CelestaPlebs
Considering how the consensus seems to say the description's too long, here's my second draft.
%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=m7qwrvkm0ki8dvax5viu5ktm
. Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread.
Huh? Wait! What? Did that just happen? I mean… that is how it would happen in Real Life, but…
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome happens when a work subverts narrative expectations by deriving an outcome from real-life principles, temporarily removing its otherwise fictional logic. We are vulnerable to this because works of fiction generally have a narrative pattern, and we can often anticipate the outcome of action based on the story.
Distinguishing between this trope and casual plot twists can be tricky. A plot twist is always surprising, will mostly make sense, and are all arguably realistic. Anyone could declare almost any event a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, and it'd be hard to prove it isn't. To minimize the stress on editors, before adding any example, make sure it's Surprising, Realistic, and an Outcome:
- Surprising: A moment needs to be objectively surprising to qualify, meaning a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome requires an Expected Unrealistic Outcome for its genre. As paradoxical as it sounds, we expect unexpected events in fiction, as stories would be boring if everything always happened according to plan. Unlike a regular Plot Twist, a surprisingly realistic moment deliberately guides audience expectations in one direction, only to suddenly avert the Artistic License or Rule of X necessary for that outcome. In doing so, it highlights how unrealistic it was for the viewer to have those expectations in the first place.
- Realistic: The outcome must be possible in Real Life. An example with even the slightest bit of Applied Phlebotinum isn't this trope. Real people can't actualize Functional Magic, Fantasy, Science Fiction, and the like, so it's impossible to tell how things would really turn out when such elements are in play. Powers possessing a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers should go under those respective tropes. Also, character reactions cannot qualify under this trope, as people's emotional and psychological responses to a situation vary wildly. We can't say any response is necessarily more realistic in fictional scenarios, and not even the character's author can know such things.
- Outcome: This convention-defying realistic consequence has to actually happen. Simply pointing out that something wouldn't work the way it does in fiction doesn't count.
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome differs from Deconstruction in several ways:
- Expectations: Once we've identified a work as a deconstruction, we should be able to anticipate how it handles certain tropes, which differs from how this trope must be surprising. While a deconstruction will sometimes lead with a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, the consequences down the line won't surprise us anymore.
- Timing: Because a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome is a subversion and is often jarring, it's supposed to be a momentary trope. Deconstructions typically weave themselves into the fabric of a story, creating something lasting for at least a significant portion of the work.
- Realism: A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome subverts expectations by refusing to have things work how one would expect from fiction, meaning it excludes all Applied Phlebotinum. A deconstruction discusses or plays with assumptions underpinning a trope or theme. Deconstructions don't necessarily involve objective realism, as they can include examining a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers. While we can deconstruct the workings of Applied Phlebotinum, we can't make it realistic.
If the characters are surprised right along with us, the situation overlaps with Wrong Genre Savvy. Conversely, a Genre Savvy character might have been counting on the results that shocked us so much!
When a Video Game does this to you, it's Unexpectedly Realistic Gameplay. If Magic A Is Magic A or Applied Phlebotinum kicks back in and subverts the realistic outcome, we have Fantasy All Along. When a work applies this trope to something that happened in a story written by someone else, it's a Deconstructive Parody or Deconstruction Fic.
See also Anti-Climax, which might derive from this trope but doesn't require realism, and Fridge Logic, which is when the realistic outcome exists only in the audience's head. Extraordinary World, Ordinary Problems involves recognizing how mundane problems still exist in fiction, which may or may not count here depending on the above criteria. An Unbuilt Trope might sometimes seem like this, except the Expected Unrealistic Outcome didn't exist at the time.
To avoid redundancy since this trope is entirely about outcomes based on Real Life, No Real Life Examples, Please!note
As this trope frequently occurs at the climax, spoilers are likely unmarked. You Have Been Warned.
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:25:15 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
I think that works.
Peeks from Under Rocks
Getting better, I think. I'd still trim it down further.
