A thread offering assistance and support for tropers covering Marvel's many, many stories and characters.
This includes the shared Marvel Universe, but not the cultural Disney juggernaut known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). One of our aims is to disentangle tropes and characters from the MCU adaptations from pages about their source material.
This scope does cover Marvel comic, manga and webcomic stories, characters and tropes that are unconnected to that shared Marvel Universe - e.g. their licensed Star Wars, Alien and Predator stories.
As of September 2021, there were about 27,000 Marvel comics published across 4,900 or so different series. They started publishing in the 1940s as Timely Comics, then became Atlas Comics and - eventually - Marvel. As a consequence, Marvel have a lot of Comic Book and Characters pages on the site (and have recently started publishing Webcomics as well).
The sheer scale of this means that there's so much material (with dozens of new comics added each week) that no one troper is likely to own or read all of it - especially as there are big gaps in what's available digitally or reprinted (and licensed characters and legal issues mean that certain stories may never be reprinted at all).
And that can make troping their shared universe pretty tricky - even Marvel's own creative teams have been known to lose track now and then.
We've got tropers busily revising existing pages, while others add new information weekly as new comics are published. This thread's here to help with any queries that generates, to focus work on particular pages that could use improvement, and to help ensure that we tackle works page names and other aspects in a consistent way that makes sense to readers navigating between different Marvel-related pages (as well as following best practice for the wiki as a whole).
Feel free to post here to draw attention to relevant posts or threads elsewhere - e.g. if examples, images, captions and quotes, or spoiler policies for these pages are under discussion.
There are existing threads and standard guidelines for those topics (e.g. Image Pickin' has its own, very structured, process), and this shouldn't duplicate any of that - but tropers reading this thread may wish to vote or comment once they know about those discussions.
- If there's a consistent creative team, they should be named in the introduction. Ideally, include inkers and colorists as well as other artists.
- The page image doesn't always have to be the first issue cover.
- Pages for arcs, runs and events should include the relevant titles and issue numbers.
- Pages should include start and end dates in the introduction
- Links regarding particular characters (e.g. Wolverine) should go to their Characters page, not their ComicBook page.
- As a rule, characters in Marvel Universe continuity only get one Character page profile, regardless of how many different series they appear in. However:
- Alternate Universe and Bad Future variants may justify their own profile, and sometimes the same can be said for Split Personality scenarios.
- It may be appropriate to add a character to a relevant Character page with an intro and a link to their full profile on another page (e.g. many villains have been major characters in several different series)
- Creation of any new Character Specific Pages, and proposals to merge any of them back into other pages, should go via the Character Specific Pages cleanup thread
, but it's worth posting here as well.
- If you're splitting, merging or moving characters between different Character pages, it's worth checking with the Character Page Cleanup thread as well as posting here.
Relevant sandboxes
- Marvel Comics Sandboxes - list of relevant sandbox pages for launches, splits and mergers.
- Marvel Characters Pages: Spoiler Limits - Progress on the Character page spoiler tagging cleanup
- ComicBook Duplicate Images - Images used on multiple works pages
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2023 at 12:48:21 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Marvel's website treats it as part of the title. For example: https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/109543/edge_of_venomverse_unlimited_infinity_comic_2023_4
he/him
It's not treated that way in covers (or reprints), though. I suspect we're fine to use either version, but we should probably be consistent. And it might be worth an ATT or policy question to the mods.
(And whichever we don't use should arguably be a redirect)
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 13th 2023 at 9:04:02 AM
The Formatter
What annoys me the most about the webcomics is that there isn’t a section for them under the latest edits section.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
In terms of tracking site changes on TVT? Sounds like a wishlist item.
he/him
Tropes for Days Of Future Past Doomsday are currently being added to a new section on the original Days of Future Past page.
I've added a discussion post suggesting a hard split to give the new series its own page -will do that in a week or so if there are no concerns.
Does it sounds like a plan to folk here as well?
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 14th 2023 at 6:53:40 PM
The Formatter
It’s a new comic about 30 years removed from the original. I say yes to the hard split.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
He/Him
From Marvel Comics Editors In Chief
- Joe Quesada (2000-2011): The second longest-serving EIC of Marvel Comics after Stan Lee himself. Like all editors, he has his detractors and admirers, but he's credited for launching a number of great talents and especially for the successful Ultimate Marvel line. In his time, The Avengers moved front and center to the Marvel line over both the X-Men and the Fantastic Four. He stated once that his major goal was to put three genies back in the bottle, and before he ended his tenure, he did what he set out to do, though many of course question both the execution and the results:
- Reduce the number of mutants so that they feel like a persecuted vulnerable minority and ragtag group of outsiders (which he did with House of M)note
Specifically about the note in the sub-bullet, which feels... erroneous There's no reason to correlate House of M with the Fox rights, when despite all the death and destruction of the era... it still had maaaaaaaaany X-titles and was absolutely heavily promoted. This was the 2000s, stuff like that sold like hotcakes, so it's not like that was purposefully made to break the brand. Yes, it admits it's a coincidence, but... why mention it then?
And for the second part, the Inhumans push came after Quesada left, so it shouldn't be under him. And I'm not sure about the directive having been pre-House of M, considering, again, Marvel pushed the X-Men hard still, and the Inhumans got only their usual amount of stuff up until around 2014.
So... permission to cut the note?
