During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Katherine Hall is from Ace Attorney Investigations 2 aka: Gyakuten Kenji 2.
Gotta love Jaws!
I just realised that technically speaking this means a page is possible seeing as we have seven. Not that I want one rushed out or anything since I know that's been an issue in the past.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Same, without AA it's genuinely smaller than some of our subpages.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Apr 12th 2021 at 12:14:54 PM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Hall, Tallis and Skaldak
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Hector. Not really seeing any bastard cred here.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Apr 12th 2021 at 12:09:08 PM
I'd rather not just cuz of how the VN page is tbh.
for Hall, Tallis and Skaldak
for Hector.
Goku Black
Yeah at least fate was interconnected and split over Multiple mediums causing an issue.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
A very happy to Grand Marshal Skalad. He really put the Ice Warriors back on the map after so long.
I'll presently abstain on Hector pending more information.
Now I've really been looking forward to this collaboration and I’ll get to my first Doctor Who candidate up in a little bit later on (unless of course people feel there are too many effort posts going on today, in which case I’ll put it off till tomorrow) but first I just want to get one more Midsomer Murders candidate done today.
So from one of the most recent episodes to air, from season 21’s “With Baited Breath” I give you Artie Blythe.
Who Is He:
A former Detective Inspector at Causton CID, Artie is an former colleague and friend of Chief Inspector John Barnaby, nicknamed “Next DCI, Artie Blythe” for his skills as an investigator. A native to Solomon Gorge, Artie had an affair with the local Pub owner Isobel Silvermane back in the early 90’s. Unbeknownst to him it produced a daughter who her mother called Lola.
Just before Lola’s 18th birthday Isobel told Artie that he was her father. Taking the advice of his best friend Ned Skye, Artie pushed to have a relationship with her, even buying her a gold necklace. However, following a fight between Isobel and Lola, Lola attempted to move in with him. Being too soon and not knowing how to be a dad, Artie told her to go back home to her mother.
Unfortunately on the same day was the end of a big fishing competition at the gorge, thus the winner Lex Bedford, Blaise McQuinn, Ned and local lad Griffin Twigg were returning from their celebrations at the pub in the next village. Lex kept messing around shoving the Trophy in Griffin’s face. As Lola was walking home through the woods, a distracted Griffin didn’t see her in time and crashed Ned’s jeep into her. She was dead instantly.
Rather than confess the four of them agreed to stash her body in the Jeep, push it into the lake and deny all knowledge. Ned claimed the next day his Jeep was stolen, and as Lola had taken her suitcase with her, everyone assumed she’d simply left the village. To complete the illusion Blaise started sending Isobel postcards (being a professional angler she travelled around the world) making it look like Lola was safely traveling.
Convinced him turning her away was the reason she left Artie took early retirement and dedicated himself to finding Lola, hoping to apologise. When the postcards started to arrive but never any for him, he assumed that was a sign she no longer wanted anything to do with him.
Thus after ten years he felt he was getting on with his life, even helping Ned set up his own version of the psycho obstacle course race in the gorge. However, a sighting of the legendary Ahab caused Lola’s former fiancé Freddie Lamb to manage to start a new fishing contest, with the two dates clashing.
Amongst those returning to the gorge was Lex Bedford, who had retired from fishing following the crash and was now here for the run. Following an attempted sabotage of the race Artie met up with John and the two happily reconnected, with Artie admitting retirement wasn’t all it was cracked up to be and he was thinking about re-joining the force. Thus John let him tag along convinced a bit of local knowledge would be helpful.
However, due to being back proved too much for Lex who overcome with guilt went to talk to Artie, still thinking he was simply a cop and confessed everything. Luring the truth caused something to snap with in Artie, and thus he vowed to get revenge for what they did to Lola.
Lex still unable to handle his guilt contacted Artie to meet up, Artie thus arranged for it to be at the part of course that meant going through the lake, where Ned had set up wires to provide a minor electric shock. That night they met up, but as Lex came to meet him confessing his sorrow and how he never intended to return to Solomon’s Gorge, Artie had secretly rigged it so he was fatally electrocuted. He then returned everything to normal and left.