Intro to the SRO bullets could be cut to:
I'd also cut the trope-relationships stuff down:
See also Anti-Climax, which might run in parallel, but doesn't require realism; and Fridge Logic, when the realistic outcome exists only in the audience's head. Extraordinary World, Ordinary Problems is about mundane problems still existing in fictional worlds. An Unbuilt Trope might sometimes seem like this, except the Expected Unrealistic Outcome didn't exist at the time.
I'd also like to see the "S" and "R" bullet points shortened a bit. Feedback appreciated.
Did we ever reach a conclusion whether this is, in fact, a variety of Bait-and-Switch?
Upthread, ~Tonwen mentioned wanting to crowner some aspects. What aspects here have differing opinions that might need sorting out?
CelestaPlebs
Okay, third draft. Besides the advice, I also decided to remove the spoiler notice because I don't believe the new version of SRO we're working on is as Spoilered Rotten as before. Also, I seriously don't believe I could write the S and R bullet points any shorter and still hit the same way.
%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=m7qwrvkm0ki8dvax5viu5ktm
. Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread.
Huh? Wait! What? Did that just happen? I mean… that is how it would happen in Real Life, but…
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome happens when a work subverts narrative conventions by deriving an outcome from realistic principles, temporarily removing its otherwise fictional logic. We can often anticipate results based on the story's narrative pattern; this trope subverts those expectations by momentarily employing more realism than its norm.
This trope isn't merely a plot twist. Due to its nature, anyone could declare almost any event a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome. To minimize stress on editors, make sure your example is Surprising, Realistic, and an Outcome:
- Surprising: A moment needs to be objectively surprising to qualify, meaning a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome requires an Expected Unrealistic Outcome for its genre. We expect unexpected events in fiction, as stories would be boring if everything always happened according to plan. Unlike a regular Plot Twist, a surprisingly realistic moment deliberately guides audience expectations in one direction, only to suddenly avert the Artistic License or Rule of X necessary for that outcome. In doing so, it highlights how unrealistic it was for the viewer to expect that in the first place.
- Realistic: The outcome must be possible in Real Life. An example with even the slightest bit of Applied Phlebotinum isn't this trope. Real people can't actualize Functional Magic, Fantasy, Science Fiction, and the like, so it's impossible to tell how things would really turn out when such elements are in play. Powers possessing a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers should go under those respective tropes. Also, character reactions cannot qualify under this trope, as people's emotional and psychological responses to a situation vary wildly. We can't say any response is necessarily more realistic in fictional scenarios, and not even the character's author can know such things.
- Outcome: This convention-defying realistic consequence has to actually happen. Simply pointing out that something wouldn't work the way it does in fiction doesn't count.
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome differs from Deconstruction in several ways:
- Expectations: Once we've identified a work as a deconstruction, we should be able to anticipate how it handles certain tropes, which differs from how this trope must be surprising. While a deconstruction will sometimes lead with a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, the consequences down the line won't surprise us anymore.
- Timing: Because a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome is a subversion and is often jarring, it's supposed to be a momentary trope. Deconstructions typically weave themselves into the fabric of a story, creating something lasting for at least a significant portion of the work.
- Realism: A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome subverts expectations by refusing to have things work how one would expect from fiction, meaning it excludes all Applied Phlebotinum. A deconstruction discusses or plays with assumptions underpinning a trope or theme. Deconstructions don't necessarily involve objective realism, as they can include examining a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers. While we can deconstruct the workings of Applied Phlebotinum, we can't make it realistic.
If the characters are surprised right along with us, the situation overlaps with Wrong Genre Savvy. Conversely, a Genre Savvy character might have been counting on the results that shocked us so much!
If the characters are surprised right along with us, the situation overlaps with Wrong Genre Savvy. When a Video Game does this to you, it's Unexpectedly Realistic Gameplay. See also Anti-Climax, which might run in parallel but doesn't require realism; and Fridge Logic, when the realistic outcome exists only in the audience's head. Extraordinary World, Ordinary Problems is about mundane problems still happening in fictional worlds. An Unbuilt Trope might sometimes seem like this, except the Expected Unrealistic Outcome didn't exist at the time, and it veers more towards Deconstruction.
