Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

IIRC Fandom Heresy was off-page examples only until a failed TRS ended up bringing them back. I wonder if it’s attracting complaining again like what happened to Bile Fascination.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Does anyone else think that the part in Oral Tradition saying people had to ask for "rambling old farts" to tell stories is extremely gratuitous?

Edited by good-morning on Mar 17th 2023 at 9:19:40 AM

oh hey how are you doing?

I agree that's excessive and even disrespectful to old storytellers. Feel free to Reword it.

EDIT: It's even worse than I thought. This needs a serious reworking.

Edited by AegisP on Mar 16th 2023 at 9:02:41 AM

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Yeah, this entire paragraph should probably go or get rewritten.

"Nowadays, you kids with your new-fangled "writing" and "movies" tend to think of Oral Tradition as a medium of the past. But even in the most literate and high-tech cultures, stories, beliefs, ideas, and jokes continue to circulate orally as long as people continue talking to each other face-to-face or via telephone. Online social networking will have to become even more omnipresent before Oral Tradition really dies as a medium."

x5: The entire folder for "Video Games - General" should really be axed. The two entries you highlighted reek of bigotry encouragement, and that's a big red flag that they have no business on the page.

Personally, the entire trope looks like it should be definition-only or Flame Bait, but that'd require bringing up a TRS again.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

IDK, the Oral Tradition article looks fine to me. It's very clearly tongue-in-cheek, and I don't even see the problem with the paragraph you linked — you guys seriously don't think TV Tropes is genuinely dismissing kids who like writing and movies?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

It comes off as very tired, very unneccessary snark. It's not funny or clever, it's just "hee-hee, old people talk goofy." It gets in the way of actually describing what the page is supposed to be about.

Does it? Because it's literally just a couple of lines in an otherwise straightforward article, which seem to also be partly reflecting how the tradition is depicted in media (i.e. as a Rambling Old Man Monologue). In fact, the paragraph you're citing as bashy is actually defending oral tradition's persistence into the modern age.

Eh, sometimes, but sometimes the tone of the article itself — or in this case just a few lines — parodies its reputation.

Y'all can do what you want, I just think you're seeing editorializing where there is none. Because the "newfangled" comment is very blatantly tongue-in-cheek and sarcastic, and the Rambling Old Man Monologue might be a little mean, but the rest of the article clearly respects the medium of oral tradition, so I assumed that it led off with the stereotypical image of oral tradition in media and then delved into it more accurately. And besides those two lines the article is very straightforward.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:30:05 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

It is very disrespectful. I dont feel any funny or fun or even just lighthearted vibes, to me it's just bashy and assumes a lot about the reader.

I hate doing this because I respect you mighty, but if three people see something wrong in this maybe there actually is something wrong.

EDIT: Here is the opening paragraph.

• Once, before film, before printing, before even writing, all stories were spread by word of mouth alone. If you wanted a story, you had to get some old fart to actually sit down at a fire and tell you, and you usually had to put up with a lot of tangential rambling, too. Most of the oldest stories have their roots in this ancient storytelling medium.

Edited by AegisP on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:20:01 PM

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

correct me if i’m wrong but don’t we usually save those kind of examples for Self Demonstrating articles?

i mean i wouldn’t complain if the example is axed or rewritten or left alone, i get the ‘crusty old boomer’ bit it’s going for. but i figure the more “in character” examples are usually saved for there.

Edited by worldwidewoomy on Mar 17th 2023 at 2:30:14 PM

Stan GaruKaru for clear skin

Trivia.Dragonball Evolution

• Star-Derailing Role: This film effectively killed Justin Chatwin's film career, not just by being a disaster of a film, but because his casting was and still is one of the film's most controversial elements. While whitewashing the original manga's Asian-based lead for the film was already met with disdain upon its initial release, growing regard for representation in the years since has led the general public to accuse Hollywood of perpetuating a work culture excluding non-white ethnicities from appearing on screen. The fact that another manga-based blockbuster, Ghost in the Shell (2017), would later be criticized for making the same mistake by casting a white actress as the explicitly Japanese lead, hasn't helped matters.

Is it me, or does this feel more like a rant about whitewashing than a Star-Derailing Role entry? I also checked the TV Tropes page for the actor in question and it seems like he still gets many roles in movies? Is it referring to top billing specifically?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:47:05 PM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

This is definitely more a rant about white washing. Feel free Cut or reword.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

From Trivia.Uncanny Avengers, where it was added way back in 2013 -

It's the only trope on the page.