Continuing to seemingly assist Inspector Barnaby with the investigation following finding Lex’s body, Artie quickly turned his attention his next target Ned. Luring him out into the woods one night, he murdered him then the next day managed to move the body and dump it in a barrel of bait in Freddie’s shop to confuse the crime scene.
Afterwards Artie comforted Ned’s daughter Simone (the two had had a big fight just before his death) assuring her that her father thought the world of her.
Going after Griffin, Artie having stolen a slingshot from Freddie’s store whilst everyone was distracted earlier, and that night tried to use it to kill Griffin in the woods. Unfortunately for him he instead accidentally killed Griffin’s friend Cornelius Tetbury as Cornelius had been wearing Griffin’s distinctive multi-coloured hat. Realising his mistake, Artie quickly dragged Cornelius’s body to Freddie’s cabin the woods, and stashed it in the freezer he kept bait in to confuse the time of death.
Then during dinner with Inspector Barnaby and his family, he subtly made a cool from Cornelius’s mobile phone. Also pausing to reassure Inspector Barnaby’s daughter Betty after she lost her teddy bear.
Planting the phone back on when he and Inspector Barnaby found the body the next day, it looked like Cornelius had died several hours later giving him an alibi.
The investigation discovering the Jeep and Lola’s body, following figuring out what really happened Artie continued to mislead the investigation pushing the theory that one of the four involved was killing the others to maintain the secret as at this point both Blaze and Griffin had disappeared (Griffin had snuck away, whilst Artie had already kidnapped Quinn).
However, upon the coroner figuring out the real time that Cornelius died, Inspector Barnaby managed to figure out what was really going on (ironically the final clue being a gift he received from Artie, of two teddy bears for his daughter, thus giving him Artie’s address in the middle of the forest right on Lola’s path).
By this point Artie realising Inspector Barnaby was to close and unable to find Griffin, decided to cut his losses. Tying her to a giant rock, he rowed his boat out to the middle of the lake. Inspector Barnaby arriving on the pier upon seeing him Artie congratulated him, admitting he knew he’d figure it out in the end as he was just too smart not to, though he was hoping he’d have had a bit more time.
Inspector Barnaby tried to keep him talking, getting Artie to confess how he found out Lola was his daughter and what had really happened to her. He also admitted that he honestly hated lying to him about it, but not willing to go to prison and he declared he’d just have to hope Lola would forgive him for not also getting Griffin, and then tying the rope around himself he threw them both into the lake.
Fortunately Sergeant Winter and PC Pierce both dived in and managed to cut the rope before they drowned. Pulling them both out, they were both arrested.
Is He Intelligent? Charming? Magnificent?
Oh absolutely Artie is presented as a well-meaning, easy going, quick witted and warm hearted man, who is on good terms with most of the people in the village. It’s likewise made clear that Inspector Barnaby considered him a very good friend when the two worked together, he even congratulates John on his married life and fatherhood.
As for intelligence, Artie was held as a brilliant detective during his time (to the point everyone expected him to make Chief first) and it really shows throughout the episode. He successfully manages to continually undermine and steer the investigation off course, all whilst seemingly being a constantly helpful and hand working assistance towards them. With Artie successfully committing the murders right under the police’s very noses. Inspector Barnaby himself admits his gambit with Cornelius’s phone was quite clever.
Artie does make some minor slip ups which help key Inspector Barnaby to what’s really going on by the end, such as during his comforting of Simone (which is completely genuine, he does honestly care about her and did consider her father his closest friend in the world right up until he discovered what he had done) mentioned Ned put him to shame. However, considering his genuine emotional anguish at the time I’m willing to forgive a slip of the tongue.
Likewise unlike most killers in this show Artie doesn’t breakdown, he’s honestly quite calm and impressed when confronted at the end. It’s only as Inspector Barnaby pushes him that his control starts to shake, and that’s just down to the pain that losing his daughter and spending ten years believing it was his fault clearly caused him. Even Sergeant Winter ends up admitting his sympathy towards him for having to do that.
Is he A Bastard? To Much?
