun down the mayor, then kills a scared child immediately afterward as he blends into the crowd unnoticed.
When Razor arrives at his lair with intent to kill him, Pain ends up subduing her after she tries to put up a good fight. Pain forces the captive Razor to relive the moment in her childhood where her father was gunned down by mobsters, all so he can get high off of her suffering. It’s even revealed that Pain was ultimately responsible for Razor’s lifestyle, having a guy who raised her after the death of her dad endure suffering at the hands of his wife and kid dying, even glad that he didn’t kill himself because that would mean the end of his torment; all because he saw potential in the young Razor to be a fine warrior.
Admitting to Eric that he cut up his own lover without regret, Pain invites Eric to his lair just so he can destroy his soul. Once Eric arrives and uses his swarm of crows to cut up his men, Pain, in retaliation, summons a copy of his deceased girlfriend Shelly, then traps Eric in a nightmare where he relives the day Shelly died.
But after Eric and Razor snap out of their funk and gang up on Pain, the demon lies dead. But, feeling bad for Razor and all she’s had to go through, Eric uses his Crow powers to erase Razor’s memory of the entire crossover event. Because apparently he can do that.
Redeeming Qualities?
None, really. His introduction has him musing to a snake he keeps in a cage about how he doesn’t understand why reptiles are often portrayed as terrible. Thing is, not only is this snake never mentioned or seen again afterwards (if the snake’s a pet, it doesn’t even have a name), but since Pain is a demon taking on a human form, it’s more akin to Vecna’s love of spiders than legitimate love or care. It's primarily meant to show how fucked up Pain is (since snakes are usually synonymous with fear and evil).
But aside from that, nothing else. Pain goes out of his way to state how he doesn't give a shit about anybody, from his own men, to the people who love him back. All Pain values is control and fear, and that's all he strives for.
Heinousness?
While this crossover is its own thing, Pain still easily hits the mark. He enjoys the suffering of human souls, has plans to slaughter everybody in the city, and starts a violent riot just so he can kill the city's mayor.
Conclusion
Keeper
"No running in the halls!"
I am new to this, so I do not know how to add a character to Complete Monster. However, it surprises me that Margaret Robinson from The Amazing World of Gumball is not here. She is designed from the ground up to be someone who is evil just for the sake of it, using manipulation to act sweet, and then go out of her way to cause as much pain and misery as possible. One time, when Darwin was choking, she happily watched him with a Slasher Smile. The only thing that makes Margaret happy is making others miserable, so that has got to count for something, right? Let me know what you think.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Mr. Pain
nah, she's far from this trope, she's specifically Played for Laughs especially with her evil being played as a joke entirely. She's like a another blatant parody of a pure evil character in a nutshell. Welcome to the thread btw.
Edited by Powermaster201 on May 2nd 2023 at 1:45:02 PM
Not the Eye
to Mr Pain.
Welcome to the thread. When it comes to Margaret, while she is undeniably horrible person, she is Played for Laughs way to often and isn’t even so evil deeds wise.
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 2nd 2023 at 10:35:24 AM
Lord of Space
Since I have 2 active EPs, I will use my current last free spot for my second candidate from Whiskers.
What is the work?
Whiskers is a short point-and-click horror game where you play as William Johnson, a private detective investigating of twisted lunatic known as "Mr. Whiskers". William ends up being the latest victim of him.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Winston DePorte is one of the many people kidnapped by Mr. Whiskers. The difference between him and the others, however, is that he already was a maniac even before being kidnapped, leading him to willingly join Mr. Whiskers and turn himself into a mutilated boar-like creature, "the Boarman", due to his hatred towards humankind and due to a personal conviction that being an animal gives him the courage to eat human meat (and since in a kitchen we see a human leg, and his character sheet mentions he likes medium rare cooked legs, looks like becoming a boar did give him the courage he wanted).The Boarman became an important asset in Whiskers' game, sewing animal masks on the victims' faces (something which he does clearly out of sadism, since he refused to do it to Ugly Ben because the latter volunteered) and being the direct reason the survivors have to hide in the sewers (since it's pretty clear the Boarman has 0 problems with killing as we find a guy stabbed by him in a dying state, and he might not be his only victim).
When encountering the protagonist, the Boarman attempts to sew a lion mask on him and hunts him down for the rest of the game after the latter manages to escape from him.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Nope. A character sheet does mention he liked the beer one of the survivors made him (even though it was poisoned, but he didn't even feel it), but it's way too ambiguous to consider it redeeming.Are they bad enough?
Now, it's true that the Boarman serves as The Dragon to Mr. Whiskers, but he's also a more direct threat compared to his boss and unlike him he has no supernatural powers.He also seems to be independent enough from him since there's no indication that it was Mr. Whiskers to order him to sew animal masks on people's faces, which could imply that it was a decision of the Boarman himself.
Final verdict?
Yes to me.Edited by CapitanoNox on May 2nd 2023 at 7:38:41 PM
Cross-wired freak
Astolfo my Man
Mr. Pain and De Porte
Okay. I knew she was more harmless than most of the examples, but I didn’t know that examples that are Played for Laughs don’t count. Thanks for the feedback.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Does Comic Paradigm actually kill the soldiers who see him transform into Piranoid? ‘Cause in the corresponding scene in the show he just tosses them around and blasts them with his Arm Cannon.