Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

Granted I will said that Vegeta siding with Boo is probably the most fucking bullshit I have ever seen, specially because this is the second time is pride allow the villian to get what he wanted it.

That is why I cant get behind is heroic sacrifice back them against Book because some episode earlier he blow half the stadium to face Goku.

It felt like that was kind of the point and why it was so shocking when it was first revealed. Edit: The Bulma romance thing.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:49:10 AM

Maybe but after him falling around with Cell and allow hm to reach perfect form it was one think, him doing AGAIN was waaaaaay to much for me.

So like, was randomly watching tv shows today and I think it was reruns of Devil wears prada? Anyway, at least a ten year show(or movie, not sure which) that I remember being heavily advertised back when I was kid but never watched since I'm not interested either in live action tv or shows about fashion and work :p

So anyway, I didn't really concentrate on it, but there was this part about main character complaining about their work(don't remember what exactly, but I think it was about their higher up being really mean to them) to colleague/fashion designer and them basically replying "suck it up, you are whining, many would be willing to die to be in your job".

I was like "Geez, that is horrible" and "Geez, that wouldn't go through today in tv because there are so many horrible work environment scandals" :P Might be wrong about that, but that was my first reaction.

So why I'm bringing that up? Mostly because I realized that we are reaching the point where shows from 2000s are getting the "Err, geez, this is offensive" reactions out of people. Like, when you grow up, you think that kind of reactions are reserved for shows before your own generation

Edited by SpookyMask on Nov 3rd 2019 at 10:11:25 PM

The 2000 aren't the main generation anymore. We're in the 2019, practically the 2020s. Plus, social developments have felt..."faster", because seriously, we got to see the New Atheist phenomenon rise and die with It's voices becoming either average liberal or leftists ranting about Conservatives or going full alt right to keep their Muslim rants.

There tons of casea like them, but the New Atheist is IMO the most visible.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:12:23 PM

The New atheist is a good show of how much things change, they were one of the most critic of goberment, specially the US during bush administration and several of the borderly theocratic one of middle east and some of the stuff it happen there.

In fact one change I found profund was the whole day of blasphemy in which many religious authority figure complain about the irrespect people show to religion and wanted that to be made illegal, with many atheist point out two things: one that the term is ever nebulous that can mean anything they want and b)you can have the right to be offended but you cant have the right of not being offended.

Is interesting how much have change to day, with the idea that offensive or very transgresive content have become and edgy far right idea while the left become more....modest or moderate in their aproach, in fact while many of new atheist turn liberal, other turn anti SJW like armourd skeptic, atack feminism day and night.

Is really impresive phenomenon.

Has there ever been a work of fiction (other then Turner Diaries) that has advocated for Political Violance?

There is an entire (highly niche, for obvious reasons) genre of white supremacist fiction (mostly books and music) that advocates genocide and racially motivated murder. The Turner Diaries are the most well known example, but sadly aren't the only one.

The New Atheist phenomenon is an interesting one to analyze through a racial and feminist lens as a lot of its leadership turned out to have beliefs that weren't progressive because, well, they were products of their environment the same as other people. But that's all ideologies really.

Re: The Devil Wears Prada

Actually, I'd argue that the Devil Wears Prada aged badly in the same way that Reality Bites did. The premise is Anne Hathaway's character is in a high stress demanding job that she doesn't want. The thing is that she doesn't actually like fashion and doesn't know much about it and was hired over presumably many other equally qualified candidates (including the lady who coaches her through it). In the times of economic downturn, the privilege of quitting a high paying job in New York while also taking away from someone else's dreams feels very much like a First-World Problems crisis.

It and Reality Bites are, "Don't sell out and carry on your dream."

While the New Teens were, "Try not to starve to death in the streets."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:05:50 AM

Tom Kratman and to a lesser extent John Ringo come awfully close to this. I haven't read it but I've heard Victoria called the modern day Turner Diaries

Edited by tricksterson on Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:25:49 AM

I like how that trope page insists the books aren't Neo-Nazi then goes on a laundry list of people Nazis hate who are the villains trying to kill the heroic white people.

Are we sure that summary isn't being overly generous to that series?

The YMMV page is a similarly mixed bag between talking about how awful up the "heroes" are and how surprisingly awesome they seem. For crying out loud it seems that the Confederation reinstituted slavery. Them not being neo-Nazis is splitting hairs here.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:10:19 AM

Krautman and Ringo are both awful authors.

Oh and racists too.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 3rd 2019 at 9:45:31 AM

So, I finally got to watch Joker (2019).

Fuck, man. I have not seen a film as raw and dark like that in a long, long time. It's the first one to make me tell myself that it's just a film and to distance myself of it.

I understand a bit more why some critics said this movie is controversial. Just as much as it's Oscar worthy, I won't deny that, it hits close to home on too many levels, specially to those who are/were bullied or are down their luck.

I have yet to see it myself but I've heard wildly conflicting opinions over it and its messages. Some people who think it stigmatizes the mentally ill by suggesting that they're ticking time bombs and relies Anviliciously on entrenched and not-so-helpful tropes about them, while others who have mental illnesses describe the Joker as shockingly relatable and argue it does the opposite by highlighting the cruelty and lack of sympathy towards them and that any violence he does is the result of being driven to desperation. Then of course there's the class warfare themes and whether the movie does a good job with them or not since the Joker himself is supposed to be apolitical.

I've pretty much steered clear of this movie entirely. Everything I've heard about it has made me fairly certain it would just piss me off.

Even people who otherwise disliked the film have a lot of praise for Joaquin Phoenix and the people who are middling-to-positive argue that his performance compensates for or elevates the weaknesses of the original script. It seems like he's a major Just Here for Godzilla element of the film and I wouldn't be surprised if he provides a lot of nuance that might otherwise be absent given the crass bluntness of Todd Phillips' oeuvre.

Part of it is that I'm generally not a fan of works that make the villains the main characters and change their backstory so that they are sympathetic.

Why yes, I wasn't a fan of Maleficent.

I always had the impression that some of Joker's origins were sympathetic.

You can have sympathy for the person that became the Joker without sympathising with Joke himself.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 3rd 2019 at 8:25:35 PM

In Joker's case there's a lot of precedent, plus the fact that he's very chaotic with some shades of Chaotic Neutral occasionally overpowering his Chaotic Evil traits due to his insanity, so him having a more sympathetic backstory doesn't seem that unusual or whitewashing compared to Maleficent. It's just that these past depictions tend to lay on the melodrama rather thickly and again rely on tired tropes about the mentally ill to do so.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:27:09 PM

The thing is, part of the point was that one couldn't really be sure which if any of his origins were true. He very much had a Multiple-Choice Past. I'm not sure if it's better or worse that the comics' answer to the multiple choice past was "all of the above".

Another part of it is that I grew up watching BTAS which had perhaps the least sympathetic Joker of them all, what with him being a ruthless murderous gangster even before he got dunked in the chemicals. I was also first introduced to the character in the first Batman movie starring Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson, which also had a very unsympathetic Joker.

Edited by M84 on Nov 4th 2019 at 3:31:57 AM

As someone that went through bullying and social isolation, one of the themes I got from that movie was the importance of people who truly care about you and about being kind in general, sometimes we take for granted how our loved ones are also our anchors that keep us from veering the wrong path.

I disliked the movie's politics where the biggest danger of people running out into the streets and murdering people are Occupy Wallstreet.

I will say one thing I said in the Joker thread, the fears and arguments that the movie would spark violence mainly came from American commentators due to the number of mass shootings that have happened, while discourse from other countries (like a few Chinese clickbait headlines I've seen) on the movie were focused more on its views on bullying and society. I hate to play the 'Only in America' card, but this was hard not to notice.