The Toonami Thread

Step 4: give us more intra- and inter-squad interaction beyond the Black Bulls

As unlikeable as the Silva family is, I can't disagree with the sentiment that the banter between the various captains goes quite a way in making the ensemble as a whole one of the more enjoyable parts of Black Clover (a point also espoused by Gigguk two times now).

It's quite amusing (to me and at least one other person) to see Charlotte try and fail to hide her affection for Yami with bombastic lies like "The battlefield is my only lover!", and she later ends up getting challenged to a drinking match by Vanessa since they both like Yami—one she loses in short order.

In a far more serious instance, Fuegoleon quickly calls out Nozel after he tries to attack Asta for calling out the more reprehensible nobles at the Valor Ceremony, reassures Noelle of her worth when she expresses doubt in herself, and shows respect for Asta's tenacity and willpower, firmly cementing him as not just a foil to Nozel in the sense of an Elemental Rivalry and overall temperament, but also a truly outstanding man who is able to inspire others (to the point that him being put into a coma had a multitude of characters, including Nozel, vowing vengeance against Licht).

Now, all you have to do is develop that further. This goes back to what I was saying about how one-dimensional characters can be at times, but expand the scope of this kind of back and forth to cover more characters. The Black Bulls are the "main" squad, so it's not like they can't afford to give up some screen time for the sake of providing more focus for the other Magic Knights. I'll give a few examples.

In the actual canon, Yuno garners little respect from most of the other knights in the Golden Dawn because of his commoner background, but it's strange that he doesn't have much of a rapport—or anything in the way of a working relationship—with fellow squadmate Mimosa, considering how Mimosa admires her cousin Noelle for how hard she's willing to work in order to restore her standing with the Silva family. Perhaps Mimosa could point out yet another similarity between Yuno and Noelle.

Leopold, Fuegoleon's younger brother and the "Asta" of the Crimson Lion Kings, declared himself Asta's rival yet there's nothing so far to show for it. (Heck, without Asta around, you can practically substitute in Leopold for Asta if you want to do the typical Red Oni, Blue Oni shtick.)

Maybe Sol would look far better than the misandrist she usually comes across as (one who is no brighter than the "foolish" men she constantly berates, no less) if presented with an opportunity to realize "Hey, you guys aren't half-bad. Maybe I shouldn't make such sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people." At the very least, it'd be nice to see if the reason for her low opinion of men held any water. (And perhaps someone could blow her mind by calling to attention the fact that the head honcho the entire kingdom is—gasp—a man.)

Maybe Gueldre's "shocking betrayal" during the capital's invasion by the Eye of the Midnight would actually mean something if the story bothered to show him more than once before this revelation.

And does anyone even remember that Dorothy Unsworth (the captain of the Coral Peacocks) exists? Is she ever going to wake up from her seemingly eternal sleep?

You know how the Soul Society arc of Bleach devoted time to showing the inner workings of the Gotei 13, including the idiosyncrasies of several seated officers and the tension/dysfunction between various squads, all of which played into the intensifying complexity of Rukia's imprisonment and the apparent murder mystery? Basically, do that. It'd be one of few times I wouldn't take umbrage at Black Clover for blatantly copying another series.

Step 5: delete Gauche

I had considered making this Step 1, but I held off.

Seriously, what is the point of this character? It's telling when Gray's impersonation of Gauche makes for a better character than the real Gauche. I've heard that he's rather popular as a character, and I cannot understand why. He's one of the bigger jerks of the cast (though not quite at the level of the Silvas) and barely gets along with anyone in his own squad, to say nothing of how obsessed he is with his own sister, to the point of getting nosebleeds and trying to kill Asta in his sleep because Marie expressed a childlike infatuation with the boy.

The worst part is that, if you removed the thinly veiled incestuous desires for his sister, Gauche could be a mildly interesting character. Not an original one, as the Knight Templar [insert relative here] trope isn't exactly new, but he has story potential as an ex-criminal who has valid reasons for his previous lifestyle and certain facets of his personality and now is willing to do anything for the only person in the world he truly cares for. That sounds like the markings of a Token Evil Teammate, or at least someone who's hardened, cynical, and ruthless enough to immediately take the most morally questionable action if the situation calls for it. Of course, that's assuming one remembers to expand upon his character and character dynamics outside of his unhealthy fixation on his sister.

Man this fights are exhausting.

Consecutive boss rushe arcs is like when Bleach did consecutive rescue arcs.

When is it gonna end?

Step 6: address any sociopolitical issues with actual thought and nuance

Black Cover has a recurring problem when it comes to the principle of "Show, Don't Tell", even when it actually carries out the "show" part. For example, we see numerous times throughout that magic is so heavily ingrained into society that it's used for incredibly menial tasks all the time, in turn making the repeated use of "magic is everything" superfluous.

One of the worst examples is how the series treats the class issues within the Clover Kingdom. Usually, this boils down to "Asta says it's bad, therefore it's bad" and whenever Asta gets up on a soapbox to ham-fistedly dress down the "bad nobles" (usually the Silvas), I find myself taking his side by default because he's up against characters who are cartoonishly evil or utterly devoid of redeeming qualities, not because of the validity of whatever message he's delivering. That's not how you do a thought-provoking discourse of the world's state of affairs.

Another problem is that the generally implied theme of "nobility/royalty = bad" doesn't hold up when you have a substantial number of people belonging to that upper rung of society who are legitimately good souls.

Noelle starts out as a girl who doesn't realize how good she has it as a noble (and had some elitist underpinnings early on, likely due to her upbringing) and develops into a person who decides it's her job to fight for anyone in need, even those beneath her on the societal ladder, because she's a blue blood.

