Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Fair enough. Vacher at least comes awfully close, though.
So, my next....I've got a few from a recent series and....
The Big Bad trio of the first game is up, but we've got a few more to discuss.
What's the work?
Blasphemous is a fascinating dark fantasy Metroidvania set in the land of Cvstodia. Pronounced "Custodia"...Custodia has a grievously dangerous culture and religion centered about martyrdom, where suffering and penance is not only accepted, but actively desired. A mysterious, divine force known as "The Grievous Miracle" is something worshiped along Cvstodia, but that also takes the wishes of the people and makes it agonizing and torturous in many instances, twisting them into monsters.
Our hero is the silent warrior known as "The Penitent One," a masked figure who is the last survivor of the Brotherhood of Silent Sorrow who undertook a quest to slay the holy Pontiff who ruled the theocracy from the church known as the Mother of Mothers. The Brotherhood was wiped out years ago, and only the Penitent One has returned. Undertaking a quest to commit the act of greatest blasphemy: the slay the holy pontiff Escribar and liberate Cvstodia.
Our villain?
Who is His Holiness Escribar?
The high pontiff who ruels Cvstodia's theocracy and enforced the horrific martyrdon culture where people are made to suffer to gain the favor of the Grievous Miracle. Escribar grew disgusted with the "impurity" of the flock, for not being perfect and turned his throne away, causing the Age of the Turned Throne to shoiw the abandonment of the Miracle. But the Miracle manifested in Escribar, transforming him into a great tree. In a vast catastrophe, Escribar was left at the pinnacle of a mountain of ash with his empty throne.
But Escribar transcended humanity in his new form and became instead the enforcer of the High Wills, the immortal tyrants behind the Miracle. Tempting others to take the throne, hordes of religious figures ran for it, only to be devoured by the ashes and twisted into monsters, the Punished. Beasts of rage and faith to carry out the sadistic will of Escribar, who was now the Last Son of the Miracle, tasked with sustaining the eternal reign of the High Wills.
Which meant Escribar is enforcing the theocracy and torment as long as he elevates himself up high. The Brotherhood of Silent Sorrows began to doubt exactly that Escribar had the best of Cvstodia within his own interests.
But learning their plans, Escribar sent one of his enforcers, Crystana, to deal with it. The entire Brotherhood were slaughtered and the horrific torments of the people continued.
Ultimately in the good and canon ending, the Penitent One finds everything he needs and ascends to face Escribar, who learns he is nothing more than a glorified watchdog for the High Wills.
To expose the puppet masters, the Penitent One (and a reformed Crystana), take on the pontiff and in the act of blasphemy, the Penitent One fulfills his oath: with one strike, he slices Escribar in half and frees the realm of Cvstodia from his reign forever.
Mitigating issues?
Blasphemous lore is subtle and quite deep, too. Escribar is a monstrosity of a man, one who elevates himself at the expense of others while embodying the ruthless and cruel hypocrisy that lies in the heart of the church. A servitor of the High Wills who, it's indicated, knows the truth of the Miracle and how the suffering only feeds their immortal reign, Escribar happily carries it out and has the entire Brotherhood of Silent Sorrow eradicated for plotting against him.
Everything we see is done by the High Wills, but Escribar is the perpretrator of their theocracy. It's said he's Affably Evil and uh....no.
Escribar is polite but when he reveals his true form as the Last Son, he reveals himself to be hateful, mendacious, greedy and not at all a nice man. He puts on an act of a pious old priest, but press him and you see the grasping hatred under it.
Conclusion?
I'd say a happy yes to His Holiness.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Escribar
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like a textbook Faux Affably Evil.
Yes to Escribar. Will he go before or after the Wills? They're a higher tier, but Escribar seems The Heavy.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Put him after, I say. I'll have a couple for Blasphemous 2
for the Lady
for Crow
for Escribar
Not the Eye
Escribar
....Phenomenal
for Eye, Lady, Crow, and Escribar.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for EXE, Rampardos, Scorpion, and Vacher.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Pablo Escribar
Caesar
Yes to Crow and Escribar
- Batman "Superheavy" arc & Task Force Z: Mr. Bloom is a terrifying, unfailingly jovial supervillain who was once a "nobody" until he underwent experiments that gave him mysterious abilities. Determined to cleanse Gotham of its weakness and create a new, chaotic land in its stead, Bloom spreads his mutating "seeds" across Gotham and convinces thousands of men, women and children to use the seeds to gain power like his, leaving out the fact that the seeds mutate them into monstrous extensions of Bloom. Going on a rampage of death alongside his mutated followers, Bloom ravages Gotham and tries to set off an explosion that will take out the entire state. Though beaten, Bloom survives and creates the drug "Lazarus Resin" for Powers International, slaughtering the rest of the research staff and engineering a variety of lethal schemes to wipe out everyone else who knows about the secrets of the drug. After putting Gotham and Man-Bat through torturous experiments, Bloom tries to kill off Task Force Z and then sell the Resin to create a zombie army for the highest bidder.
to Governor of Marv, the Eye, the Lady, Crow and Escribar.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Escribar. Does anyone count in the sequel?
