You're confusing namespaces and media categories. Do you mean the Literature/ namespace or the Literature media category?

Media categories. Updated the post to clarify.

"Light Novels can go ... if the Anime or Manga is the primary work"

Define "primary work" for me, because this part sounds like it contradicts itself. I've added the second option though.

Yeah, "primary work" in itself is dubious. Very rarely do pure anime and manga get LN adaptations.

Very rarely isn't never, but in that case it's already understood that the example should go in Anime & Manga unless it was adaptation-exclusive to the LN.

If it means Light Novel adaptations of Anime and Manga works, I understand now, but it was phrased oddly.

Also now that I recall, Light Novel adaptations of Web Serial Novel also would need considerations and are more common.

Yeah, Maybe "Source Work" or "First" - Not sure how to better phrase that.

LN adaptations of web serial novels would just go in the literature folder as serial web novels go under that folder.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 10th 2022 at 11:56:54 AM

I'll revise the list completely because there are multiple mediums now and making combinations of each adaptation order would be very redundant.

^ That looks good to me.

I am think about announcing the deprecation of Light Novel/ and Wiki/ via bulletin. I was going to wait until the second crowner but I guess it's fine to do it now.

My position best illustrated with an example from a page I've heavily edited, Reign of the Seven Spellblades (which I will be migrating after I get home from work ETA: it's done).

• Adaptational Late Appearance: Chloe Halford's Plot-Triggering Death scene takes up the entire prologue chapter of the original novel. The manga adaptation by Sakae Esuno changes this to a two-page spread at the end of chapter (12 IIRC?). Exclusive to the adaptation, therefore belongs in Anime & Manga on trope pages.
• Smells Sexy: Ophelia Salvadori, as a consequence of her succubus ancestry, produces pheromones that uncontrollably arouse characters with a male gender expression. Importantly, one major character is AMAB agender and another is a Sex Shifter. Common to all versions, therefore belongs in Literature on trope pages.
• Overly Long Hug: Oliver's congratulatory hug with Nanao after her first senior league broomsports match at the end of volume 4, which goes on for over five minutes before either can bring themselves to end it. Currently exclusive to the LN because the manga is only just getting into LN volume 2 territory, therefore belongs in Literature on trope pages.

And yes, Web Serial Novels are already treated as Literature for namespace purposes, so there's no conflict there: by merging the Light Novel namespace into the Literature namespace we're actually resolving a conflict with several works.

Edited by StarSword on Aug 13th 2022 at 3:07:44 PM

The tough part is being sure which part is from the adaptation. The usual progression is web novel -> published light novel -> anime/manga, but for works not officially translated into English, the contents of the light novel stage may be a mystery to people comparing the web novel and manga.

Typically light novel adaptations of web novels deviate greatly, which can be a problem when examples don't specify which version they apply to. Though it's something that better specified in example context and not where it's placed.

Yeah, then we get the weird cases like Muv Luv Alternative Total Eclipse, which is an original Light Novel Spin-Off of a Visual Novel franchise that also has its own anime and VN adaptations, and the anime is the only medium currently available with an official English translation. (The English localization of the VN was announced but seems to have become vaporware.)

Erm, what about My Next Life As A Villainess All Routes Lead To Doom? It started as a web novel of two volumes, was adaptated into a long-running light novel series, got adapated into a two-season anime with a theatrical movie in 2023, a long-running manga, a spin-off about what would happen if Katarina didn't regain her memories when she bumped her head as a child, doing so when she was bullying Maria and a pirate themed visual novel. Should it be moved to web novel?

Edited by FirstAidRules on Aug 10th 2022 at 6:11:09 AM

Meanwhile, do I take correctly it's fine for now to clone pages in Light Novel/ to Literature/ and change wicks, or the moving part is better to do with the Mover tool?

I think it's fine to move the pages but I think wick cleaning can wait until the folder category crowner is done so that people won't have to move wicks twice.

As for manual vs mod move, the latter is mostly to ensure that the history stays on one page. I'd still encourage to their own moves so me and other mods don't have to move 800+ articles alone.

I can start going down the Light Novel page today tomorrow.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 10th 2022 at 9:16:31 AM

@First Aid Rules: IMHO that would be Literature namespace and example sorting by default, unless an example is confirmably from a particular adaptation.

Also another issue I just remembered: currently some of the indexes that we have LNs listed on have a line that says words to the effect of "LNs with A/M adaptations go on the Anime/Manga version of this index and not the Literature version".

re: My Next Life As A Villainess All Routes Lead To Doom Web Serial Novel are still Literature folder, but the next crowner is to address the moment with adaptations.

Unless you suggest it should be in Web Novels folder, which I haven't given much thought because of Media Categories FAQ.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 10th 2022 at 4:27:10 PM

We should really make a sandbox for all of these page moves. There are a few unusual cases where the page shouldn't be moved to Literature/WhateverTheOldPageLocationWas, whether for localization or otherwise, and it would make sense to have those cases listed before people start moving pages.

What cases are those?

I guess if a sandbox is needed I can copy-paste the list on light novels to one.

I can think of three at the moment. Saga Of Tanya The Evil is missing a leading "The", Overlord 2012 began in 2010, and Danganronpa Trigger Happy Havoc IF should be in VisualNovel/.

(Edit: I've retracted the Danganronpa one.)

Edited by bwburke94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 3:23:39 PM

That's debatable. It's lacking the "visual" part of Visual Novel apart from some background images behind the text, describes itself as a novel/light novel/ebook (see 0:21 and 2:47 in the video), and looking it up online, it is referred to as a novel/light novel, including on the official site (although technically I don't think it's long enough to be a novel in terms of word count).

Edited by Twiddler on Aug 11th 2022 at 1:28:23 AM

Well, I gotta say Light Novels are literature.

Natsuki fromDoki Doki Literature Club! would technically be excited about it.