To avoid redundancy since this trope is entirely about outcomes based on Real Life, No Real Life Examples, Please!note
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Apr 28th 2022 at 4:39:18 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
I feel like this trope will need something adjacent to an EP treatment. However, unlike CM and MB (which are character tropes), this trope is about things happening, which would be inconvenient for voting and EP'ing
Edited by magnumtropus on Apr 28th 2022 at 1:21:43 PM
HoMM Fan
I'm not sure a crowner will be needed now that Idiosyncratic has a draft going, although we could crowner the draft itself to see what people think.
It answers pretty much all of the contested elements of the trope and also states what makes it differ from a plain old Deconstruction.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
I don't think we can call a crowner in Trope Talk. We'd need TRS for that. At this point, now that we've got a working new definition, perhaps we should call a mod and ask them how to proceed from here.
CelestaPlebs
Agreed. Hollering for a review.
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
If the characters are surprised right along with us, the situation overlaps with Wrong Genre Savvy.
You've got some repetition going on here. However, I think the Genre Savvy and Wrong Genre Savvy bits needs to be revisited. A trope is not the same thing as a genre, but a genre can be a guide as to what tropes may be in play. And just because the character may share the surprise of the audience, it doesn't automatically follow that it's because Wrong Genre Savvy is in play. I think the current wording encourages the kind of misuse of the savvy tropes that have been cleaned-up in the past.
When a character is genre savvy, they think Genre X is in play, and therefore the tropes associated with that genre are in play. If a character is surprised along with the audience, it depends on the context as to whether a genre savvy trope is in play. If the character keeps applying vampire story tropes to the vampires they're fighting in the work, only for it to turn out that sunlight doesn't fry them to a crisp because this is actually a sci-fi story instead of a fantasy story and the "vampires" are some kind of weird MCU-style experiment that means their reactions to the sun are just the norm for humans, they'd be Wrong Genre Savvy, but the question is... is there an SRO going on? The answer would be no because, while the outcome is surprising and "scientific" rather than "magical", that just means the SRO needs to apply to sci-fi tropes (and might not be subverting any of them), not gothic urban fantasy... obviously, my example wouldn't count as SRO because vampires aren't real, but hopefully you catch my drift.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 28th 2022 at 4:33:09 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
(she/her)
I think it's better for the draft to be hashed out via discussion than be crownered. And yes, the only place definitions get changed is TRS. It doesn't look like you are changing the definition though. Looks like the rewrite is just to clarify the description.
Macron's notes
Professional Wick Checker
I'm fine with @Idiosyncratic's proposed draft.
Edited by selkies on Apr 28th 2022 at 3:48:17 PM
CelestaPlebs
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Point made. Draft four is out now, with those portions trimmed and some minor wording tweaks. I've also added a section discouraging overuse. I believe this draft is at least close to my potential final version and could potentially be swapped onto the page soon.
%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=m7qwrvkm0ki8dvax5viu5ktm
. Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread.
Huh? Wait! What? Did that just happen? I mean… that is how it would happen in Real Life, but…
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome happens when a work subverts narrative conventions by deriving an outcome from realistic principles, temporarily removing otherwise fictional logic. We can often anticipate results based on the story's narrative pattern; this trope subverts those expectations by momentarily employing more realism than its norm.
This trope isn't merely a Plot Twist. Due to its nature, anyone could declare almost any event a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome. To minimize stress on editors, make sure your example is Surprising, Realistic, and an Outcome:
- Surprising: A moment needs to be objectively surprising to qualify, meaning a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome requires an Expected Unrealistic Outcome for its genre. We expect unexpected events in fiction, as stories would be boring if everything always happened according to plan. Unlike a regular Plot Twist, a surprisingly realistic moment deliberately guides audience expectations in one direction, only to suddenly avert the Artistic License or Rule of X necessary for that outcome. In doing so, it highlights how unrealistic it was for the viewer to expect that in the first place.
- Realistic: The outcome must be possible in Real Life. An example with even the slightest bit of Applied Phlebotinum isn't this trope. Real people can't actualize Functional Magic, Fantasy, Science Fiction, and the like, so it's impossible to tell how things would really turn out when such elements exist. Powers possessing a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers should go under those respective tropes. Also, character reactions cannot qualify under this trope, as people's emotional and psychological responses to a situation vary wildly. We can't say any response is necessarily more realistic in fictional scenarios, and not even the character's author can know such things.
