Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The Moron
Sky you've said this repeatedly and the answer has always been you can do whatever you want to do with your candidates on that page. I don't know why this keeps coming up, especially now of all times.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That's what I've been doing for some time (though I should find my older ones).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Ultimate Lifeform
Cut Beatrice
The Ultimate Lifeform
Also, just to come clean, I have done a bit of browsing of things like the City of Heroes wiki to get all the details, or refresh my memory on villains I had already fought but wanted to make sure of certain things. Is that okay? Especially since I know the Co H wiki (not the one by Fandom) actually posts the verbatim dialogue in sequences where it is present. But I have played through all the arcs I pulled from. Is that okay when I can't recall every detail off the top of my head?
Edited by ForgoLight on Jan 9th 2024 at 5:27:45 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I recommend telling us about before you make that post so that one member can fill you on the rest of the details.
Sky if you wanna curate those pages knock yourself out. I frequently forget mine and “EP > Writeup > Post to YMMV is a nice, straightforward process. Having to remember to cross list on sandboxes is overcomplicating the manner. I get it’s got a functional purpose but repeatedly going “Hey guys, you should really listen and start doing this” is getting to be too much. You can take the steps you’d like to see those pages filled out or understand most of us aren’t inclined to rush to fill them out. We’ve discussed this before, which is what Star is trying to highlight to you.
Likewise I don’t think we need to make Forgo jump through hoops… be transparent if you relied on another source, like I did when I put up Keel from the Evangelion Japanese only game but I don’t see why we need to get “one member” to “fill you on the rest of the details.”
The Draftsman of Doom
Fair enough, 43. Admittedly, it's not like I haven't added links to people's candidates on the sandbox myself before when they haven't themselves.
Feels good, don't it?
Showtime!
So, I have a non-Echidna related cut proposal, would it be okay to bring up now? Or should I wait until tomorrow?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I'm fine with you bringing it up now.
Lizzid people!
What is it?
Fire away
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Open fire. What's the cut?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Showtime!
hang on, working on it in another window rn
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Showtime!
I think we need to cut Kor Phaeron, from Warhammer 40K.
Writeup for reference:
- Kor Phaeron, the Black Cardinal of the Word Bearers Legion, was Erebus's co-conspirator in the Horus Heresy. Formerly a priest on the feudal world of Colchis, Kor Phaeron had been banished from the Covenant of Colchis for his radical, violent religious views. Kidnapping the young Primarch Lorgar Aurelian and exterminating the desert nomads who had been raising him, Kor Phaeron horrifically abused him as he groomed him into his agent of revenge against the Covenant, leading to a devastating civil war. Years later, when Kor Phaeron was serving under Lorgar as the Word Bearers' First Captain, he began conspiring with Erebus to overthrow the Imperium and sell the galaxy out to Chaos for their own benefit. Corrupting Lorgar to Chaos and seeding cults on the worlds they attacked, Kor Phaeron and Erebus's machinations led to the Horus Heresy, which shattered the Imperium and killed trillions of people. During the attack on Calth, Kor Phaeron stabbed Roboute Guilliman with the Athame blade, hoping to corrupt the Primarch to the Dark Gods. When the Horus Heresy failed and the Word Bearers fled to the Daemon World Sicarus, Kor Phaeron found a prophecy that told of Chaos's ultimate victory at the cost of his life; in response, he slew the prophet Jepeth and destroyed his prophecies, undermining the Word Bearers and the Chaos Gods he claimed to serve to save his own skin.
When he was first proposed in 2018, all of the discussion was on whether or not he meets the ludicrous heinous standard. Having been reading the Horus Heresy, I do think he passes that. However, I think as awful a parent as he is his, relationship with Lorgar still has mitigating aspects.
- In The First Heretic, he responds to Lorgar running off to a fight with one of the loyalist primarchs he probably can't win with "real fear, real sorrow, beneath the anger and panic". All of the other kindness he shows on page in this book could be manipulation but this is pretty clearly framed as his real feelings breaking through.
- In Lorgar: Bearer of the Word, he's a terrible dad, but he's also glad when Lorgar calls him father for the first time and sees it as "reciprocation", his fantasies of glory and authority eventually turn to fantasies of the world turned to worship both him and Lorgar, and at one point he comforts an unconscious Lorgar when there's noone else around to keep up appearances.
- In the short story "Children of Sicarus" while he does choose not to kill himself to teleport the rest of his forces to Lorgar's side, it's a lot less of a conclusive rejection of Chaos than the writeup makes it seem. His objection is more "your prophecies suck, I will do much more for Chaos alive" and he seems glad at the idea of conquering the daemon world Sicarus specifically for Chaos' sake
I think there's enough consistency here to say Kor's relationship with Lorgar is complicated enough to be redeeming and he should be cut.
Edited by Libraryseraph on Jan 9th 2024 at 9:39:21 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?Eh, seems like just enough, cut Kor
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Cut Kor.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Cut Beatrice and Kor.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Speaking of Beatrice, if a candidate was cut because their sources were plagiarized, then if another proposes them with original research, can they be approved?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Showtime!
Yeah, it's not quite as harsh as a "non-qualifying" cut, where you need new, strong evidence
Gentle Laborer
Cut Kor... Was never much a fan of the Word Bearers.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Ah great. I have enough familiarity with Blue Archive, so I can re-propose Beatrice when I have the time and research.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Kut Kor
"No running in the halls!"
I think we should at least scrutinize some of their past contributions, and act based on our findings.
Additionally, I think we should start linking the effortposts in CMs By Troper and its subpages on a regular basis so that we can use the effortposts as a reference. Notwithstanding the fact that certain contributors neglect to list their own candidates in the sandbox to begin with (which is something we need to fix, but I digress).
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 9th 2024 at 8:17:21 AM
Feels good, don't it?