I mean as Inspector Barnaby himself points out, Artie did kill three people when he simply could have turned them all into the authorities.
However, considering what the experience put him through for ten years is understandable he’d want his revenge (he himself considers it justice for what they did to Lola). He likewise admits that he’s sorry about killing Cornelius as his death was a complete accident and wishes it had never happened.
Conclusion?
I understand revenge seekers might be seeming a bit part and parcel at this point, but Artie Blythe is still a pretty impressive candidate. As such I think he’s a keeper.
What do you think?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 12th 2021 at 12:22:43 PM
Goku Black
Artie
A total has-been.
Definite Katherine Hall. Abstaining on the other recent proposals at the moment.
Goku Black
Uh guys could we have more discussion on Robert's candidate Nameless. Seems to have forgotten him
I'll toss in a yes for him.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yea to Artie and one other Boardwalk Empire character to discuss: John Torrio.
Who is Torrio?
Giovanni "Johnny" Torrio is a Chicago kingpin, introduce as the right-hand man of Giacomo "Big Jim" Colosimo in the pilot episode. Forging a business relationship with Nucky Thompson at a time when the famed Al Capone is only lowly driver, Torrio helps to facilitate meetings with Nucky, Arnold Rothstein and Colosimo who prefers to focus on gambling and prostitution...Torrio puts together the meeting, but to his irritation? Colosimo refuses to get involved with bootlegging. Torrio proceeds to contact New York gangster Franke Yale and has him "retire" Colosimo...taking over the rackets in Chicago and denying any involvement...Torrio also benefits from a shipment sent to Rothstein hijacked by Nucky's wayward protege James "Jimmy" Darmody and Capone to be delivered to him. Darmody and Capone take up work for Torrio, with Darmody becoming involved with a girl at one of Torrio's brothels...Capone's conflict with another gangster named Sheridan results in him scarring the girl, Pearl's face...Torrio is forced to negotiate his way through a potential war....
Torrio helps Jimmy and Capone to arrange Sheridan's death at a 'peace treaty', deciding that Greek Street belongs to them....Torrio spends the rest of S1 mentoring Jimmy and Capone, profiting off bootlegging and by S2, he cautions Capone to do the business he wants in Atlantic City but leave Torrio himself out....Torrio is seen to be a level-headed, capable business owner who continues to assist his proteges, but a major issue comes with a conflict with the Irish mobster Dean O'Banion of the North Side of Chicago who has been expanding too much...Torrio sees through O'Banion's excuses, but manages to work it out. Then O'Banion mocks Capone and more than that? Capone's deaf son. Torrio has to physically restrain Capone, shouting at the guys to get O'Banion the hell out and talks Capone down...
Business proceeds as usual until O'Banion makes peace by selling Torrio a brewery...and then the cops bust in and arrest Torrio not five minutes after signing the document. The normally conciliatory Torrio changes gears at this and decides he wants O'Banion dead, having him assassinated by Frankie Yale in O'Banion's floral shop (the real O'Banion worked as a florist because he enjoyed it, a fact I've never found not bizarre and fascinating).
Torrio is almost killed later and decides he needs to retire. Leaving for Europe, he passes the torch to Capone, later returning in S5 as Lansky and Luciano are taking over the rackets...Torrio gives Nucky an assist...but is in truth more than happy to work with the duo. He instead sets Nucky up to be killed or to have his business taken, exploiting his reputation as a peacemaker to do it.
Torrio...suffers no consequences, instead living to his seventies and dying later in 1957. A crime journalist would have this to say of him: "As an organizer and administrator of underworld affairs Johnny Torrio is unsurpassed in the annals of American crime; he was probably the nearest thing to a real mastermind that this country has yet produced"
How's he operate?
Torrio is one of the best. It's worth noting he exploits his own rep by the end to set Nucky up, betrays his own boss, plays his way through exceptionally deadly games and comes out mostly on top. His retirement is done on his own terms as well....The one time Torrio is brought down by O'Banion...well, a few things there: it barely affects him, Torrio is released before long and its more an annoyance.