- Outcome: This convention-defying realistic consequence has to actually happen. Simply pointing out how something wouldn't work the way it does in fiction doesn't count. Also, to curb potential misuse, check if listing your example as a subversion of a specific trope would work better. If it does, there's no point in putting it here.
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome differs from Deconstruction in several ways:
- Expectations: Once we've identified a work as a deconstruction, we should be able to anticipate how it handles certain tropes, differing from how this trope must be surprising. While a deconstruction will sometimes lead with a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, the consequences down the line won't surprise us anymore.
- Timing: Because a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome is a subversion and is often jarring, it's supposed to be a momentary trope. Deconstructions typically weave themselves into the fabric of a story, creating something lasting for at least a significant portion of the work.
- Realism: A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome subverts expectations by refusing to have things work how one would expect from fiction, meaning it excludes all Applied Phlebotinum. A deconstruction discusses or plays with assumptions underpinning a trope or theme. Deconstructions don't necessarily involve objective realism, as they can include examining a Logical Weakness or a subversion of Required Secondary Powers. While we can deconstruct the workings of Applied Phlebotinum, we can't make it realistic.
Video game examples overlap with Unexpectedly Realistic Gameplay. Anti-Climax might run in parallel but doesn't require realism. Fridge Logic is when the realistic outcome exists only in the audience's mind. Extraordinary World, Ordinary Problems is about mundane problems still existing in fictional settings. An Unbuilt Trope deals with situations where the Expected Unrealistic Outcome didn't exist at the time and veers more towards Deconstruction.
To avoid redundancy since this trope is entirely about outcomes based on Real Life, No Real Life Examples, Please!note
Edited by Idiosyncratic on Apr 29th 2022 at 12:12:41 PM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Peeks from Under Rocks
Looking mostly good. I'm still not a fan of Sinkholing Pothole Magnet in the intro, and the whole point of this discussion is to firm things up so that you really can't say that almost anything qualifies as a SRO.
When it looks like we've got a viable draft, should we be tagging it publicly anywhere specific, just to get some more eyes on it?
Edited by underCoverSailsman on Apr 29th 2022 at 7:06:36 AM
CelestaPlebs
Very well, here's my fifth draft with the sinkhole removed. I formatted it as monospace this time so anyone can copy the syntax, and for visibility, we can get a mod to swap my version onto Surprisingly Realistic Outcome if enough people consider it ready.
%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=m7qwrvkm0ki8dvax5viu5ktm. Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread.
[[quoteright:340:[[Webcomic/TheAdventuresOfDrMcNinja https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/reality01_264.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:340:Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.\\
Try to [[DodgeTheBullet dodge bullets]], and you'll end up like me.]]
Huh? ''Wait!'' '''What?''' Did that just happen? I mean… that ''is'' how it would happen in Real Life, but…
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome happens when a work subverts narrative conventions by deriving an outcome from realistic principles, temporarily removing otherwise fictional logic. We can often anticipate results based on the story's narrative pattern; this trope subverts those expectations by momentarily employing more realism than its norm.
This trope ''isn't merely a PlotTwist''. To minimize stress on editors, ''make sure'' your example is ''Surprising'', ''Realistic'', and an ''Outcome'':
* '''Surprising''': A moment needs to be ''objectively'' surprising to qualify, meaning a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome requires an Expected Unrealistic Outcome for its genre. [[ImmediateSelfContradiction We expect unexpected events in fiction]], as stories would be boring if everything ''always'' happened according to plan. Unlike a regular PlotTwist, a ''surprisingly'' realistic moment [[BaitAndSwitch deliberately guides audience expectations in one direction]], only to suddenly avert the ArtisticLicense or [[RuleOfIndex Rule of X]] necessary for that outcome. In doing so, it highlights how unrealistic it was for the viewer to expect that in the first place.
* '''Realistic''': The outcome ''must'' be possible in RealLife. An example with even the slightest bit of AppliedPhlebotinum isn't this trope. Real people can't actualize FunctionalMagic, {{Fantasy}}, ScienceFiction, and the like, so it's impossible to tell how things would ''really'' turn out when such elements exist. Powers possessing a LogicalWeakness or a subversion of RequiredSecondaryPowers should go under those respective tropes. Also, character reactions cannot qualify under this trope, as people's emotional and psychological responses to a situation vary ''wildly''. We can't say any response is necessarily more realistic in fictional scenarios, and not even the [[OutOfCharacterMoment character's author can know such things]].
* '''Outcome''': This convention-defying realistic consequence has to ''actually happen''. [[DiscussedTrope Simply pointing out how something wouldn't work the way it does in fiction]] doesn't count. Also, to curb potential misuse, check if listing your example as a subversion of a specific trope would work better. If it does, there's no point in putting it here.
A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome differs from {{Deconstruction}} in several ways:
* '''Expectations''': Once we've identified a work as a deconstruction, we should be able to anticipate how it handles certain tropes, differing from how this trope ''must'' be surprising. While a deconstruction will sometimes ''lead'' with a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, the consequences down the line won't surprise us anymore.
* '''Timing''': Because a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome is a ''subversion'' and is often jarring, it's supposed to be a momentary trope. Deconstructions typically weave themselves into the fabric of a story, creating something lasting for at least a significant portion of the work.
* '''Realism''': A Surprisingly Realistic Outcome subverts expectations by refusing to have things work how one would expect from fiction, meaning it excludes ''all'' AppliedPhlebotinum. A deconstruction discusses or plays with assumptions underpinning a trope or theme. Deconstructions don't necessarily involve objective realism, as they can include examining a LogicalWeakness or a subversion of RequiredSecondaryPowers. While we can ''deconstruct'' the workings of AppliedPhlebotinum, we can't make it ''realistic''.
Video game examples overlap with UnexpectedlyRealisticGameplay. AntiClimax ''might'' run in parallel but doesn't require realism. FridgeLogic is when the realistic outcome exists only in the audience's mind. ExtraordinaryWorldOrdinaryProblems is about mundane problems still existing in fictional settings. An UnbuiltTrope deals with situations where the Expected Unrealistic Outcome didn't exist at the time and veers more towards {{Deconstruction}}.
To avoid redundancy since this trope is entirely about outcomes based on RealLife, '''Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease'''[[note]]While media might have trained you to [[RealityIsUnrealistic expect something different]], we don't want to deal with that. For a long, detailed list of tropes causing disaster when applied to real life, see JustForFun/TelevisionIsTryingToKillUs.[[/note]]
----
[[index]]
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/{{Advertising}}
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/AnimeAndManga
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/ComicBooks
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/FanWorks
* [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/AnimatedFilms Films — Animation]]
* [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/LiveActionFilms Films — Live-Action]]
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/{{Literature}}
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/LiveActionTV
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/{{Music}}
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/ProWrestling
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/TabletopGames
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/VideoGames
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/VisualNovels
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/WebAnimation
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/{{Webcomics}}
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/WebOriginal
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/WebVideos
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/WesternAnimation
* SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome/OtherMedia
[[/index]]
----
Edited by Idiosyncratic on May 4th 2022 at 5:18:52 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
HoMM Fan
I'm a fan of the new draft, I don't see anything that would need major changes from it.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
Yeah, looks good to me.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Peeks from Under Rocks
I'd be good with that draft as well.
Couple of questions (That might need mod feedback)
- Should we/do we need to try to advertise this draft in other locations (the cleanup thread, etc.) or is consensus from those that participated in this thread sufficient?
- Assuming that this draft, or something similar, gets swapped in, what should we do about cleanup? Between the various troubles that the existing cleanup had and Word of Dante issues, it's pretty clear that essentially all existing examples need to be gone through.
- Try to restart in the existing cleanup thread? New thread for a fresh start?
- Would we be able to declare that examples that do not show both "Surprising" and "Realistic" as cut-able ZCE?
- Is there a way to throttle the rate of examples being brought in for group review, just so that it's possible to keep up with it all?
- Given the size of the examples to go through, perhaps use a sandbox for people to track what they've reviewed, instead of the more common "Post in the Thread"
CelestaPlebs
To be safe about exposure, I've cross-posted the essentially finalized draft to the cleanup thread and told anyone with opinions on it to come here. I suggest locking this thread once we gain enough consensus to get a mod to swap my draft onto the page and return to the cleanup thread afterward.
