Moral Event Horizon cleanup

To give some context, the Irate Gamer often does really immoral things, but everyone treats him like a hero. In the Kool Aid Man episode, he is playing the Kool Aid man games, and KAM keeps breaking his walls, so eventually he murders the KAM and urns his corpse into a drinking machine. The ending of the episode reveals this took place around Christmas time. He has a MEH entry for murdering the KAM around Chrustmas time just for doing what he always does (destroying walls). In a later episode, KAM reappears alive and well without explanation, and neither he or the Irate Gamer seem to mind each other afterward. The IG has done other things like blowing up Ubisoft as an act of revenge because he couldn't get in, and murdering the X-Men for petty reasons (talking back to him, revealing there is a bonus level in a game he hates, saying the bonus level was cool when he hated it). The X-Men themselves appear alive and well in another episode. Here is his Designated Hero entry:

• Designated Hero: The Irate Gamer himself. In his Back to the Future review, he goes back in time and murders the creator of the game to erase the game from time. In his Kool Aid Man review, he murders the Kool Aid Man for doing what he does... ON CHRISTMAS. In his E.T review, he blows up a U.F.O taking back the games because of how bad they were. In his X-Men review, he kills Wolverine for talking back to him, Cyclops for revealing there is a bonus level, and Iceman for saying the bonus level could be considered a cool easter egg. In his G.I. Joe review, he kills the creator of the game. In one video, he blows up Ubisoft because he couldn't get in. This would be one thing if he were just an Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist like most Caustic Critics, except that he has an Evil Twin called The Evil Gamer who hasn't killed anyone and is generally nowhere near as bad a person.

Speaking of the evil twin...

• Designated Villain: The Evil Gamer and Shadow Overlord, though the Evil Gamer in particular. The worst he does is threaten the Irate Gamer, who is hardly innocent himself. Although they are trying to Take Over the World, it's undermined by how utterly incompetent they are at it.

Now, in fairness, the KAM and X-Men came back to life later on, and KAM doesn't seem to hold a grudge. Also, for all his DH actions, he has done some genuine heroic things (he twice saved the city and stopped the Pixel Demon from taking over the world). He has also been consistently treated as a hero in universe despite his actions. This is his MEH entry:

• Moral Event Horizon: The Irate Gamer himself murdering Kool-Aid Man for doing what he does on Christmas.

I don't know, KAM came back to life later on, and he and Chris got along afterward. Should this entry be cut?

Yes, Irate Gamer should be cut. The characters in-universe do not treat him like a villain despite knowing what he did, meaning he is not eligible for the trope.

Given that IG is a complaint magnet, I say cut.

Yeah, I think it should instead go under Never Live It Down, which, I think, is the equivalent of this trope when it's only seen as this from the audience's perspective.

It's not quite an equivalent, but it's close enough.

From Western Animation/Ratatoing

• Moral Event Horizon: Marcel sends the rival rats to an animal testing lab for trying to steal recipes from him. It's made even worse because his recipes rely on stealing Food from a human Restaurant — when he tries to cook without them, his dishes end up being mediocre.

Despite the negative items being potholed, the the characters don’t hold it against him for doing those acts. Should this be cut?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 8th 2019 at 5:00:56 AM

Marcel isn't evil, so that's a shoehorn.

Well he isn’t considered evil in in-universe. The audience is a whole different story.

Also, if a character has crossed the MEH in one instalment, does it disqualify them from crossing it in another instalment or not?

Characters who cross the MEH need to be evil. That's not a negotiable factor.

Ratatoing needs cleanup in general for bashing.

Someone put the Whites from South Park in Moral Event Horizon because of their treatment of Alehandro

- The Whites (except Jason, mainly thanks to being dead) cross the line when they abuse their adopted Mexican son Alejandro in "Season Finale" to the point of making him become Mexican Joker.

I honestly don't think this counts as an MEH because this is SOUTH PARK, rarely do you ever see a good parent so it feels more like South Park stupidity rather than evil. Can I remove them?

The line is so ridiculously high for South Park that it's nearly impossible to pass. I'd go with a cut.

Could Bart Simpson have a Moral Event Horizon? The Simpsons S18 E3 "Please Homer, Don't Hammer 'Em" has this:

• Moral Event Horizon: For some, Bart crosses it when he tries to use Skinner's peanut allergy against him.

Given that The Simpsons is infamous for its Negative Continuity, any harm Bart does to Skinner in this episode is inexplicably undone by the next, so this example feels like complaining to me.

Correct. It's misuse. Kill it until it dies.

Another Simpsons misuse, this time from YMMV.The Simpsons S 10 E 8 Homer Simpsons In The Kidney Trouble. Both of the items on the page are misuse so I put it the page the cutlist.