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
That was why I say I'll have a couple in Blasphemous 2
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ravok, two things:
- Is Task Force Z considered a part of the Batfamily? Or should it go on Batman and the main DC page?
- Where on the Batman (and DC page?) should it go? New 52 I'm guessing, but where specifically? Recurring or other?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aight this was one of the Father Brown candidates that Eruptor was going to do within their and MGD's mini collab but they've not posted in the thread since June so it's been plenty of time.
"Season 2's "Shadow Of the Scaffold", involves Father Brown reinvestigating the case of a woman named Violet who is to be executed for the murder of her abusive husband Ivan Fernsley, whose body was never found. She's almost hung before she reveals that she's pregnant. With time against her, Violet asks Father Brown to prove her innocence. Said investigation leads to him uncovering a series of dark secrets and who's responsible for this? An old lady named Ethel Fernsley."
Who is Ethel Fernsley and what has she done?
The owner of a pig farm, Ethel is a seemingly innocent, apparently paralysed mourning mother over her son Ivan. Determined that Violet is the murderer she forces that mindset onto her two remaining sons, Wilfred and Alfie. During the episode, Ivan's finger bone is discovered within a pig stomach at the butchers and the teeth of a former labourer named Piotr are also discovered. Father Brown then discovers that all of the jewellery within one of Alfie's taxidermy station were found lying about the farm and belonged to other former workers.
When her Wilfred is searching about after realising the cause of Alfie's jewellery source, Ethel uses the family truck to drive back over him crushing him to death. With Violet's hanging imminent due to the test coming back negative, Father Brown realises that Ethel has been faking her disability to walk and has killed multiple workers by blocking the flue tubes to the barn they sleep in, leaving them to choke and having their bodies eaten by pigs.
Realising she's been caught, Ethel makes an escape for it and when Brown and Sid give chase, she locks them in a barn and has pigs swarm in with the intent of them eating the pair. This is when Father Brown explains Ethel's incredibly petty motive: she strives on attention and with her putting on the facade of being chair-bound it makes her the centre of it when she needs aid and the murders (apart from Wilf) were done to keep her facade up when she felt threatened although Ethel isn't the murderer of Ivan, Violet is the one who did it because of his savage abuse to her. Ethel is caught though when she tries to drive off (with not caring that there were people in her way) before being cut off. She's then promptly arrested with scathing defiance and sentenced to be executed for her murders.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope. Ethel's entire motive is just so her faking her disability remains hidden. Now she mourns Ivan's death...except she's only doing it in front of people to make it seem to the characters that Violet is the bad one and there wasn't a batch of murders behind her and she murders one of her own sons herself to cover her tracks. The way the episode frames it is that she saw Ivan as useful muscle for her so no I don't think it's genuine.
Heinous Standard?
Clears the standard considering all she is, is an elderly lady, Ethel's body count is unconfirmed specifically but Alfie's taxidermy room has dozens pieces of jewellery, they found multiple sets of human teeth in the pigs stomach and she's arrested for mass murder in the end so she's fine in that regard. Her motive is fundamentally petty which hones in how much of a twisted hag she is.
Final Verdict?
What say we?
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 9th 2023 at 12:19:47 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
to Ethel Fernsley.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ethel
Ethel
Caesar
@ACW: Task Force Z heavily features Red Hood/Jason Todd which is Bat-family adjacent, so I'd say just put him on the Batman page under the New 52 folder in the "Others" section, right below the Batgirl example I guess with the addendum of "Batman's 'Superheavy' arc & Task Force Z:"
Edited by Ravok on Sep 9th 2023 at 4:30:02 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Oh and a minor bit about Ethel I forgot to mention (thanks MGD for reminding me!), Ethel fully encouraged her son's abuse on Violet. Ivan's abuse was bad enough to cause her a miscarriage.
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 9th 2023 at 12:26:10 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
to Ethel
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ethel. Either of the sons count?
What is it with being a Evil Cripple who has bodies Fed to Pigs? There's also Mason Verger (multiple incarnations), as well as Criminal Minds' Mason Verger (and it just hit me; that can't be a coincidence).
EDIT: Pending:
- The Bill: Peter Williams (Atlantis)
- The Adventures of Prince Achmed: Magician (Ravok)
- Maktu (Scraggle)
- The Hellbound Heart: Frank Cotton (Scraggle)
- "Duel of the Double Crossers!" & "Death Race to Oblivion!": Mongul (Snowy)
Edited by ACW on Sep 9th 2023 at 7:44:47 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Ivan's only claim is the nasty abuse but while you can see how badly it hurt Violet, he's completely offscreen as a character. Wilfred got killed for looking about when he realises that the Flue tunnels were blocked, Alfie is a bit off but he's ultimately just a weirdo who likes Taxidermy but not complicit with his mother's murders.
Funnily enough she's not an Evil Cripple since her disability is faked.
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 9th 2023 at 12:46:58 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I'm gonna be taking a hiatus from these threads until the problem with the new admin (i.e. the new admin himself) is resolved. If someone else wants to write up my candidates, they're free game.
Yes to Crow. Honestly, I thought he may've done just enough even in the one game, so yeah.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts