Changelog - what just changed on TV Tropes?!

Unfortunately, that's correct. We know it's in progress, but how far into that progress and a firm completion date is still unknown to us. When we know something, we'll let everyone know if the admins don't post it first.

*sigh* I could rant about this particular aspect of the wiki's overall management for a while, as it touches more areas than just this. Suffice it to say, what we as mods consider to be complete, functional updates/fixes and what tends to actually happen don't coincide as much as we'd like.

Edited by Willbyr on Apr 1st 2019 at 6:39:48 AM

You could temporarily change the wording on the subscription page so it doesn't falsely advertise that you get a badge. Either say that the badge is coming soon, or don't mention it at all.

99 and 44/100ths % of the people who are paying for the subscription are doing so for the ad-free site experience, not for a few dozen pixels to put under their avatars. It's an additional perk, not the thing you paid for. Being a perk that's still not complete is unfortunate, but if you tried to bring suit about it you'd be laughed out of court.

Sure, but it's still something we were promised, and so we're at least allowed to complain about this promise not being upheld.

Would it be an issue to get one of the admins over to this thread so we could actually get some answers? It seems downright unfair to me that you mods have to deal with this outcry directly when you honestly don't know much more than the rest of us do, while the developers and admins have been silent and allowing this controversy to go down. It comes off as though they either don't want to deal with our concerns directly and would rather hide behind the mods, or that they just don't care to stop by and talk to us about it.

Really, for such an awesome site, the management here is lacking. If they keep rolling out updates like this without even attempting to let people know in advance, fully bug-test everything, and sticking around to directly engage with criticism, I really do fear for the future of Tv Tropes. This is not the first time it's happened, and I'm sure it won't be the last, so at the very least they could do us the small favor of popping in to say "We're listening".

Then let's talk about the fact that you guys dont send out receipts for the transaction or that the only way to manage your subscription is via a contact form no one answers to.

Meaning at the moment if someone is being charged monthly the only way to end further billing is by calling their credit card company and making them blacklist tvtropes and block any further charges.

And yeah I know it's supposedly being worked on but one can't help but notice no progress has been made on this and staffs radio silence doesn't engineer trust that the assurance it's being worked on is anything but empty platitudes.

Edited by Ghilz on Apr 2nd 2019 at 8:16:26 AM

I expect that, so much as they thought about it, they figured that people who sign up now won't want to cancel for a while, and if they do want to cancel before it's implemented, they may not have tools that make it easy, but they should have the ability to wade through the backend and remove people on request.

Edited by TParadox on Apr 2nd 2019 at 10:29:07 AM

Honestly, I think the root of all these discussions stem from malware ads all around the site, which is the reason why people use adblock.

Now, let me ask the mods, devs, or admins... Do you have the capability to control what ads are being posted on this site?

The most irritating ones here are the redirect ads and "cover the entire screen" intrusive ads.

I'm asking because... If you look at Reddit, their ads aren't intrusive, they appear as though they are an inserted Reddit post. On mobile, there may be that space below every post for ad placements, but it doesn't follow your screen when you scroll down, unlike this site which has a floating ad of some sorts. Oh and based from my experience, ads on Reddit don't automatically redirect you to sites... unless you clicked on them. And I had never for once found a redirect / malware-filled ad on You Tube.

All I'm saying is, surely a site has a way of customizing how and what ads are shown in the screen. Would it be possible for TV Tropes?

With that in mind, people may be okay with turning off adblockers... if they are confident that TV Tropes is safe and user-friendly to browse even with ads.

Edited by DanteVin on Apr 3rd 2019 at 12:35:28 AM

My understanding is that they use a service that sells ads on the site for them, and while there are things that are not permitted for ads to do, rulebreaking ads can get through and can only be banished by being reported through some process I don't know how practical it can be, because the process is so automated that humans only check them when they're reported.

Problem being the contact form isn't being monitored in seems, based on the general lack of answers to anything sent there.

I think @Dante Vin has a point: the better majority of people who use adblockers are doing so for security reasons. I want to be able to browse in peace without risking a virus. I think @altsan described this issue perfectly in another thread, which I'll copy verbatim because I agree with his/her stance:

I get that the site has to be paid for. Honestly, I don't object too much to the idea of an ad-free pass in general. Actually, I don't even object to the idea of ads, as long as they're non-obnoxious and don't harm my system.

However... the problem is that this is effectively being used as a workaround for a much more fundamental, and very serious, problem. Namely: the ad service being used on the site is compromised by malware. Quite badly so. This means that allowing ads while visiting TV Tropes is genuinely a security risk for users.

The site's administrators have the right to try and maintain a revenue stream for the site. [At the same time, however,] Users have the right — the inalienable right — to do what is necessary to protect their systems from malware and security threats. The real problem here is that we reached a state where these two rights are in conflict with each other.

The idea of an ad-free pass is, all else being equal, a pretty logical band-aid. Unfortunately, it is a band-aid, not a solution. The only real solution is to fix the underlying conflict, and it seems to me that can only be done by either fixing the ad service, or finding a non-broken one.

[...] ...running a web site (or any other service) means that you own any problems — whether or not they're your doing. If your client base has a problem, and it's outside your power to fix, you escalate through the proper channels until you find the person who can fix it. If they are unable or unwilling to do so, it may be time to start looking for different channels to partner with.

A non-broken ad service would make the site more stable, more reliable, and thus more appealing to potential visitors, so even if it costs more it would be an investment worth considering.

No offense but I've been using you guys site for years and having these anti adblock nagging ads on every single page is really irritating to me. I dislike ads in the first place because they are distracting to my eyes, and I have been using adblocking software in my browsers for 10+ years to avoid them. Moreover, having also had an experience where ads have infected my computer, I'm inclined not to trust them. My computer has not been infected by browser based malware as long as I have been using an adblocker. Because ads are so often compromised as everyone in this thread has already said, many of us who are browsing with adblockers are not intending to do so out of malice or not wanting to pay your bills, it is because we cannot afford to get malicious files on our computers.

Another note, on the cost of a subscription, I am a college student. I am not rich, I am not made of money. When it comes to services like netflix and other sub services, me and my family leech off one person's subscription who can afford it. I cannot really afford your subscription, I have other things I need to pay for. That may sound "entitled", but I don't think me not wanting to pay is necessarily the issue, the issue is that you guys include these popups on EVERY SINGLE PAGE and it's obnoxious.

I do not want to see these banners pop up on every page, especially on mobile where it blatantly annoys me and I'm tired of having to click out of it, maybe once when I enter the site is fine, but to say it on every single page I visit is, in my humble opinion, overkill. It is very much overkill. I got it the first time, you don't like me using my adblocker. Nag me once, and be done with it. Counting each page I land on is invasive. Begging on each page, is invasive.

I've been a browser of TV Tropes for years and I am saddened that this is the state that the site has come to. One of my frequent forum sites did this as well, a long time before you guys, and I was equally appalled with them.

Do it on a few pages, or do it on the first landing page, fine, but do not do it on EVERY SINGLE PAGE I HAVE TO SEE WITH A COUNTER. I CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, I'm a student, and I use adblock as a way to protect my laptop/phone/devices and keep my eyes from getting horribly muddled with thousands of bombardment ads.

I'm sorry, but I am very disappointed in you guys for having such intrusive and nigh unavoidable anti adblock popups. I'm sure this sentiment has been expressed time and time again but as someone who's had an account here for years, I don't like this at all.

Edited by AmyChan on Apr 2nd 2019 at 1:25:46 PM

~Amy Chan~~ you can deactivate that message after contributing to a clean-up effort, see?

I feel like people are ignoring the malvertising problem this place has. And if there is any indication of the consequences, we are already seeing them take shape. I hear a lot about reporting the advertisement, but it has gone as much as to become a hydra; if you remove one malvertisement, many more take its place. At this point, I would actually press the developers to pick an uncompromised ad network as it has become clear ignoring the problem has already resulted in unforseen consequences, such as loss of revenue and trust in the users.

That really is the fundamental issue: People block ads because that's pretty much the only option they have to protect themselves and their devices from malware and other ways that ads try to take control of their browsing. No one at any level seems to be doing anything about the problem, and playing Whack-a-mole by reporting ads is about as effective as draining the ocean with an eyedropper. What other choices are there for protecting ourselves?

No amount of nagging is going to get people to open up their browsers to something they see as a threat. The only way TV Tropes is going to get users to whitelist in significant numbers is taking real action to take control of the ads that get served. If the current ad service can't or won't keep malicious ads off, give them the boot and find one that will.

I already have the subscription, so the ads no longer affect me, but I also think we need to get this site a better ad-distributor. When the ads aren't malware, they're giant ads that take too long to load so I'd click on them in trying to click on, say, the ATT link, and if they're not those they're often ads to clickbait articles or just the same ads 800 times a day... in essence, almost every ad is an Ad of Lose.

I may be late to the party on this one but...

Anime News Network now also encourages a subscription method. Hmmm... What a coincidence would it be for two of the sites I visit to suddenly implement a similar thing within a given period of time! Thing is... ANN seems to be blatant, explicit or transparent on why they need to implement it... right on the subscription page it says

CMIIW on this one but... I don't see anything like this detailed and unfiltered explanation on TV Tropes... Something that would at least justify why the subscribers should be encouraged and willing to offer money in the first place, or some sort of motivating explanation to make the loyal users to give money "now" instead of later...

It's just a coincidental tidbit that I saw... Websites left and right implementing subscriptions in the same year? Advertisers cutting their budgets? And CPM rates dropping?

Edited by DanteVin on Apr 5th 2019 at 8:22:52 PM

It's been a growing concern for years. Advertising rates are falling because banner ads don't work anymore. I follow a lot of webcomic artists that have entirely or almost entirely switched from ad-supported models to Patreon-supported models.

I also read an article a few years ago that pointed out the vicious cycle of web advertising: as adblockers become more prevalent, the more annoying and therefore more effective ads become increasingly the only viable option for ad-supported websites to be able to make ends meet on the fewer and fewer impressions that they get thanks to most users not seeing their ads, but the more annoying the ads get, the more people will get adblockers.

Edited by TParadox on Apr 5th 2019 at 10:45:39 AM

You know, these recent posts have me wondering: why don't the TVT higherups switch over to an ad service that actually vets their ads to prevent malware-infested ads from getting through, or test out a Patreon model and see how much interest there is for that? Seems like it'd resolve the issues people are having with the ads on this site, and I think a Patreon for TVT would do well. Has it been attempted in the past? Because if no attempts have been made, then that feels like negligence towards protecting the users from malware that would hurt the site's reputation and would encourage more people to use adblockers on the site.

Edited by FF00FF on Apr 6th 2019 at 10:22:59 AM

I find it hilarious I can block moderators, not that I've done it.

It's my understanding that the better ad providers don't want to serve the Wiki because of the history of hosting discussions of adult content (*pearl clutch*) and still having random creepy stuff in the wiki.

Quick question: How long does each snooze last, provided one edits the wiki regularly?

- IIRC, a week.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15374859790A10773600&page=10#comment-246

Edited by Malady on Apr 7th 2019 at 6:36:46 AM

I'm pretty sure that American law doesn't enforce anyone's right to access material without compensation. You're not allowed to go to a movie theater and watch the new Avengers without paying for the experience, you're not allowed to take stuff from Wal-Mart without giving them money, and you can't even access YouTube anymore without paying them directly or watching commercials.

There is no violation of rights there. (I would agree that we have the right to protect our devices from malicious software, but that's clearly not what you're saying.)