• Moral Event Horizon: Homer leaving his father to die to a fatal body malfunction that he's responsible for in the first place. When he blurts it out to a group of people who are no saints themselves (having done stuff like stealing instruments from blind monkeys), their immediate reaction is to toss him overboard in disgust.

From YMMV.The Simpsons S 18 E 18 The Boys Of Bummer

• Moral Event Horizon:
  • The entire city of Springfield cross this line when they torture Bart (a 10-year-old boy) to suicide for no good reason whatsoever (in which they even encourage him to do), and even as Bart is revived, they still don't stop harassing him. They (arguably insincerely) apologize to Bart for all of this, but what they did was irredeemable beyond all belief and it's an honest mystery as to why the family has not left Springfield at this point. Not to mention that it's heavily implied that they would have killed Bart themselves if Marge did not intervene.
  • LaBoot especially crosses the line when he starts to encourage the rest of the people to harass Bart into the Despair Event Horizon. And it is implied that other children were also attacked before with similar results, giving LaBoot a body count.

I really don’t think groups of people should qualify for the MEH. Not to mention that this was a Jerkass Ball moment for Springfield, and the whole Negative Continuity thing. Not sure about the second example, but it seems like it fits.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 29th 2019 at 4:31:01 PM

Agree, with pretty much all your posts and points.

What do you guys think of this entry?

The Simpsons S8 E11 "The Twisted World of Marge Simpson":

• Moral Event Horizon: The Investorettes go from Jerkass Rivals to outright villains in the third act, when they hire the Yakuza to kill the Simpsons and the Springfield Mafia. Though the reason to do so was slightly justified, considering their van was destroyed, but the group was still willing to kill the family even after seeing the Mafia turn against Marge and Homer.

To be fair, I think the majority of Simpsons examples can go as every single character has been a sociopath at least once (Lisa included), so it really makes the MEH crossable by literally everyone and anyone.

Besides, I believe it was actually Homer who hired the Mafia to deal with their business rivals sales if I remember this episode correctly. As for Boys of Bummer, Bart has literally done every horrible thing imaginable to that town if the show didn't suffer from NC I'd say it's not justified but definitely not as bad as what Bart does on a regular basis.

YMMV.Mega Man X 4

• Moral Event Horizon: If Magma Dragoon dropping the Sky Lagoon and killing millions of innocent people just to fight X and Zero wasn't bad enough, he has the gall to gloat to X about how he would do it again.

I’m not too sure about this one, because Magma Dragoon also has a valid Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry that suggests we’re supposed to be sympathetic towards him because he wanted to fight X or Zero (which he did by dropping the Sky Lagoon. What are your guys opinions on it?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 1st 2019 at 7:11:00 AM

I've watched Star vs the Forces of Evil and this one from Season 4:

• Moon crosses it in Here to Help. Just because they were so distrustful of Eclipsa and felt she was a poor ruler, Moon gave Mina's attempt at regicide the jump start it needed by restarting the Solarian program despite her own denouncing of it, and was secretly the one in charge of both Mina's and the Council's attempts at a Coup the entire time. Even the revelation they only intended to exile Eclipsa and her family rather than kill them, and wanted no civilian casualties, does nothing to lessen this, especially when Moon's grudge against Eclipsa was due to her interference during her fight with Meteora, leading her to end up in the Realm of Magic and be separated from her family... which wouldn't have happened had Moon not acted rashly and continued to attack Meteora when Eclipsa was succeeding in talking her down. They still willingly armed Mina thinking they could use them as a tool, only to unsurprisingly lose control, and put Star, her friends, and numerous innocent mewmans' and monsters' lives at stake in the process. All because they didn't like or trust Eclipsa who, at this point, has proven to be more trustworthy than them.

If Moon has remorse over her actions and Star and Moon reconcile at the end, then this shouldn't count as a MEH for Moon. I propose we cut it from the page.

Don't know the work, but holy fuck that sounds forced.

Did we ever reach a consensus on whether or not redeemed villains are eligible for the MEH crossing if they did it when they were evil and there was no inkling they were going to be good again? Breezepelt from Warrior Cats attempting to (and nearly succeeding) murdering his two half brothers because his dad was (at the time) extremely neglectful for instance. Plus he also tried to kill a pregnant she-cat.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 14th 2019 at 2:53:39 AM

I am not sure how a "redeemed" anything could possibly have a Moral Event Horizon under the current definition of that trope.

, This isn't Complete Monster. Look 2-3 pages back in this thread and you'll see that we did indeed reach a consensus that it is possible for a character to cross the MEH and later (partially or fully) redeem themselves.