Trump and ROCEJ

Can we remove this bit from TearJerker.Zootopia?

The above point, especially the end of Gazelle's speech, is especially poignant and heartbreaking after the results of the U.S. presidential election. The overall sentiment being expressed regarding both that and the increasing amount of hate crimes is, "This is not the America I know...give me back the America I love." Let's leave it at that.

Sounds like a stealth Harsher in Hindsight, so cut.

Also, from Memes.US Politics:

• "That hurricane was trying to protect us".^explanation After Trump won the election, many users stated that Hurricane Matthew was trying to protect the country — referring to the fact that either people would rather be dead than live through a Trump presidency, or that Matthew could have created conditions that would have given Hillary Clinton the presidency.
• Fire and Fury^Explanation After an intelligence report claimed North Korea had the ability to fit a miniaturized nuclear warhead on its missiles, Trump made some off-the-cuff comments during a press conference about how that country would be met with "fire and fury" if it threatened the United States or its allies. Naturally, this led to a great deal of widespread anxiety that he was about to start a nuclear war, even causing a spike in Google searches on the topic. North Korea later threatening to launch missiles towards the U.S. territory of Guam did not help matters at all.
  • And a spin-off due to one unfortunate typo on a newspaper - "Fire and Furry".

Besides ROCEJ, they seem recent, too recent to say they took off as memes. Last I checked, we were considering locking the page, what became of that?

edited 4th Sep '17 10:25:48 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

Quotes.Crying Wolf:

Maybe if y'all hadn't said the same thing about Romney, McCain, and pretty much everybody else who wasn't a Democrat over the last 20 years, people would have taken you seriously this time.

— JNowe, Fark, on Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 US presidential election.

Do we need that? I'm not aware that this person is interesting enough for their words to be quoteworthy, and my understanding is that the people who said those things genuinely believed them every time, making it not even an example.

edited 5th Sep '17 2:29:14 PM by wingedcatgirl

It was added in November 2016, so I imagine that was a heat-of-the-moment sort of thing. I think it's not meant to be an example but rather a quote about something that is an example, namely Democrats "saying the same thing" about all those different people. I think it can be cut for the implication that every Democrat is a liar, but also for the implication that the weird demonization of Trump prior to the election was somehow completely true. Basically, I think it has enough reasons to cut it.

Also from the Zootopia Tearjerker page, there's this part.

• On a related note, and as a capstone, the fact that the film's main theme is about diversity, tolerance, and overcoming prejudice...in a year when, increasingly, the real world seems to be collapsing back into nationalism, white supremacy, hate crimes, police brutality, and worse. From Gazelle's saddened speech about this no longer being the Zootopia she knew and loved, to Bogo's comment about the world already being broken, to Bellwether's smug declaration as to the usefulness of fear, to Judy's heartfelt ending speech about trying to understand one another, trying to make the world a better place, and change beginning with you...it all rather sounds to the cynic and pessimist like a plea that came too late, and to the idealist and optimist is proof of how far we still have to go.

Even though it doesn't mention Trump anywhere, I feel like this is a bit flame bait-y.

Agreed. Kill it with fire.

About Trump's entry under EnsembleDarkHorse.Real Life.

Given this thread, it's likely an understatement he falls under Base-Breaking Character and not Dark Horse.

I think this is more Dark Horse Victory than anything else, which would also remove any controversy.

Objections to moving or cutting if already there?

But he was the Ensemble Dark Horse. The fact he won doesn't change that...?

In the scene that he was the unexpected winner, But Ensemble Dark Horse as a trope refers to an unexpectedly popular character. Yes, they are connected in this case, but can someone with such a significant (by popular vote, majority) hatedom qualify? What is the like/dislike ratio that would disqualify one from being a Darkhorse?

I'm taking this to the Darkhorse Cleanup thread.

Trump doesn't even remotely count. It's shown many times that his approval rating is low.

Is Base-Breaking Character really appropiate? Trump was already a well known and powerful man before entering to politics.

Base-Breaking Character requires there to be a work. I would take this question to the Broken Base clean-up thread, but my initial understanding would be that Trump and politicians cannot qualify as Base Breaking Characters.

It's brought up on the Darkhorse thread that, since politicians are not part of an ensemble, they can't begin to qualify. Most of them are just examples of Dark Horse Victory.

It also list the US founding fathers, who I believe are not minor characters.

That each candidate has campaigns to make them widely known and promoted seems that by definition they are too heavily promoted to qualify.

Also, politicians almost inevitably have enough detractors to be Base Breaking Characters, exempting them.

I question if Ensemble Dark Horse can work in real life since it dosen't offer any way to distinguish minor characters from major (it seems being a Darkhorse immediately makes them too "major" to be a Darkhorse by this wiki's use), or distinguishing them from Base Breaking Characters. Any thoughts on that?

The second thought seems wrong to me: Politicians tend to have widely varying approval ratings. Or at the very least there is no proof for such a contention.

We've got more additions to Memes.US Politics that may be knee jerk or inaccurate. What happened to our considering locking the page?

There's some stuff in the RL folder on Country Matters about the "I love country music" t-shirt/bumper sticker involving Hillary Clinton. Pretty sure that should get zapped under ROCEJ.

edited 29th Sep '17 7:47:39 AM by Theatre_Maven_3695

Yeah, that's not a work of fiction, so I think it can be cut.

Zapped.

Regarding this...

I posted a few months after having first added that then reading this thread. Figured commenting it out would dissuade others from adding something similar.

Madrugada's response literally says to "Delete them." I'm not seeing where the idea of "comment them out" comes from.

Not sure how I feel about this Harsher in Hindsight example from YMMV.Pocahontas, since it doesn't directly mention Trump anywhere.

• The blatantly heavy lines "they're not like you and me, which means they must be evil" and "they're different from us, which means they can't be trusted" has frequently been mocked for its Anvilicious nature. Come 2016 and legions of anti-immigration tweets are even more explicit in their beliefs.

Sounds like shoehorning to me. There's no real connection.

Agreed that it could be cut. Having seen the film, I don't see any connection beyond the superficial. And it seems like a weird general "example" (weird in the sense that it's for a YMMV "trope").

I found one on YMMV.Adam Ruins Everything.

• Hilarious in Hindsight: The episode "Adam Ruins the Economy" has Adam explaining falsehoods behind people saying unemployment is lowering, plus the flaws in business and manufacturing. Just one day after the episode aired, Donald Trump tweeted this. It was probably just coincidence, but it's definitely amusing and looked as though Trump had seen the episode.

While the trope used makes it cutworthy by default. I wanted to make sure before going though with it.

On a side note the example in question was added 2 days ago

edited 8th Oct '17 5:37:06 PM by MorningStar1337

Whatever other issues or merits it may have, as currently written it violates Weblinks Are Not Examples.