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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#13203: Apr 14th 2024 at 7:13:28 PM

I was about to ask "Are the tentacles even sentient?"...

...but yes, if his mind's melded with the AI, then cut

Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime The Prosecutor from Newfoundland Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#13211: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:07:49 AM

So I have a possible cut from the MCU; specifically The Punisher (2017).

  • "Scar Tissue": Arthur Walsh was the caretaker at the Ray of Hope children's home decades ago, where he took advantage of his position to sexually abuse the boys under his care. When the young Billy Russo resisted, Walsh broke his arm. Walsh's actions went on for years before one of his victims reported him, but when an amnesiac Billy visits him decades later, Walsh only says it was unfair that he lost his pension and went to prison, mocking Billy's dead mother and both his mental and physical scars, accepting no responsibility for his actions or how his abuse helped turn Billy into a killer. Though a retired man by the start of the series and only appearing in a single episode, Walsh stands out as a frighteningly realistic child molester in the MCU.

My problem with Walsh is, while he's a detestable prick, I feel he falls flat with Offscreen Villainy. With Walsh, his only onscreen victim is Billy, and while we do see the psychological damage that Walsh's abuse inflicted on him, he's still the only example we see. Walsh mentions other victims in passing, but that passing mention was just that. Walsh himself only ever appears in the present day, so his past abuse falls into "Show, Don't Tell" territory.

Everything we're told about Walsh's past, we're just told of it; no flashbacks of Billy's time at the home, no investigations of Walsh's history, or other past victims being shown. Nothing. Sure he confesses to having other victims, but with Offscreen Villainy, we need something more tangible for the confession to back up. Especially compared to two other child predators within the MCU.

In Daredevil (2015), Frank has an encounter with (and quickly kills) a sleazy pawn shop owner, who offers him tapes that include twelve year olds. In Jessica Jones (2015), Jessica looks into a blackmail victim and finds he is running a CP studio in his apartment, and looks through his camera with an aghast expression. So that's two other child predators, both of which have more tangible patterns than Walsh, who's only backed up by words.

With this, I don't see how Walsh himself holds up.

Edited by Beast on Apr 15th 2024 at 7:08:44 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#13212: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:29:15 AM

Personally a keep to Walsh, think there's enough there and it's unique enough for the MCU as a whole.

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#13213: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:40:07 AM

I think he seeing an actual victim would actually push him over the other two

Keep Walsh but I see your point

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#13214: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:43:53 AM

I say keep Walsh

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime The Prosecutor from Newfoundland Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
jlvs200s Jogo from The Netherlands (Troper in training) Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
Jogo
#13217: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:01:30 AM

Keep Walsh

Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 15th 2024 at 5:01:38 PM

"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#13219: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:54:54 AM

Keep Walsh, the guy is depraved as hell.

TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
renenarciso2 Since: Sep, 2017
#13222: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:05:54 AM

Keep Walsh.

While I do understand the Offstage Villainy concerns, the very nature of such abhorent crimes will often necessitate that they happen as offstage as possible in most fiction, so I think the standards for Offstage Villainy are different here.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#13223: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:18:01 AM

I am a keep for Walsh, particularly with the OV loosenings from a couple years back. We see a traumatized victim so I think that's enough for a pattern.

The First man
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#13224: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:38:01 AM

The fact that DD and JJ have similar villains gives me pause though.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#13225: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:39:03 AM

ACW we explained those cases are not focusing on the actual victims or the effects it had

So Walsh would stand out

Not a strong keeper but it does push him

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Apr 15th 2024 at 10:39:36 AM


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