The Formatter
Yeah I say get rid of it.
So regarding the Venom Hosts, I had the idea to create a page for Venom like there currently is for Carnage. I've made a sandbox here for everyone to take a look. I had to do some moving around for a couple of characters to make it not as long, so I moved Deadpool into the main hosts page as was discussed, and split his tropes between the newly created Deadpool: Back in Black and a Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars folder on Deadpool. I also moved the Dusk alternate Venom over to the Spider-Girl page and The T-Rex Venom over to the The Wastelands page to shorten the alternate Venoms page. I did create a Venom: The End page but I wasn't sure whether or not to move the tropes over or not.
The sandbox seems long to me but it was something I wanted to try out.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
I dunno. It's a fine idea, but cramming everything onto one page does look overly long and I don't like that the "Hosts on other pages" folder gets rid of all the symbiote variants of the characters... though I'm biased since I was the one who put most of those folders together only to then have their contents moved so... [shrug]
And IIRC the reason Carnage's page wasn't split into Carnage (Symbiote), Main Hosts, Other Hosts, and Alternate Versions of Carnage like Venom's was was simply because at the time there wasn't — and still isn't — as many secondary hosts and variants of Cletus and the Carnage symbiote as there are for Venom. Time — and retcons — are changing that. The variants from Carnage: Black, White & Blood have yet to be given folders, and Marvel's current insistence post-Extreme Carnage that the symbiote currently under "Carnage IV / Dark Carnage" is actually the original Carnage symbiote despite Donny Cates going out of his way to repeatedly state that it isn't during his run raises the question of whether or not they should be merged.
Edited by Arawn999 on Jul 17th 2023 at 9:03:57 AM
He/Him
and Ok, I've cut it.
Edited by JDMA12 on Jul 17th 2023 at 4:40:02 PM
he/him
Captain America J Michael Straczynski Is now a 2-trope stub, as all we've got to trope is preview cover art (we can't take Word of God).
It may be cut if that doesn't change in the next few days. If so, should we recreate it with JMS's name attached, or with the year?
Conscious that we've broadly moved away from using creator names, especially as some (Ram V, Donny Cates) have recently left mid-run.
The Formatter
I'd say year. If that's the format we're aiming for now then we should try and keep it as uniform as we can.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
I'm not against creator name when year's not practical for disambig, for older works. But if the work's unfinished it feels like tempting fate - Marvel will often reboot when a writer/artist run ends, but we have plenty of exceptions.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 18th 2023 at 10:27:37 AM
he/him
X-Men: Arakko is back on Image Pickin' - the image for Genesis was unilaterally changed.
Thread is here, please comment and/or vote if you have a view.
he/him
Captain America J Michael Straczynski has now been cutlisted as a stub - a week since it dropped to 2 examples, and a couple of days since the discussion page warning.
The Trivia page will go the same way if the ComicBook cut is approved.
Flash Thompson's image is up for discussion.
he/him
Voted. Thanks!
What, if anything, do we want to do about Hellfire Gala? It started as a page for the 2021 Bat Family Crossover, but as the Gala's had annual one-shots since then, it's absorbed them as well, while the intro still claims it's about the crossover.
I'd be tempted to take the later one offs and put them back into the relevant Krakoa arc pages - e.g. Destiny of X. As they're at such different points in the mega-arc, and each one is some sort of turning point for the arc that contains it, putting it all in one place feels odd.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 20th 2023 at 11:44:30 AM
he/him
I've put an ATT Query up about the Infinity Comics title question - let's see what the consensus is.
He/Him
Agreed with making the page only for the crossover, and moving the one-shots to the arc pages.
The Formatter
I think split off the 2022 and 2023 sections into their own pages. It might make things easier.
he/him
On the Infinity Comics topic - nobody else has really weighed in on the ATT, so I'd suggest we're ok to keep the existing work names for the moment.
We can always add the suffix and/or start using redirects if need be. But unless anyone strongly wants to move them and update all the wicks, it feels like extra work right now.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:25:34 PM
The Formatter
So there is now a Daimon Helstrom comic page made, Hellstorm: Prince of Lies. Should his character folder in Marvel Comics: Demons be remade as a work hub like Nick Fury or Shang Chi? And if so, what should the page be titled? Hellstorm, Son Of Satan, The Son Of Satan, Hellstrom?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
I think that's a good idea. We have multiple solo runs, and I'm about to do pages for some of the others, so we can justify a hub page.
As I understand it:
- The Son of Satan (Marvel Spotlight) (1973)
- Son of Satan (1975)
- Hellstorm: Prince of Lies
- Hellstorm: Son of Satan (2006, MAX)
Given that they've used two very different titles, I'd be tempted to call the umbrella page Hellstorm: Son of Satan, as it handily combines both while avoiding 'fan' names for the page, then disambiguating the MAX series by adding year or imprint?
As the 1975 series is officially Son of Satan, but The Son of Satan on covers, I'd go with the first version for the page but probably create the cover 'The' version (with year) as a redirect.
Does that sound reasonable?
If so, we can also move some of the characters over from the demon page to a series-specific Characters page.
he/him
Proposed image upgrade for ComicBook.Sabretooth 1993.
Please comment on that thread if you've got a view.
It's the same for every single Infinity Comics title, and it's been dropped whenever they've republished the same work in a different format (e.g. Hulking & Wiccan, It's Jeff and Alligator Loki).