IMO, once we finish revamping the definition and return to cleaning, I believe we should implement a flow chart telling tropers how to handle SRO examples they encounter that looks something like this:
- Does the example involve Applied Phlebotinum (Functional Magic, Science Fiction, Artistic Licence) and/or a character reaction? If so, it instantly violates the definition's second bullet point's realism requirements and you should delete it without question.
- Is the example a Discussed Trope or an instance of Conversational Troping? If so, it violates the definition's third bullet point's emphasis on only counting outcomes and you should delete it without question.
- Would the example qualify for another trope or a subversion of one? If so, move it from SRO to there on the spot, as there's no point in listing something here if something else already covers it.
- If the example passed all three previous tests, it satisfies both the second and third bullet points and you don't need to immediately make a move on it. If you feel like it meets the first bullet point's requirements for being surprising, you can leave it. However, if you believe it doesn't meet the first bullet point or aren't sure, talk it over in the cleanup thread before deciding.
Edited by Idiosyncratic on May 4th 2022 at 4:29:32 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
Peeks from Under Rocks
For clarity, when I suggested using a sandbox to track cleanup, I was referring to keeping the list of "Cleaned Literature A-C" reports in a sandbox, rather than posting them in the thread as is often done with smaller cleanups. Given this page's history, I expect a good bit of discussion, even with the tighter description, and it would be easy to loose track of where things are at.
(she/her)
Since people seem to like the final revised draft, I can swap it in if there aren't objections. I guess from there clean up can resume.
Macron's notes
CelestaPlebs
&Very well, I think we can repurpose Sandbox.Surprisingly Realistic Outcome from where we write drafts to where we list all the works we've cleaned. If Macron decides it's okay to swap my final draft onto SRO's page now, please also swap this description into the sandbox.
This sandbox tracks the pages tropers have cleared SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome misuse from using the ongoing cleanup regarding the trope. We don't want to clog up the cleanup thread since SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome is an OverdosedTrope. Before posting about it there, check if the example you're analyzing qualifies for summary deletion from the three criteria below by keeping this trope's rigorous on-page definition in mind. * Does the example involve AppliedPhlebotinum (FunctionalMagic, ScienceFiction, ArtisticLicence) or a character reaction? If so, it instantly violates the definition's second bullet point's realism requirements, and you should delete it without question. * Is the example a DiscussedTrope or an instance of ConversationalTroping? If so, it violates the definition's third bullet point's emphasis on only counting outcomes, and you should delete it without question. * Would the example qualify for another trope or subversion of one? If so, move it from SRO to there on the spot, as there's no point in listing something here if something else already covers it. * If the example passed all three previous tests, it satisfies the second and third bullet points, so you don't need to change it immediately. If you feel like it meets the first bullet point's requirements for being surprising, you can leave it. However, if you believe it doesn't meet the first bullet point or aren't sure, talk it over in the cleanup thread before deciding. Once you've reviewed a page and confirmed it's clear of misuse, list it below to let other tropers know it's finished. [[WMG:'''Pages tropers have cleared of SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome misuse:''']] ----
Edited by Idiosyncratic on May 4th 2022 at 5:34:52 AM
Add a title. Stay safe; stay well. Live beyond… memento vivere! Should intermittent vengeance arm again his red right hand to plague us?
(she/her)
Both swaps are done.
Macron's notes
In regards to listing pages on the sandbox page, are we also including pages that are inevitably going to cut outright, like the SRO subpages for certain works?
Edited by Super_Weegee on May 8th 2022 at 4:28:27 AM
I agree with the points made, but I do also agree it's long. Most people won't read all of that and we'll be stuck with the same problems.
I'd shorten the character reactions bullet point to just this:
Character reactions cannot qualify under this trope, as people's emotional and psychological responses to a situation can greatly vary, with no response being necessarily more realistic.
I think the bullet points under the Surprising also add unnecessarily to the length. I think we could cut to only include the third bullet point in the description, but I'd like to hear other opinions on that.