Firstly, I think it's stretching the Recycled Script trope to its limits, if not actually misuse. Secondly, it's really negative.

I'm inclined to cutlist the page, as there's nothing else there to save. Thoughts?

I've reworked some of the wording on Oral Tradition, including cutting the phrases about "old farts" and "rambling". How does it look?

Given this comment and other comments like "I did not invent the complaint" later in your post, please could you double-check my post as you're not correctly recalling it.

I stated that your entry was written with the administrivia issues of complaining and wall of text. I also stated that the issue it was trying to capture was legitimate, and already had a better entry under Misaimed Fandom, which was the more appropriate location because it's about a clash between fans and creators over the vision and scope of the show — that's what Misaimed Fandom exists to capture, but Franchise Original Sin does not.

To expand on why I said Misaimed Fandom was more appropriate:

• The fan issue: The work is called "RWBY", the original four trailers were about Team RWBY, the non-RWBY main cast and secondary casts are stealing their spotlight, the show needs to strip both the main and secondary cast right back and make the story predominantly about Team RWBY.
• The creators' response: That was never the intention of the show, it was always supposed to be a bigger story with an ensemble cast, so that's how the show is written.
• Franchise Original Sin: A work contains a flaw that's existed since the beginning that fans initially have no problems with. At some point during the work's run, the fan attitude changes and the flaw now becomes intolerable.
• Misaimed Fandom: The creator's vision of their work clashes with the fans' vision of the work. What the fans want the show to be and what the creator wants the show to be are completely at odds with each other.

The complaint we're discussing has existed since beginning of the show (it began when the third trailer dropped, before the pilot even aired), has never been tolerated ("mis-selling" backlash began after just a few episodes), and is about an incompatible clash between fan vision and creator vision. That's Misaimed Fandom, not Franchise Original Sin.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 17th 2023 at 6:48:08 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

From Helluva Boss.

• Sacred Cow: Due the series status as an indie cartoon and its LBGTQ+ representation, many of its fans tend to get very defensive against criticisms towards the show. This is to the point that anyone criticizing the show (rather on social media or by posting a video critique of the show) is likely to be attacked by fans.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this trope is for works that are near-universally beloved by the mainstream to the point where any hate they have is a minority. It feels like this example was added to complain about HB having an overly-defensive fandom.

Thank you dvx! That rewording of Oral Tradition is awesome. It's more formal and respectful while also keeping some of the more palatable snark mightymewtron wanted to keep intact. Good job!

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I haven't watched HB lately for personal reasons but it's not a sacred cow. For every rabid fan who adores the show there's another hater who doesn't, and I know from personal experience that Viv and her works have a very vocal hatedom. I think it can go.

I don't think the show is that big for it to have Sacred Cow status. But personally, that line in there doesn't sit well with me. It has "This is a bad show and is only popular for being woke" vibes

Edited by ElBuenCuate on Mar 17th 2023 at 4:44:01 AM

I agree with that. Lets edit that one out then.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Yeah Sponge has a point, HB and its sister show have a large Hatedom, and are hardly candidates for Sacred Cow. Cut.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Oral Tradition is much better and more respectful now, thank you dvx105! I hadn't found time to reword it yet. I also liked the image you chose.

Edited by good-morning on Mar 17th 2023 at 10:10:42 AM

oh hey how are you doing?

Yeah, Oral Tradition looks better. Changing the Self Demonstrating pothole also helps clarify the tone a lot.

I also agree Helluva Boss is not a Sacred Cow — anything Viv makes tends to be really controversial among fans and non-fans alike, and I was literally just watching videos by fans about the show's wasted potential, with many comments agreeing.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Now this thing from "Arabian Nights" Days really rubbed me the wrong way. This is straight from the description.

• Here, Baghdad is still a wondrous, glittering city full of magic and mystery, instead of a grungy, sprawling Third World metropolis with soldiers in Humvees battling guys in dynamite vests through the cobblestone streets. It's the Baghdad of Harun al-Rashid and his artistic and scientific legacy.

I hope I am not just imagining things here.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

I assumed it was just referring to the unflattering Qurac trope for contrast, but it's also wicked to Gulf War and The War on Terror so it is real life commentary... yikes.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.