IT's also predicated on O'Banion doing literally the stupidest thing possible and Torrio credited him with at least some brains. The most blatant double cross in possibly the entire show, and it gets O'Banion killed. Probably the angriest we ever see Torrio.
I should note Torrio is surprisingly less bigoted than most other gangsters. He seems to have no problems with the Irish and tells Al Capone he could do well to learn from the Jews (where gangsters like Masseria, Rosetti, etc. are insanely antisemitic)
Is he a bastard?
He's a bootlegging, backstabbing murderer. I mean, whitewashed or not, you can't be in the Mafia and be a good guy. Boardwalk Torrio is likely heavily whitewashed from the real one, since while he does manage brothels, he's never shown to be pressuring or engaging in sex slavery, in addition to treating the girls very well. He does show he's prepared to kick Pearl out, but he views this as a business decision since she can't work with her face scarred and isn't happy about it. Jimmy offers to sponsor her, and Torrio's only objection is Jimmy can't pay him a hundred bucks a day.
That aside, though, Torrio hits a pretty even balance.
Conclusion?
I'd call him a keeper.
Goku Black
Torrio
to Nameless (sorry about missing him) and Johnny Torrio.
Read Torrio’s EP up until the stuff in Season 5 (I’m only on Season 4). I’d totally vote if I could finish reading it, but for what it’s worth, I’m a yes based on what I could read.
EDIT 5/24: Clear to Torrio as well.
So the order would be Rothstein, Torrio, Lucky? I think Lucky would clearly be last given he’s not qualified yet at the point I’m watching.
Richard Harrow too heroic to count?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 24th 2021 at 10:21:42 AM
Harrow is nowhere near too heroic to keep. His scheme to draw the D'alessio brothers out of hiding is based around murdering their innocent relatives.
The issue is he falters hard. Harrow is more a follower than anything and S4 is all about losing his nerve. He dies because he botches an assassination attempt due to his own conscience and shakiness and dies as a result.
@Lighty I wasn’t that far yet... But yeah, makes sense.
Valentin Narcisse from Season 4 based off what I’ve seen of him and the season so far seems like a very intuitive and methodical character. There’s probably more I need to see to get a bigger picture of him though and why he likely doesn’t count (he does seem to have a racial bias form the looks of it for one thing).
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 12th 2021 at 1:39:05 AM
There is zero chance Narcisse counts. He's elitist, classist and misogynist, setting aside his bizarre racial views
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 12th 2021 at 1:45:25 AM
@Lighty I did consider at least one of those things was why he didn’t count.
Not gonna try to guess on why others do or don’t count right now. Probably best to just try and finish the show some point soon instead.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 12th 2021 at 1:49:33 AM
Hall, Tallis and Skaldak.
Yeah I remember that Narcisse being too much of a smug jackass to have any charm. Plus he beat that poor girl pretty bad (was that his wife or daughter?)
Anywho anymore votes on Hector? I think that I said all that I could on him though from others comments he might not be enough of a bastard as I initially believed
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 12th 2021 at 5:12:51 AM
G: Could you elaborate a bit more on Hector's bastardly credentials. Just to be clear how badly do the people he goes after mistreat the Cheyenne? Are we talking serious crime or petty theft? Does he make distinctions?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 12th 2021 at 2:16:17 AM
Skalad, Artie, Torrio.
Thinking on it Hector.
I would say the most compelling characters in Boardwalk Empire: Jimmy, Richard, Narcisse, Chalky and Nucky are not MBs. They all have various problems, but it shows you can be compelling and interesting without the label.
So it's been three days: Vicious is a cut, right? I see 43 cut him from the sandbox. Why don't we have a nervous sweat emoticon...
Nevermind you were replying to G.
I was agreeing with that. I said he was compelling (and I stand by that). But he's very monstrous. In addition his end is absolutely pathetic.
Edited by jjjj2 on Apr 12th 2021 at 5:57:33 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Daughter Maitland is a girl Narcisse adopted and uses for his schemes. He murdered her mother and has a creepy misogynist bent around it. I cannot describe in how many ways Narcisse isn't a keeper
Abstain on Hector.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to Skaldak.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"