Vanessa, who we all know as the "big sister" of the Black Bulls, outright denounces their ties to their mother, the Witch Queen, in favor of their new family.

Mimosa, despite proudly bearing the name of a Vermillion, has a clear disdain for how the nobles value talent over hard work, a major factor in why she idolizes and supports Noelle's endeavors.

The Vermillion family as a whole shows nothing but cordiality to their associates regardless of status and believes anyone can become a Magic Knight so long as they continually apply themselves. Fuegoleon in particular shows no signs of being a Noble Bigot, is a Reasonable Authority Figure surpassed only by perhaps the Wizard King himself, and does a far better job of being a sibling figure to Noelle than her actual immediate family (which can also be said of his sister Mereoleona).

And on the subject of Julius, he befriended Yami while the latter was dealing with a rather nasty case of xenophobia in his backstory and is a kindly monarch who takes personal interest in the well-being and talents of his kingdom's youth. He also knows full well of the societal problems facing the Clover Kingdom (as evidenced by his succinct analysis of why the Black Bulls are comprised of various outcasts in stark contrast to the other squads and his multiple stealth insults to several nobles during the Valor Ceremony) and is an advocate of equality among the populace, which is why there's a ranking system among the guilds to begin with: to give anyone a chance to be recognized for their abilities no matter their background.

Black Clover needs to explore the pros and cons of the current societal structure instead of telling us that "this is wrong" without providing any evidence to back up the argument. And it's not like this is a hard task to accomplish.

Why not have Noelle accompany Yuno back home during some time off from the job so she can see how hard those of low-born status have to work just to scrap by, even with Yuno sending most of his paycheck to the orphanage? ^* Though there's no canonical confirmation that I know of, it's hard to believe Yuno isn't also financially providing for the orphanage like Asta is.

Why not have the Fuegoleon/Nozel rivalry stem in part from wildly differing opinions of the place of commoners in the guilds, showing the difficulties of two people who respect one another yet cannot come to an agreement?

Why not have the more upstanding members of nobility/royalty come to the realization that the system is flawed but they have the power and influence to perhaps change it for the better from the inside?

If Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia can give an introspective, multifaceted look into this very same issue in the span of a single DLC dialogue chain, there's no excuse for why Black Clover can't do the same over the course of an entire series. And having Yuno being the one in the driver's seat means there's a good chance he'd do a better job at selling his side of the debate, since he'd be bluntly cutting people down to size instead of the loud but oftentimes shallow lectures on morality Asta likes to give.

And with that, this long spiel has finally come to an end. As much time as I spent mulling over all of this, I'm not sure I was able to properly convey all my thoughts on the matter, but hopefully you'll find it an adequate effort. I'm looking forward to any feedback from anyone daring enough to read this in its entirety.

Here are the links to each individual post for anyone interested.

• Overview & Step 1
• Step 1 (con't.)
• Step 2
• Step 2a
• Step 2b
• Step 3
• Step 4
• Step 5
• Step 6

Edited by X2X on Nov 10th 2018 at 1:33:04 PM

@X 2 X, not that it's actually out of place here, but I sort of feel posting all of that in the actual Black Clover thread would be better.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 10th 2018 at 12:31:57 PM

Yeah @X 2 X you should really post all that in Black Clover forum too.

It’s kinda hard to read your posts which all look very interesting & well-written while I’m trying to watch the show at the same time.

I like can’t provide any actual response until after Hunter x Hunter.

Good job though.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:31:53 AM

Really interesting stuff, X 2 X.

Yeah, they're all good points. :)

@X 2 X: My thoughts on Gauche; I'd be ok with putting up with this ass hat if they did one change (well, two, but we all know what) after the ark, the Black Bulls kick him out. Remember, Gauche abandoned the group just for his sister. Regardless of his... motives, no one should be allowed to abandon their team. I don't care if he got a change of heart, what he did was utter BS. Hell, he could have had a good redemption ark trying to regain everyone's trust or something.

Anyway, Hunter Hunter. Time for Super Sayain Kiliua.

Holy shit.

It's Ultra Instinct Killua.

Thanks, everyone. I tried.

@ LSBK & slim: Good idea. I'll get around to eventually posting this in the actual Black Clover thread. Probably not tonight, though; spending the better portion of the last few days typing that all up and then posting it all here took quite a bit out of me.

Yeah, he does look like Vegeta with white hair.

About time Bloster shot the door.

@Orion Yeah I do really dislike how no one appropriately reacts to Gauche being an asshole. I consider him a Karma Houdini because he basically goes unpunished for his abohorrent behavior especially in the Licht arc where he’s at his worst.

Huh octopus vs lobster, place your bets.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:42:00 AM

Hey, slim? Is the "Black Clover Manga Thread" also a catch-all for the anime, or is it strictly manga-only? I figure you'd know since you've posted there before.

My money is on Sebastian Blue.

Edited by X2X on Nov 10th 2018 at 1:43:58 PM

So much octopus drama.

An accurate summary of the Octo Expansion from Splatoon 2.

By the way. Ikalgo is a corpse-puppeteer with a built-in ability to create a sniper rifle, but he's never taken a life before?

@X 2 X Well someone started an anime thread when the anime began but no one actually used so it was basically dead on arrival & keep in mind this was over a year ago when the anime came out so it’s pretty much 💀 at this point.

So it be better to just post it in the main thread which has become for both mediums though mostly manga admitably.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:49:48 AM

How can Bloster have popped veins? Aren't they made of exoskeletons?

@ slim: Got it. Thanks.

This stage of the Octo Expansion is pretty intense

You let Bloster live, test failed.

Man, I can't wait to see what Togashi does for Splatoon 3.